Transmission and radiator issues - need advice

[KKT]

Hello all -
Recently had some work done on my '06 Renegade. Transmission and heater issues. Water pump replaced and now heat seems ok. Doesn't seem to get as hot as fast, but it's also colder out than it has been for a long time. Might just be expecting too much, because it does get very hot eventually. Just takes a few minutes.

Anyway, I've been parking over a big piece of cardboard to watch for trans leaks. Haven't seen anything so far. Tonight when I was looking around under there, noticed some spots under the front end - driver's side. Appears to be a coolant leak. Not sure when that started - the cardboard wasn't up quite far enough to catch it before. Doesn't seem to be a huge problem - spots are 2-3" at most. I can't seem to pinpoint where it's coming from, and they didn't say anything about it when they checked the cooling system and changed out the water pump.

Worried about this - have had a lot of work done recently and don't want to spend more money. Not going to pretend like I know a lot about this stuff (not a do-it-yourself-er for anything beyond basic, simple stuff). Transmission work is way out of my league, and I'm not even sure about the radiator. Can anybody help? What should I watch for re: the radiator (besides the obvious - temp light, huge puddles, etc.)? Re: the transmission (besides leaks, hard shifts, etc.?) It's automatic and has 4wd. The shift from 2hi to 4hi and back is smooth. I haven't had cause to take it into 4lo. Haven't noticed problems other than this leak since the work was done (few weeks ago).

Given that I just had the trans work done, I don't want to take it back to get checked again right away. They told me to keep an eye out for leaks and let them know right away, but I'm sure this isn't the trans. It's right up at the front, almost right under the grille (and a few small drips up to about a foot back). They had me bring it back for a quick routine check of the trans work just a few days ago and said everything looked fine. Of course I hadn't noticed this leak by then. But based on the spots on the garage floor and the way it looks under there, it's possibly been going on for awhile.

And side note, I'm worried. I spent a lot of money on the trans work, and now I'm afraid I made the wrong choice. Is this thing going to hold up, or am I in a downward spiral here? This is my first Jeep, so I don't know what to expect. Bought it because I needed something reliable and Jeep had a good rep. Thought that with fairly low miles, I could fix it and it would hold up for me. Now I don't know... Have had it for over 3 years and never had many problems until now. I love this Jeep and want to keep it, but not if it's going to eat me out of house and home! Advice? Thank you!

 

[02blue]

For the coolant leak check out the following thread. I'm assuming coolant. Keep an eye on the level. Don't want to overheat the 3.7. Trans fluid would be quite red, coolant orangeish. ATF4 has a distinct odor from coolant. The one image shows a common weak point near the upper right (drivers side) of the rad behind the flap:

http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f196/coolant-loss-55092/

I just replaced my rad recently and recommend a Mopar since they last longer.

Not sure what your trans issues were but I have the 45RFE and its been solid so far (02 w/160K). Watch for leaks is a given if anything was done to drop the pan. They don't use a gasket, just RTV, although last time I changed my fluid I found an aftermarket filter kit with a gasket (WIX).

Yours is an 06 so no too old. How many miles? Too many not good too few not good IMHO. I always felt that too few was worse than too many if the many were on a well maintained vehicle but tough to find that out most times.

All you can do now is take care of it and see how it goes.

I've had alot of vehicles over the years and 5 right now (98,01,02,08,11). I usually try to forget about that 77 Pinto driven off the showroom floor brand spankin new. Most current ones were bought used and some have or had highish miles. All different brands*, shapes and sizes (Ford/Sub/Jeep*/Toy/Dodge*). Just keep up the routine maintenance. I really like my Jeep but it's a 4WD and that requires a little extra attention/maintenance.

Of all vehicles I've had (15 total) I'd rank my Jeep in the top three for fun. Top three for do it yourself fixes and about top 5 for the non-money pit category.

BTW my best vehicle for worry free driving: Wife's 2008 Toy Sienna. Bought brand new, routine maintenance one battery change and one set of plugs a few weeks ago and >140k. BUT BORING AS HELL AND I CAN NEVER FIND IT IN A PARKING LOT.

I always find my Jeep.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

(welcome)

Good to have you on the forum. The trans work you described - if done by the dealer - should have some type of warranty with it. A drip here or there is nothing to worry about as it may be just a random bit if transmission fluid (ATF+4) that has dripped off the trans pan. If you see more than a drop or two then yes, take it back and have the tech track down the leak.

As for the radiator/coolant puddle...Unfortunately radiators in modern vehicles typically use plastic side tanks and aluminum cores - marrying them together so they never separate and start leaking is a challenge. In the Jeep, the upper radiator hose neck on the driver's side has a tendency to spring a pin-hole leak that drips down under the grill. The same type of leak can happen at the lower hose neck on the passenger side but it's less common. The coolant color can be orange-ish or even colorless depending on which coolant brand was used in the last maintenance (but it HAS to be HOAT-type coolant.) Place a mark or piece of tape or something noting the level of the coolant in the reservoir on the firewall (the white plastic container on the passenger side of the firewall) when the engine is cold. Check it frequently (when the engine is cold) to see if you're losing any coolant. If you are then it's probably coming from one of the spots noted above; if you can't see a change over the short term then just keep an eye on things until you notice a problem then have the cooling system pressure tested to find the source of the coolant loss.

The Jeep is a very reliable vehicle and there are many members here who have or are near 200,000 miles on their Libertys. Keep up on the regular maintenance like oil changes, fluid changes in the front and rear differentials and transfer case, coolant flushes, etc. and the Jeep will treat you well. Dive into your owner's manual to find the maintenance intervals - your Jeep will reward you with stellar service and a lot of fun to boot. No other vehicle on the road today can do the variety of things a Liberty can IMO :waytogo:

Bob

 

[tjkj2002]

18 years in the trade and can tell you in higher mileage vehicles once you plug one leak that system just finds the next weakest spot as a general rule.Also one leak and hide another.

 

[KKT]

Thank you for the quick replies! 75k miles, which worried me. That seems pretty low to be having transmission issues, especially on a Jeep. The transmission work does have a warranty on it, but like I said, I'm just leery of needing that kind of repair on a relatively low mile Jeep. I know someone who has an '06 sport with 160k miles and has never had issues like this.

I looked at it again a few minutes ago, and the same 4 or 5 drips I saw last night is all I see now. 2 or 3 drips right under the grille and another 2 right at the front left wheel. I didn't notice much of any color to the fluid when I touched it last night (hard to tell now that it's soaked into the cardboard), and almost no odor, which is why I assume it is coolant. I don't know what's in there (brand-wise) since I'm not the one who put it there. I do know that it's the proper type though, because they changed it out the first time I took it in for an oil change after I got it. Some joker used a universal (non-HOAT) kit and had the wrong fluid in there. So it's been right since at least '09. Not sure what all it went through before I got my hands on it, but I'm pretty ticked that it came from a dealer (non-Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, but still!) like that.

It's funny you mention that hose because that was my suspicion last night. I looked everywhere, but couldn't find where it was coming from. The coolant level is currently just a fraction of an inch below the cold fill line, and doesn't seem to be dropping. Rises when it's hot, so it seems to be working the way it's supposed to. I just can't find the stinking leak! They supposedly did a coolant-system check when they replaced the water pump, and they didn't mention anything. Honestly I have no idea how long it's been dripping - could have been awhile for all I know. I've never had temp issues, and the leak is so small it would have been easy to miss.

If you don't mind me asking, what did the new radiator set you back? I'm seriously hoping it's not going to come to that right now, but I would like to know what to expect in a worst-case scenario.

Speaking of fluids, though, could the wrong transmission fluid cause it to be damaged/fail? Because I don't know how long it was like that before I got it fixed ...

 

[02blue]

Thank you for the quick replies! 75k miles, which worried me. That seems pretty low to be having transmission issues, especially on a Jeep. The transmission work does have a warranty on it, but like I said, I'm just leery of needing that kind of repair on a relatively low mile Jeep. I know someone who has an '06 sport with 160k miles and has never had issues like this.

75k seems pretty good to me. If you had like 10-20k on it that's a bit low but around 10k per year seems resonable.

I looked at it again a few minutes ago, and the same 4 or 5 drips I saw last night is all I see now. 2 or 3 drips right under the grille and another 2 right at the front left wheel. I didn't notice much of any color to the fluid when I touched it last night (hard to tell now that it's soaked into the cardboard), and almost no odor, which is why I assume it is coolant. I don't know what's in there (brand-wise) since I'm not the one who put it there. I do know that it's the proper type though, because they changed it out the first time I took it in for an oil change after I got it. Some joker used a universal (non-HOAT) kit and had the wrong fluid in there. So it's been right since at least '09. Not sure what all it went through before I got my hands on it, but I'm pretty ticked that it came from a dealer (non-Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, but still!) like that.

I'd still keep an eye on that corner of the rad. Peel back the flap on the front and see if any runs.

It's funny you mention that hose because that was my suspicion last night. I looked everywhere, but couldn't find where it was coming from. The coolant level is currently just a fraction of an inch below the cold fill line, and doesn't seem to be dropping. Rises when it's hot, so it seems to be working the way it's supposed to. I just can't find the stinking leak! They supposedly did a coolant-system check when they replaced the water pump, and they didn't mention anything. Honestly I have no idea how long it's been dripping - could have been awhile for all I know. I've never had temp issues, and the leak is so small it would have been easy to miss.

If you don't mind me asking, what did the new radiator set you back? I'm seriously hoping it's not going to come to that right now, but I would like to know what to expect in a worst-case scenario.

I did the rad install myself 267 bucks from:

http://www.partswebsite.com/moparonlineparts/


Speaking of fluids, though, could the wrong transmission fluid cause it to be damaged/fail? Because I don't know how long it was like that before I got it fixed ...

Yes wrong T fluid very bad. Bad things will happen. The properties are very different for different t fluids and ATF4 is a very good synthetic fluid and meant to work with these trannys. Hopefully they did a good flush with your T service.

 

[KKT]

They told me they did. As soon as they spotted the non-HOAT they said "we gotta get this out of here and flush it." So like I said, that should have been okay for the last 3-4 years, but who knows how long they had the wrong stuff in there before that. I might have to give the dealer who sold it to me like that a piece of my mind! The transmission looks clean right now, no evidence of any problems there. I was trying to figure out how the two things could be connected, but I can't seem to come up with anything. I guess I just got lucky and had something else go wrong right away.

And I got a couple of pics of the leak. You can see the drips that made it to the ground on the cardboard. The cold fluid level (viewed from the side of the tank, definitely a bit low but doesn't seem to be dropping much since I've been watching it), and looking down inside (radiator is at the bottom of the pic (obviously) - note the small drip).

 

[02blue]

Looks pretty dark for coolant. May want to check you power steering system for that leak. It should take the ATF4 from the factory unless completely purged/flushed and switched to PS fluid. I have a 02 and pretty sure mine was mixed before I got it which is not good. I think the old ones like mine were PS fluid from the factory but someone topped with or used ATF4. They don't mix well.

I got the coolant flush part but I thought you had ****** work done on your vehicle? If yes then hopefully they flushed the ****** too. No correlation between cooling system and ****** unless the transmission fluid cooler or lines are leaking. If they put the wrong coolant in then chances are good they mixed T fluids too.

 

[02blue]

Also, check the front upper corner of the radiator. Plastic part on driverside where the flexible rubber flap is.

Trans cooler lines into radiator are on passenger side so probably not that.

Look to see if Power Steering reservoir is filled with red fluid or clear. Red is ATF4 clear is Power steering fluid. If its Brown and can't tell may want to have that flushed by a dealer ASAP.

 

[Cardhu]

Looks like a leak on the hose going into steering rack. also pressure wash was that oil off the rack and pinion bushings once your done the repair.

 

[KKT]

The drips at the front are almost clear - the ones at the back look darker. I can't tell if it's different fluid or just dirtier back there. Planning to clean it off and keep a close eye on it. It's really cold here right now and I hate to try to clean it off when it's this cold out. Might have to bite the bullet and just do it anyway. Not panicking yet since they only finished the repairs about a week ago. Waiting on some final information and then I can post about what all was done exactly. Just don't know how long it will take to get a reply on that. I wish I would have had more time to make decisions, but this is my only vehicle and I have to be able to drive or I can't even get to work, so I didn't have a lot of time to consider my options - just had to fix it.

Pulled out the invoices and it says they used Mopar4 fluid in the ****** and flushed it. It better not be the PS. They literally JUST worked on all that stuff and didn't say a thing about it. I have been using the same shop for 16 years and they have always been 100% up front about everything they find. They will say "you need to fix this NOW, it isn't safe", or "we found this and wanted to let you know it's going to need taken care of soon", and even "you're going to have to start thinking about whether you want to keep this one, it's getting to the point where it's going to need a couple grand in repairs every year."

I"m trying to learn about this stuff so I can be more hands-on with it, but this big stuff is way out of my comfort zone. Thank you all for the replies - super helpful!

 

[02blue]

It's tough when it's your only vehicle. I remember years ago changing U joints on a 77 LTD wagon in the dark on a Jan night in Northern PA with my dad so he could get to work the next day.

Just keep an eye on all the fluid levels as you should anyway. Looks and sounds like minor leaks. These things happen and as long as you don't let a level drop too far usually no problem. I'll kkep an eye on the thread since I'd like to see what info you find. Could be a little leak here and a little leak there. May be coolant from one spot and ATF from another. Watch for big leaks.

Do check the power steering though. Often neglected fluid.

Also, If you've found a good shop and trust them that's a great thing. You still should always find out exactly what they've done. Just for your own piece of mind. I have one dealer and one independent in my area that I trust and use them when something is beyond my skill set. I try to do my own stuff to save money. There are good dealerships and shops out there and it sounds like you've got a good one.

This forum and others like it are a great resource for troubleshooting and general info. I'm no mechanic but I've learned alot from the regulars on these sites and I'm not afraid to get pretty dirty. Been playing with vehicles for about 35 years and I still mess up from time to time.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Looks like a leak on the hose going into steering rack. also pressure wash was that oil off the rack and pinion bushings once your done the repair.

I agree with Cardu. There is power steering fluid on one of the hoses under the power steering pump and your driver's side lower control arm has a dark, oily sheen on it. Very likely the nut holding the hose to the pump just needs tightened. I thought I'd blown my PS pump last winter but when I power washed everything away and then got my hands under there I could turn the nut with my fingers. Got a wrench on it to tighten it up and it's been fine ever since.

With vehicle maintenance, look to the simple and easy stuff first. We all tend to think the worst when in fact it is a relatively easy fix. Reach under there and try to tighten that nut or take it to the shop you work with. I'm sure he can just put a wrench on there and tell you in a heartbeat whether it's tight or not or whether you need to replace that hose.

Again, if you notice clear fluid on the cardboard it is 99% sure to be coolant. Since you're not noticing a drop in the reservoir just keep watching it and the cardboard - whenever you notice a significant change have the system checked over.

Bob

 

[KKT]

Thanks - I'll have to check on the nut tomorrow. It's frustrating because it's so fraking cold out that I can't really tell anything. Hard to tell if the fluid slick or not when there's so much snow melting down there. It doesn't have much of an odor to it either, again maybe due to all the water it could potentially be mixing with. I set some white paper on the cardboard to see if the drip any color to it, but there's a ton of melting snow running off right now so that didn't tell me anything.

Good news is that the coolant level doesn't seem to be dropping, nor does the PS fluid. I guess now it's just a waiting game. The guys at the shop said bring it back any time and they will check on it for me, but I don't want to rely on them all the time. This should be simple enough to figure out...I hope!

We only made it to single digits here today (felt like below zero most of the day with the windchill), so it's not like I can just go out and clean everything off. Would be so much easier to see what's going on if I could clean it up!

 

[KKT]

And I believe we have a winner - it appears that the auto transmission cooling lines are failing. I haven't seen it myself, but they said that they are seeing leaking from around where the rubber is crimped. There goes another 400 bucks. Stupid dealer-only parts!!!

 

[ivantate]

I just replied to an old thread on replacing the pipes as I had to do it a couple of weeks ago due to the crimp failing. They are 160ish for parts only.
Its a nasty job to do, I got it done in the couple of warmer days over the christmas hols but otherwise you would need a day to it and only fairly basic tools. I jacked the car up to get more clearance to get the front propshaft off.
If its 400 fitted, given your situation and experience then that is pretty good and would be worth having done. If they are charging 400 for parts it might include all fluids or maybe the cooler too.

There are some threads on here about a bodge fix, flaring the pipes and using hose clamps. They seem to work ok so maybe your garage could do that as its a cheaper job.

Mine wasnt as bad as yours I dont think but didnt want it emptying when we were out in it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T217A using Tapatalk

 

[KKT]

They actually took a lot off of the price since they were just working on it recently. Only charged me for parts and half the labor. $265. HOWEVER, now it's leaking even worse! I just checked it cold, and the coolant is over half gone, and there is a HUGE puddle on the floor. I am SO done with this!!!

 

[dude1116]

They actually took a lot off of the price since they were just working on it recently. Only charged me for parts and half the labor. $265. HOWEVER, now it's leaking even worse! I just checked it cold, and the coolant is over half gone, and there is a HUGE puddle on the floor. I am SO done with this!!!

Where is the puddle this time? Front? Middle again? If it's in the front the things to check would be hoses, the radiator itself, and the water pump. I know you already got the water pump replaced...but crazier things have happened than a part failing right after replacement.

Do you see fluid around these areas?

Under driver's side of radiator:

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Top side of radiator, driver's side:

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I would take it right back to where you got it repaired if you find that it's not the radiator.