My KJ not holding Alignment -Specs Please!

[LibertyTC]

Basically the last shop to do alignment does not know what a KJ looks like or what specs it should be set at. I got my money back today. This is the 5th alignment since the OME/Bilstein/JBA4.5 & clevis install. Basically the Jeep does not want to hold an alignment for very long.
What should I be looking at for something bent/ball joints or is it just a lifted jeep thing going on here? New steering rack bushings installed as well.
I have beat on the jeep on and off road got it aligned (after 350 miles) and two weeks later just driving around a corner at 35 mph through the alignment out. How to check steering rack ? would that cause this problem? Now at around only 40 k miles.
Anyways I am going to take it in to another shop this time with the factory specs and hope it can get "straightened" out.
Should I ensure that my Lifted KJ should be set to the specs below and consider the caster set to 2.5-3 degrees?
42871[/ATTACH]"]

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[tommudd]

How do you know its not holding an alignment for very long?
Whats it doing wearing tires / pulling or what?

Its not a lifted Jeep thing, have never had any issues with mine since it was first lifted over 140,000 miles ago

Just remember that the Camber must be set as close to the center specs as possible, cross caster must be within 0.5 degrees and at least 2-3 degrees

 

[tjkj2002]

It's called settling.

From 17k to 68k my Jeep was lifted with the IFS.Over the course of those miles the alignment needed to be adjusted a total of 3 times.The 1st time was when the lift was installed,the coils never settled at all(SkyJacker pre-soft ride coils).The 2nd time was when I installed new LCA's,alignment was a must for that job.The last time was when I removed the whole front drivetrain and gained 1" of lift in the front.Besides that the alignment was checked about every 6 months and never budged and I beat it pretty hard here in CO and MOAB.

 

[LibertyTC]

Really I think the word is un-settling. So far I have had 5 alignments every 2000 miles.
It is either pulling or pushing. If u look at front of jeep sometimes one wheel is straight the other is out to lunch ,pointing out etc. The Wheel is centered at new alignment and then eventually is off to right or left a bit depending on the off track. Right now if you go around a right corner, it is stiff and you can let go of wheel and it does not want to return again straight easily....just WOW on highway, all over the road. Tire wear afraid to look, will have to move front to rear again.
So into another shop armed with OEM factory spec/info. THX TOM & TROY~!
Camber must be set as close to the center specs as possible, cross caster must be within 0.5 degrees and CASTER at least 2-3 degrees ( I think TOM you meant to say CASTER as above.) I sure hope the next shop does better this time in settings.
AT $115 or more with tax here this is getting stupid.

 

[Ry' N Jen]

You beat on your Jeep off road?
When?
Where?

 

[Ry' N Jen]

I drove your Liberty from Maple Ridge to Harrison Hot Springs, about 54 miles.
Your Liberty drove just fine. It didn't wander and the alignment wasn't off as you claim Tim!
Maybe you damaged something when you aired down from 38 psi to 32 psi and drove that high rate of speed of 30 mph on a road where Ryan was regularly hitting speeds of 50-60 miles per hour! :happy175:
Seriously dude?
There's nothing wrong with your Liberty other than the fact that you never drive it!

Jen

 

[rockymountain]

Really I think the word is un-settling. So far I have had 5 alignments every 2000 miles.
It is either pulling or pushing. If u look at front of jeep sometimes one wheel is straight the other is out to lunch ,pointing out etc. The Wheel is centered at new alignment and then eventually is off to right or left a bit depending on the off track. Right now if you go around a right corner, it is stiff and you can let go of wheel and it does not want to return again straight easily....just WOW on highway, all over the road. Tire wear afraid to look, will have to move front to rear again.
So into another shop armed with OEM factory spec/info. THX TOM & TROY~!
Camber must be set as close to the center specs as possible, cross caster must be within 0.5 degrees and CASTER at least 2-3 degrees ( I think TOM you meant to say CASTER as above.) I sure hope the next shop does better this time in settings.
AT $115 or more with tax here this is getting stupid.

if your wheel won't return on its own your caster is to blame, there is too much. that is, too much for the wheels to center themselves. You have to sacrifice more caster if you want the other important things to come in spec. Mine does this a little bit and it wasn't until I went to 22.5" in the front. I think each one has a sweet spot. Mine is below 22.5 and really more like 22 1/4". Any more than that I have the no return problem. Too much caster won't affect tire wear. Just make sure the cross caster is good.

Maybe the '04 has some issues, because I know mine is kind of temperamental too. who knows, Tom has an '04....

As long as I keep mine below 22.5 in front it is solid.

 

[rockymountain]

...one other thing, you have the boiler plates. I think this setup may have these issues. Seems like people with the franky top plates don't have as many issues, and I'm trying to figure out why.

Could there be some sort of advantageous difference in a franky setup that makes it better than the spacer plate?

 

[Ry' N Jen]

Our 2004 doesn't have any problems!
Holds an alignment just fine, unless we really beat on it off road.

 

[rockymountain]

Our 2004 doesn't have any problems!
Holds an alignment just fine, unless we really beat on it off road.

And you have a franky right?

 

[Ry' N Jen]

And you have a franky right?

Correct, we have a Frankenlift.

 

[tommudd]

...one other thing, you have the boiler plates. I think this setup may have these issues. Seems like people with the franky top plates don't have as many issues, and I'm trying to figure out why.

Could there be some sort of advantageous difference in a franky setup that makes it better than the spacer plate?

Don't think so,
I ran regular OME lift with 3/8 inch top plates,( original top plates that someone "borrowed" the pattern to) clevis etc for 100,000 miles and no issues, plus all of the ones that have been done in my garage, again no issues. I now have 790 springs with all of the Franky parts and no issues Don't see any difference in the setups.
More like who ever is doing the alignments some care and do a great job, others close enough is good enough for them.

 

[LibertyTC]

I am thinking since I have top plate & clevis maybe I should try removing the conduits and just bring it down a bit before the next alignment.
Ryan ya you did drive the 50 miles on pavement the off road 100 miles or what ever it was ....I drove, and it too & seemed fine coming back out. However...the following weekend I went up past squamish and it started feeling a little wonky on the highway.
Another 100 miles or so and it was really bad so It is not good right now trust me. If you saw how the tires are pointing right now you would go what the F? it is way way out.
Another alignment shop saw it and went ya it is not good.
Here was the last aligned specs...not too good even though it felt ok originally....
42875[/ATTACH]"]

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Ry' N Jen]

We take ours to the local Chrysler dealership and have them do the alignment.
Never have any problems and offer us a 12 month 12000 mile warranty!

 

[tommudd]

Where are you height wise?

 

[LibertyTC]

Richmond Dealer offers 1 year on alignment? That is good. Going to call them.
I thought you had gone down to bellingham Firestone & got lifetime alignment cause dealership was charging $150 each time?
Honestly Ryan & Jen you dont have any alignment problems? Last time we were together Jen was stating that you needed to get another alignment.
Did you get another one done after the steering bushings work, I know mine needed it after the new bushings install.
With all the recent work on your jeep with locker's etc....I am sure you could use one again.
These jeeps are pain in the alignment department and do require it more often than most would like.

 

[LibertyTC]

Where are you height wise?

Just measured in dark Tom, about 22.3/8 each side now..not 22.75 anymore.

 

[tjkj2002]

42877[/ATTACH]"]

You must be registered for see images attach

So what vehicle are they using for the specs? Those are not KJ specs.You also got some funky rear toe issues with the left rear which doesn't make sense since that bad of LR toe should put the thrust angle way out of spec(AKA dog tracking).

 

[LibertyTC]

Thanks Troy for your input it is really appreciated. This shop's bay had big square mirrors being used, don't know if it is an older alignment bay or what, but I think they need to re-align their machine LOL...
What should I be looking for as far as shop is concerned? Alignment machine that is less than 5 years old? What should I be asking them before committing to getting work done?
One of the local dealerships here told me to go elsewhere because their machine is too old. When I called North Shore Off Road, they told me to get it done At Cal Tire as they are pro's and do all the lifted rigs...Just dont know anymore. I am beginning to believe it is not the machines but the tech's knowledge to set it up right. Right now my jeep is FUBAR in the alignment department and it's next trip has to be in to be re-aligned,

 

[cplchris]

these should be correct specs for alignment on a kj....at least for my 06 sport:
FRONT SUSPENSION
CASTER


Preferred: 3.9°±0.5°

Range: 3.4°to +4.4°

Max RT/LT Difference: 0.5°

CAMBER


Preferred: -0.375°±0.375°

Range: -0.750°to 0°

Max RT/LT Difference: 0.7°

TOTAL TOE-IN


Preferred: 0.2°±0.125°

Range: +0.075°to +0.325°

Max RT/LT Difference: 0.13°

REAR SUSPENSION
CAMBER


Preferred: -0.25°±0.375°

Range: -0.625°to 0.125°

THRUST ANGLE


Preferred: 0°to ±0.25°

Range: -0.25°to ±0.25°

TOTAL TOE-IN


Preferred: 0.25°to ±0.41°

Range: -0.16°to 0.66°

someone correct me if im wrong and ill remove these from the thread to avoid confusion