Debating a lift.

[teeje]

lifted , yes

check Belle Tire, Goodyear etc , I know they are all in Toledo

Okay if I'm going the 2" spring lift I'll go with those then which are available

So basically all I need are those springs and shocks then?

927 for front, 948 for rear and bilsetin shocks? Can someone link a good place to get these? I'll lift first then get my tires

 

[teeje]

Not sure if editing my original post will update as an unread post for any of you? But the only things I'll need are the springs and shocks correct?


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[tommudd]

Okay if I'm going the 2" spring lift I'll go with those then which are available

So basically all I need are those springs and shocks then?

927 for front, 948 for rear and bilsetin shocks? Can someone link a good place to get these? I'll lift first then get my tires

Www.jeepinbyal.com
Can also check www.shockwarehouse.com for the shocks, rears are 99 to 04 dodge dakota 4x4,
But JBA has them as well
Also grab 2 Teraflex front bumpstops from JBA
THEN run to the mall and go to ***** Sporting Goods and grab 4 hockey pucks for the rear bumpstops, 2 per side

 

[ozone000]

I got everything from 4wheelparts.com without the extraordinary shipping costs that JeepinbyAl wanted to charge. Of course, you are much closer, but for me it was around a $100 price difference. Total invoice was $636.44

Don't forget to factor in the cost of an alignment or three. You will likely not be able to get it in spec, not for that price, anyway.

For me, the lift really only cost $250, because I needed new parts anyway. There is really only one spring lift price ($175 time two). It looks like you are spending more since you don't need to replace all your shocks at this time anyway.

You said your are "debating a 2" spring kit lift". If you have any doubts about getting one, I can say that I think I would rather have the $250 (cost of OME springs minus cost of Moog springs) in my pocket than on the Jeep. Maybe if I invested in the $400 A-arms and an extra $280 on full OME shocks it would behave better, but IMO either go full bore or don't go. What tommudd won't say flat out is that your suspension height (% droop, whatever you want to call it) will differ drastically from front to back causing erratic response to road variations, your caster alignment will be not be maintained, and your road handling will be degraded due to the higher center of gravity and suspension tuned for off-road. Not all things that can be fixed with more $$$.

Of course, depending on what you are used to driving and how you drive it you may not notice.

 

[Kal-El]

If you've done engine and mechanical work you can DEFINITELY do the springs and shocks on your KJ. Go over to the Lift Discussion section and read a couple of recent posts about how easy it was for a couple of newbies.

Bob

Roger that.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

I got everything from 4wheelparts.com without the extraordinary shipping costs that JeepinbyAl wanted to charge. Of course, you are much closer, but for me it was around a $100 price difference. Total invoice was $636.44

Don't forget to factor in the cost of an alignment or three. You will likely not be able to get it in spec, not for that price, anyway.

For me, the lift really only cost $250, because I needed new parts anyway. There is really only one spring lift price ($175 time two). It looks like you are spending more since you don't need to replace all your shocks at this time anyway.

You said your are "debating a 2" spring kit lift". If you have any doubts about getting one, I can say that I think I would rather have the $250 (cost of OME springs minus cost of Moog springs) in my pocket than on the Jeep. Maybe if I invested in the $400 A-arms and an extra $280 on full OME shocks it would behave better, but IMO either go full bore or don't go. What tommudd won't say flat out is that your suspension height (% droop, whatever you want to call it) will differ drastically from front to back causing erratic response to road variations, your caster alignment will be not be maintained, and your road handling will be degraded due to the higher center of gravity and suspension tuned for off-road. Not all things that can be fixed with more $$$.

Of course, depending on what you are used to driving and how you drive it you may not notice.

Not sure I follow what you're saying...

With a full spring lift - i.e. replacing all four springs with the same brand - you will get the same rake as a stock Liberty. Therefore the caster will stay at factory settings and you won't have wandering and other issues you describe.

Will the center of gravity be higher? Yes, the Jeep is lifted 2 inches. The erratic response you mention confuses me - the bagged factory suspension caused me significant on-road and highway concerns. The Jeep bounced all over the bloody road.

I'd have to go back and look at your thread but if you went with Moogs in front and OME in back - and mixed the shock brands too - then what you're experiencing with your Liberty is understandable. The Moogs I would guess are much 'softer' in response (especially if you also have the Moog shocks) than the OME springs would be. And I'm sure the rake makes the Jeep look like a funny car - not good.

That's why the recommendation on doing a full kit when you upgrade the suspension. In other words, go all-Moog, or all-OME or Ironman or whatever. In most cases mixing and matching will make for an unstable ride - and that's been my experience in ANY vehicle I've had.

A good alignment tech should have no trouble getting the Jeep in factory spec - especially with a spring lift with no add-ons. A spring-only lift will actually take the Jeep just a little over factory ride height anyway - that ain't no biggie for a qualified technician. In fact without a clevis lift and a spacer on top of the shock tower in front and an extra isolator in the rear I doubt most techs will even know it's lifted - they'll just see that the springs are new. No biggie...

Bob

 

[tommudd]

I got everything from 4wheelparts.com without the extraordinary shipping costs that JeepinbyAl wanted to charge. Of course, you are much closer, but for me it was around a $100 price difference. Total invoice was $636.44

Don't forget to factor in the cost of an alignment or three. You will likely not be able to get it in spec, not for that price, anyway.

For me, the lift really only cost $250, because I needed new parts anyway. There is really only one spring lift price ($175 time two). It looks like you are spending more since you don't need to replace all your shocks at this time anyway.

You said your are "debating a 2" spring kit lift". If you have any doubts about getting one, I can say that I think I would rather have the $250 (cost of OME springs minus cost of Moog springs) in my pocket than on the Jeep. Maybe if I invested in the $400 A-arms and an extra $280 on full OME shocks it would behave better, but IMO either go full bore or don't go. What tommudd won't say flat out is that your suspension height (% droop, whatever you want to call it) will differ drastically from front to back causing erratic response to road variations, your caster alignment will be not be maintained, and your road handling will be degraded due to the higher center of gravity and suspension tuned for off-road. Not all things that can be fixed with more $$$.

Of course, depending on what you are used to driving and how you drive it you may not notice.

WHAT ?????? Man talk about taking someones words and twisting them up till you only have a terrible soup . Geez
You are so very wrong about so many things but now confusing others as well.
IF you use say all 4 OME springs you will have the same height front to rear
IT will NOT cause erratic response to road variations
ROAD handling will be far better not degraded due to higher center of gravity
Doesn't cost anything more
We've done enough lifts here to know what the pros and cons are
and what you are describing is simply not true at all and am sure many others feel the same way

Then jeepinbyal does not make anything on shipping, the cost is what it is from point A to point B
Maybe we can take up a collection and buy your parts back so you can install your worn out parts back on and be happy:mwah1::happy175::Bye:

 

[ozone000]

WHAT ?????? Man talk about taking someones words and twisting them up till you only have a terrible soup . Geez

No one has said these things, that was my point.

You are so very wrong about so many things but now confusing others as well.
IF you use say all 4 OME springs you will have the same height front to rear

You will have the same ride height, yes, but not the same suspension height. As an expert, tom, I'm sure you know the difference and indeed the actual spec, but for others that do not know it is the ratio, generally expressed as a percentage, of travel distances, numerator being distance from ride height to full droop and denominator being full travel distance. For the 927s without an extended bumpstop that figure is about 17% per my measurement,. If you tack the extended bumpstop on there the number will go up, but only because travel is reduced, the 1 inch of droop is the same. That accounts for a droop of 1 inch on a travel of 6 inches. That's little enough to cause loss of tire contact on road variations and incidentally the reason you recommend longer shocks on the rear. If you think about it, if you need longer shocks on the rear for x amount of lift, you need the same amount longer shocks on the front too, and for the exact same reason. Stock is about 55% for front and rear. 948 with Durango shocks give about a 50% suspension height for the rear.

IT will NOT cause erratic response to road variations

Different suspension heights will cause the front to respond differently (erratic) to rears on the same bump (variation). Maybe not all the time, but that just makes it more erratic. Good luck finding anywhere that recommends two different suspension heights. Honestly, I should have known better. Smelled wrong from the start, but "expert" and "many unnamed people" got to me, I guess.

ROAD handling will be far better not degraded due to higher center of gravity

What?! You cannot be serious right now! Lower COG always gives better handling, which is why race cars are lower than RVs, sports cars are lower than sedans, and Jeep engineers lowered the COG in 2003 to prevent rollovers!

Doesn't cost anything more

Never said it did. Not sure even what "it" is here.

We've done enough lifts here to know what the pros and cons are and what you are describing is simply not true at all and am sure many others feel the same way

Then please tell us what you believe the cons are because it seems like you say it will be all cornflakes and candycanes, the higher the better!

Then jeepinbyal does not make anything on shipping, the cost is what it is from point A to point B

Who said otherwise?

Maybe we can take up a collection and buy your parts back so you can install your worn out parts back on and be happy:mwah1::happy175::Bye:

I'll keep the front shocks, but I'd let everything else go for $450...price may or may not lower as I try to make the most of the lemons.

 

[tommudd]

So wrong in so many ways
You totally do not understand how the IFS works on these do you?
If you did you would know that longer front shocks are not needed and the reason why you have to have longer rear.
I'm sorry, but this is done.
You lift one KJ and think the whole world is wrong in the way we do it and what works

TO teeje
Start another thread , this one is now so far off course its worthless
Sorry

 

[ozone000]

TwoBobs-I have the set up as yours, minus the top plate and a-arms. Regarding being better than a bagged suspension, I would never seriously compare a bad suspension with an upgraded suspension. The comparison should be bad to stock, or stock to upgraded, or upgraded to upgraded. Anything else is apples to oranges. No one should go back to a bad suspension, that should go without saying.

TeeJe. I'm just giving you information on a few drawbacks that you will find mentioned elsewhere on here and lostjeeps, but, as you can see, is vehemently pushed back against in full bold, all caps, and large font. I get it, people need different things.

Here is a couple of beginner links:
Suspension Height Questions: http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f203/2-5-inch-kj-lift-43397/index4.html#post559108
Alignment Issues: LOST JEEPS • View topic - Lift installed, now a couple of questions. PICS Added!

You'll see that I'm not the first to bring these issues up, just the first to not back down in the face of arguments based on insults and appeal to authority by using measurements, details, and references.

If you want the look or benefits of a lift, by all means go for it. Just understand that there are, in fact, some drawbacks.

 

[teeje]

I trust what tommud says I'm going with the springs he suggested. I've seen his work and I'd be honored for him to touch my jeep which I never let anyone do. His pictures work look great and his advice always helps me.


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[JavelinAMX]

I know I'm relatively new to kj's and this forum, but reading threw posts from tom, and realizing that he has done several dozen of these lifts would lead me to believe that he knows what he is talking about.

 

[tommudd]

I trust what tommud says I'm going with the springs he suggested. I've seen his work and I'd be honored for him to touch my jeep which I never let anyone do. His pictures work look great and his advice always helps me.


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Let me know buddy, be glad to help you out.