Angry Sparrows not front drive shaft now what?

[johnnygrace]

Hey Guys,
So I inspected my front drive shaft, 2004 Liberty 3.6L, as was recommended multiple times on the forum and of course the Transfer case side CV joint boot was obliterated so I assumed that had to be my problem. (see photo below) of course I'm glad I did because that definitely needs to be rebuilt and I'm even questioning whether to do the front joint as well as it sounds like there's no grease in the boot even though it's still intact. (another question I have is wether to just buy a new shaft from driveshaftparts.com or rebuild existing shaft, any difference? anyone have a strong opinion about that?) After going for a test drive without front shaft the noise was still there. I looked around the tires and there aren't any u-joints there to check and I pulled on the rear driveshaft, the backside seems to have no play, the front has a little bit of play but not so much. So the question I have is.... what should I check now?... brake calipers? Can anyone point me to a good tutorial for that. Is there anything else y'all can recommend checking. As well should I just pull the rear driveshaft and rebuild that anyhow. It's obviously never happened and the car has 135,000 miles on it....almost never use 4wd, light city driver so don't need anything crazy burly/expensive.....thanks in Advance!


In summary: Angry Sparrows
-not caused by front drive shaft CV Joint despite boot obliterated
-Small amount of play in front most rear drive shaft u-joint but very small never been rebuilt in 135k
-What to check now, brake calipers? any other suggestions?

as well: Front Drive Shaft
-Rebuild drive shaft with parts from driveshaftparts.com? or buy new shaft w/joints instead of rebuild? Or scrap that website and order from completely different place. Keeping expense as most important and car will probably have to be replaced in a few years anyhow.

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[ridenby]

Rebuild the front shaft,replace the U-joints in rear shaft. Check/replace front hubs-While you are there check CV axles,bearings and seals. Might as well go on and add a lift as the springs and shocks are wore plum out,ball joints too. Brake pads and rotors,upper A-arms,won't hurt either. Once this is done I think we can narrow down the bird sounds.

 

[Hedsic]

Maybe you should try feeding them and paying attention to them and they wouldn't be so angry? Worked for this cat I had that was pretty mean at first. Of course than it got pretty nice and trusting---Last time I saw that cat it was playing with a a Cayote...

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[TwoBobsKJ]

First...

(welcome)

Second, You do have CV axles in the front driveline and either or both of those could be bad. Check the boots around both the inner and outer joints on both axles for tears or signs of grease thrown around the front suspension. Also, there is an intermediate shaft that connects the right side CV axle to the front differential. Those will wear to the point that the splines are completely worn away and the CV axle wobbles badly.

Crawl under the front suspension and grab hold of the CV axle "drum" on the passenger side and try to move it. If it moves more than about 1/8" then you likely have a problem with the intermediate shaft as well as the CV axle. In fact, on the passenger side they are probably rusted together and will both need replacing.

Other than the driveline, there could be noises coming from the calipers or the hub bearings. But my first hunch is the CV's.

Bob

 

[johnnygrace]

Hey Guys,
thanks for all the detailed suggestions. We got the car as a hand-me-down so being that it only cost $1 I can't complain about any problems I'm having. I got nailed by the dealership for a transmission rebuild recently so I'm trying to learn from that mistake. I'll post some more heinous photos If I can work out what's wrong. Thanks again.

 

[yellocoyote]

Shoot... my sparrows actually help me with my KJ - particularly brake work. lol3.gif

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[JeepJeepster]

When is it making the noise? All the time? Worse when turning? Braking? Accelerating?

I assume youve ruled out the cv joint coming out of the diff, right?

 

[johnnygrace]

Hey JeepJeepster thanks for reminding me about that. I forgot to mention that in the first post Yeah the sparrows go away when applying the brakes and when in tight turns although I think I heard it the other day when going around a road bend, they seem to be the loudest when going straight and don't really start up until I've been driving for a few minutes at least and then once they are going I can slow down to maybe 5mph and still hear it. It does seem to follow the wheel revolutions. It's also waaaay louder when a bus is next to me and it has something to bounce off of although I'm not sure if it's louder on the left or right side yet I need to investigate that more.

I also appreciate these riduculous photos of sparrows sitting on yall's cars. I started out being quite annoyed by this whole thing but am glad someone has a sense of humor about it.

 

[JeepJeepster]

Check the cv joint on the passenger side just where it comes out of the diff to the wheel. Grab the big rusty looking section on the diff side of the black rubber boot. Try to move it up and down and front to rear. There is a shaft coming out of the diff that the cv slides on. Those splines go bad.

Mine only made a noise when i was coasting off the gas. Never figured out why. Sometimes it would rumble at low speeds too.

Other than that idk why it would stop when you apply the brakes. What do you mean by sparrows? Metal balls in a coffee can? High pitched squealing?

 

[johnnygrace]

JeepJepster, I guess I'm interpreting the angry sparrows sound to be that of a high pitched squealing that gets louder the faster you go so more angry, but definitely not metal balls in a coffee can or a rumble or anything like that....

So the inner CV joint on passenger side has maybe twice as much play as the one on the drivers side. It does not seem right. It also makes a bit of a clunking sound when pulling and pushing to it's extreme. There is a tiny bit of play in the outer CV joints on both sides. I can't find any signs of boot tears or grease spray but on the drivers side inner CV joint there is some oil or such on the boot which could just be from the last time they worked on my car. I posted a video below of the play in the passenger side inner CV joint when I push and pull on the boot.


TwoBobsKJ you said:

"Also, there is an intermediate shaft that connects the right side CV axle to the front differential." "Crawl under the front suspension and grab hold of the CV axle "drum" on the passenger side and try to move it. If it moves more than about 1/8" then you likely have a problem with the intermediate shaft as well as the CV axle. In fact, on the passenger side they are probably rusted together and will both need replacing." The video is of the passenger side inner CV Drum.

So the intermediate shaft is encased correct? I'm interested in how that gets replaced and what that part is called.

Nappa sells Remfd CV axels for $54.99 so I might just go that route. Now I just need to upgrade my tool kit...any suggestions for what I need to undertake this job? What's a good first Torque wrench?


Video of loose CV Axle Boot on passenger side.
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Oil on drivers side CV Boot.

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[tommudd]

Picture of the right side CV and Intermediate shaft
Best place for CV is from NAPA, get the remanned and you'll be fine, Intermediate shaft can be found on EBAY etc
Not hard at all to swap out and yes they will wear out/rust together etc

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[JeepJeepster]

Just from that vid it doesnt seem to have a high amount of play. Could easily cause a angry sparrow i suppose. To save money, you could take both cv's out and see if the noise is gone.

Youve checked the brakes out thoroughly? Dust shields arent rubbing on rotors?

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

TwoBobsKJ you said:

"Also, there is an intermediate shaft that connects the right side CV axle to the front differential." "Crawl under the front suspension and grab hold of the CV axle "drum" on the passenger side and try to move it. If it moves more than about 1/8" then you likely have a problem with the intermediate shaft as well as the CV axle. In fact, on the passenger side they are probably rusted together and will both need replacing." The video is of the passenger side inner CV Drum.

So the intermediate shaft is encased correct? I'm interested in how that gets replaced and what that part is called.

Nappa sells Remfd CV axels for $54.99 so I might just go that route. Now I just need to upgrade my tool kit...any suggestions for what I need to undertake this job? What's a good first Torque wrench?

Like JeepJeepster said, that isn't a tremendous amount of play but to me the sound that side makes when you push on it could very well be the source of your bird noises. As TomMudd's picture shows above, the intermediate shaft (that IS the part name, by the way) engages the differential inside the case then inserts into the CV axle "drum." Very common for the splines you can see in Tom's photo to wear away and/or rust to the point that the CV and the intermediate shaft become one unit.

For replacement you've made a good selection; NAPA remanufactured ones are the way to go. Their new ones are too short as are new ones from most other suppliers. I've had good fortune with the NAPAs.

As far as tools...the one you probably don't have is a 36mm CV socket 1/2" drive. Most auto parts stores carry them. You'll need an assortment of metric sockets to remove the clevises from the bottoms of the front shocks so you can get the CV axles out, plus loosening the swaybar links, etc. You may want a crowbar too so you can pop the CV's out of the front differential.

There is a complete How-To here on JeepKJ.com to guide you through the process.

Bob

 

[Luke]

^^ can't get much better advice than that.

 

[johnnygrace]

I just went back over the brakes and couldn't see anywhere which appeared to be rubbing.

I will have to order the intermediate shaft so I think pulling the cv axle(s) right now and seeing if my noise goes away is a great idea. If I pull the passenger side one I'm assuming the intermediate shaft will come out with it at which point I'm okay to drive like that? If I pull it tomorrow can I drive around till the new intermediate shaft arrives next week? Maybe tape over the opening??

I picked up the Rmfd CV Axle and ordered the CV Joint for the front shaft repair. I will go ahead and do the U-Joints while I'm at it and see what happens. Should I put in a new pinion yoke while I'm doing the u-joints or is that usually not necessary?

 

[ridenby]

Pinion yoke replacement not needed. Generally.

 

[johnnygrace]

I just finished replacing the u-joints and of course the sound is still there. I think I knew deep down inside it would be. Tomorrow I will give the axle shafts a go and see if I can pull those. That should narrow it down. Replacing the u-joints was about exactly as hard as I thought it would be only I was a little bit suprised I was able to complete the task. About 4 hours total, most of that was spent hammering, then bending my already sad looking c-clamp, and hammering my severely deformed sockets some more, then cursing the snap rings....and on top of that after I finally got the old ones removed and started to prepare the new ones I discovered they only included 3 snap rings of the proper thickness in one of the boxes!!!. Maybe that's a lesson learned someone else will benefit from. I bought the spicer joints from a driveline shop and during the removal of the old joints I found out they were spicers too as well as the flange. They did seem to be in pretty good shape, still full of grease. Guess if I had been a bit more observant I might have surmised they were still in good shape and not in need of replacement. I'm also assuming these aren't OEM.

 

[JeepJeepster]

Pretty awesome that youre doing all of this yourself. Replacing ujoints is a pretty serious thing to do if youve never done something of the sort.

I wouldnt pull just the passenger side cv. Id pull both the drivers side and passenger side. Yea, the shaft 'should' come out with it. I couldnt even get mine apart. Had to return it all as a core.

Id stuff something back in the diff(paper towels,etc) so grit wont find its way back in there. Make sure the tcase stays in 2wd!

 

[johnnygrace]

I wouldnt pull just the passenger side cv. Id pull both the drivers side and passenger side. Yea, the shaft 'should' come out with it. I couldnt even get mine apart. Had to return it all as a core.

Are you recommending pulling both axles because it might put weird stress on the diff if I only pulled one side at a time?

Changing out the u-joints was incredibly difficult. Since i only have one car It had to be done. I would highly recommend taking it to a driveline shop for anyone who hasn't done it before/doesn't have the specific tools. They quoted me $30 for removing and replacing both u-joints. I would consider this a steal in time/headache savings.

 

[Luke]

I pulled both mine when chasing noise .. for that exact reason.

The U-joints are really straight forward... I had never done them before the KJ. The key is having/renting the right tools. It makes for a much easier job. The first one might be challenging but once you figure out the how and when of keeping the bearings seated your golden.

However if I could get it done for $30 .. I would consider it.