Wheel Alignment?

[Emoto]

Am finally able to drop off the '02 Liberty Ltd for the hitch and another recall. Want to have them do a front end alignment while it is there, as I see some odd tire wear going on (inner edges of front tires worn more).

Is there any reason to do a "4 wheel alignment" or will a "front wheel alignment" do the trick?

 

[LibertyTC]

Typically on RWD you align the front to the rear or front wheel alignment.
Four wheel alignment is common for FWD cars, where the rear are fully adjustable as well.
The dealer will get ya fixed up, and if the rear tires are not inside edge worn, get the rear tires moved up front. If they are cupping bad, you may want to look at new tires.
An alignment once a year is a good idea on the KJ.

 

[Emoto]

Good to know. Thanks! Yes, will have them rotate front to back. No cupping bad enough to notice.

 

[M38 Bob]

A little secret; Most modern camera/reflector alignment machines are ONLY capable of 4 wheel alignment. On a solid rear axle like Libs have there's no way to utilize the 4 wheel alignment capabilities, so if you "splurge" for the 4 wheel package you're getting bent over. On 4 wheel independent suspension, where there are adjustments on all four wheels, only a fool would "save money" by having a 2 wheel alignment done,,,,,IF any shop would agree to do it in the first place.

Bob

 

[Emoto]

A little secret; Most modern camera/reflector alignment machines are ONLY capable of 4 wheel alignment. On a solid rear axle like Libs have there's no way to utilize the 4 wheel alignment capabilities, so if you "splurge" for the 4 wheel package you're getting bent over. On 4 wheel independent suspension, where there are adjustments on all four wheels, only a fool would "save money" by having a 2 wheel alignment done,,,,,IF any shop would agree to do it in the first place.

Bob

Funny you should mention that. I am not fully aware of all the differences (hence this thread/question) but when I booked the recall service and asked what they charge for a front end alignment, I was first quoted a price for "4 wheel alignment" to which I responded that "this has a solid rear axle, so I think I only need a front end alignment, right?" and the guy just said "ok, 2-wheel alignment" without commenting on what was really necessary.

 

[tjkj2002]

Funny you should mention that. I am not fully aware of all the differences (hence this thread/question) but when I booked the recall service and asked what they charge for a front end alignment, I was first quoted a price for "4 wheel alignment" to which I responded that "this has a solid rear axle, so I think I only need a front end alignment, right?" and the guy just said "ok, 2-wheel alignment" without commenting on what was really necessary.

These days there are no "front wheel" or "4 wheel" alignments.


You must know what the rear is at to properly set the front,for toe.You have a regular alignment and what they call a "toe set".A "toe set" is just that,they only set the front toe and no other adjustment but they still need to put all 4 heads on the vehicle to set the front toe.

 

[Emoto]

These days there are no "front wheel" or "4 wheel" alignments.


You must know what the rear is at to properly set the front,for toe.You have a regular alignment and what they call a "toe set".A "toe set" is just that,they only set the front toe and no other adjustment but they still need to put all 4 heads on the vehicle to set the front toe.

Interesting info. Thanks for speaking up! I do not doubt what you say at all, but I have to wonder what the dealer is doing offering "4 wheel alignment" and "front end alignment" at different price points. (about a $30 difference)

Just got my annual state inspection this morning (not at the dealer who will be doing recall work and a front end alignment) and the young man said the front end was pretty solid for having 150k miles on it. Said the control arms and ball joints were all good. So, at least I can be somewhat confident in case the dealer calls to say they need to replace x, y, or Z.

 

[tjkj2002]

Interesting info. Thanks for speaking up! I do not doubt what you say at all, but I have to wonder what the dealer is doing offering "4 wheel alignment" and "front end alignment" at different price points. (about a $30 difference)

Just got my annual state inspection this morning (not at the dealer who will be doing recall work and a front end alignment) and the young man said the front end was pretty solid for having 150k miles on it. Said the control arms and ball joints were all good. So, at least I can be somewhat confident in case the dealer calls to say they need to replace x, y, or Z.

Those are old terms(like 20+ years old) before the new alignment machines came out using camera's and lasers.


At work we have $30 price difference between a toe set and regular alignment.

 

[Emoto]

Those are old terms(like 20+ years old) before the new alignment machines came out using camera's and lasers.


At work we have $30 price difference between a toe set and regular alignment.

Hmm. I sure wouldn't consider setting only the tow to be an alignment, would you?

 

[tjkj2002]

Hmm. I sure wouldn't consider setting only the tow to be an alignment, would you?

No and why we have it listed as a toe set and not a alignment.

 

[Emoto]

No and why we have it listed as a toe set and not a alignment.

Ah! Way to go. Please excuse my ignorance, but why would someone want just a toe set?

 

[tjkj2002]

Ah! Way to go. Please excuse my ignorance, but why would someone want just a toe set?

Cheap bastards that we replace parts like tie rod ends or the whole rack on that require a alignment.If your spending $700-$1200 what's another $30 for a true alignment?

 

[M38 Bob]

TJ, I guess us ol hillbilly boys duz thangs diffrunt hyar in Arkansaw, We uns offers 2wheel (icluding camber n caster) on non adjustable rears an 4 wheel on thems whut got justments in thu back. Souns lak yall's screwin tha pooch on thet ther "toe set" thang.

Bob

 

[tjkj2002]

TJ, I guess us ol hillbilly boys duz thangs diffrunt hyar in Arkansaw, We uns offers 2wheel (icluding camber n caster) on non adjustable rears an 4 wheel on thems whut got justments in thu back. Souns lak yall's screwin tha pooch on thet ther "toe set" thang.

Bob

No such thing as a "2 wheel" alignment.Your setting up just like a real alignment but only adjusting 1 end.You can not set up the front end without knowing where the rear is set at even if the rear has zero adjustments.


Besides there are actually very few vehicles that you can adjust anything more then front toe without aftermarket parts being added.

 

[Emoto]

No such thing as a "2 wheel" alignment.Your setting up just like a real alignment but only adjusting 1 end.You can not set up the front end without knowing where the rear is set at even if the rear has zero adjustments.


Besides there are actually very few vehicles that you can adjust anything more then front toe without aftermarket parts being added.

Your last sentence raises an interesting question: What about the 2002 Liberty? What is adjustable on its front end, assuming all stock?

 

[M38 Bob]

TJ, you are absolutely right. The "2 wheel alignment" is done in the same mode as the 4. We are simply selling an alignment that requires less time for less money, instead of offering a half **** toe only econo job. I think if you were to go back and actually read my first post that'd be obvious. Shops that charge a 4wheel price when only 2 are set able are just a half step from dishonest.

Bob


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[tjkj2002]

Your last sentence raises an interesting question: What about the 2002 Liberty? What is adjustable on its front end, assuming all stock?

Everything is adjustable on the front end of a KJ,one of the few out there.

TJ, you are absolutely right. The "2 wheel alignment" is done in the same mode as the 4. We are simply selling an alignment that requires less time for less money, instead of offering a half **** toe only econo job. I think if you were to go back and actually read my first post that'd be obvious. Shops that charge a 4wheel price when only 2 are set able are just a half step from dishonest.

Bob


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well we sell 2 alignment packages,a 1 time and a lifetime and most opt for the lifetime so the cost is justified since we may have to do 20+ alignments for $200 over say 5-10 years on that vehicle.

 

[tommudd]

The old machine I learned to do alignments on back in the early 70s we actually did what they call a 4 wheel now. You had to check rear against the front, align the vehicle on the machine etc. Granted it was done with mirrors back then, read specs on a screen, far from today but we were still doing a basic 4 wheel no matter what some call it now.

 

[ouroboros]

Proper term for a "two wheel" alignment is a thrust angle alignment.. My shop offers that or a four-wheel.. Alignments are pretty simple really once you begin to understand what's a wearing angle, what can cause pull, what may throw your steering wheel off, etc... I'm certified in suspension and steering here in MI but haven't put it to any use in about 3 1/2 years being that I'm a service writer now.

 

[ouroboros]

Btw you adjust the front to the thrust angle of the rear, being that whichever way your rear axle is going, you'll adjust the front accordingly.