Need new front springs...
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tommudd
Moderator
Yep, moderator on both , but been on LOST since early 2004
Sooooooooo very long time ago
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After reading for two days straight it looks like 927s for me. Like I said, level is important and the Light duty and medium duty spring rates are the same.
Maybe you think I doubted you, but doubt is very different from skepticism.
It took a LONG time to find those threads where my questions were answered. Even then, it was one or two posts.
Maybe you think I doubted you, but doubt is very different from skepticism.
It took a LONG time to find those threads where my questions were answered. Even then, it was one or two posts.
So the springs are here. As are the Bilstein rear shocks.
The front shocks are on backorder and expected to be shipped from the factory early May.
FML. The wife complains about the ride everyday!
Off to trying to figure out if 265/65R17 will fit on my 7.5 inch wheels with just this lift and no wheel well work. Diameter and backspacing seem ok, but maybe they stick out too far?
The front shocks are on backorder and expected to be shipped from the factory early May.
FML. The wife complains about the ride everyday!
Off to trying to figure out if 265/65R17 will fit on my 7.5 inch wheels with just this lift and no wheel well work. Diameter and backspacing seem ok, but maybe they stick out too far?
tommudd
Moderator
With the 927s you'll be at 2.5 inches of lift or 21.5 middle of the wheel to bottom of the flare
Height wise you'll be fine,
what will get you is the section width is 10.7 with a 8.4 tread width
I'd say you'll rub while turning with stock wheels
Are you doing the pinch welds ?
Wasn't planning to.
265/65R17 is a common size that matches the 245/75R16 in height, or 245/70R17, which seems to be the only other reasonable option. Unless I go skinny....?
I'd like the wider tire but if the shoe doesn't fit, you must'a quit.
Though the stock 17s have a bit more offset, the 265s still stick out about half to 3/4 inch further. I've seen some use 1.25 inch spacers but not a lot of explanation there or comparison to the 17x7.5 rims so I wasn't sure.
265/65R17 is a common size that matches the 245/75R16 in height, or 245/70R17, which seems to be the only other reasonable option. Unless I go skinny....?
I'd like the wider tire but if the shoe doesn't fit, you must'a quit.
Though the stock 17s have a bit more offset, the 265s still stick out about half to 3/4 inch further. I've seen some use 1.25 inch spacers but not a lot of explanation there or comparison to the 17x7.5 rims so I wasn't sure.
TwoBobsKJ
Full Access Member
You'll definitely want to pound over the pinch welds. The larger tires will rub for sure on them - an easy mod so better to do it while you have everything out of the wheel well :waytogo:
Bob
Bob
I shouldn't be needing tires for awhile. I guess it depends on what the wife thinks of the teeny weensy stock tires (probably fine, they really aren't that small on the Limited and I'm not getting any isolators or top plates). She's mostly concerned with the rough ride.
Also depends on how often I'm really able to get out to where I actually could use off-road tires. First I need Bilstein to start making the shocks again!
This page seems to imply that even at 30.5 inches it may be necessary to get a lower final gear. Eff that. If that's the case I'll stick with stock size. What's the benefit, anyway? 0.75 inch more differential clearance? I hear 245/70R17 is the biggest with no mods other than the OME lift? That sounds reasonable but for the regearing.
Also depends on how often I'm really able to get out to where I actually could use off-road tires. First I need Bilstein to start making the shocks again!
This page seems to imply that even at 30.5 inches it may be necessary to get a lower final gear. Eff that. If that's the case I'll stick with stock size. What's the benefit, anyway? 0.75 inch more differential clearance? I hear 245/70R17 is the biggest with no mods other than the OME lift? That sounds reasonable but for the regearing.
tommudd
Moderator
As far as regearing anything much over a 29-29.5 inch tire you will notice a difference. The 3.7 likes to run in a pretty narrow power band really so if you install larger tires with stock gearing it will lug down.
I'm building my 03 to be a good all around driver on flat and hilly roads. I also pull a trailer ( well trailers) quite a bit so don't want to lug down on every little hill. So 30-305 inch tall tires and 4.10s will work great, more power, better mileage etc My over 4 inch lifted 2004 with 32s, lots of dead weight gets 21-22 easy on the highway , longer trip even better so its well worth it to me to get a good setup with tires/ gears etc
I'm building my 03 to be a good all around driver on flat and hilly roads. I also pull a trailer ( well trailers) quite a bit so don't want to lug down on every little hill. So 30-305 inch tall tires and 4.10s will work great, more power, better mileage etc My over 4 inch lifted 2004 with 32s, lots of dead weight gets 21-22 easy on the highway , longer trip even better so its well worth it to me to get a good setup with tires/ gears etc
tommudd
Moderator
No a decrease in RPMs does not always mean better mileage, it lugs the engine down
yes notice a difference does mean a regear although some tend to go anyways thinking it will be OK:icon_lol:
What say you about not even worrying about a different size of tire? Seems like it's generally done, but why if it's so detrimental to the way the system works? We're talking a whole bunch of money here for a slightly bigger wheel. What am I missing here?
I don't need more power. Or fuel efficiency, really. That's why I ride a motorcycle everywhere all year round. Speed of a McLaren F1, efficiency of a Prius. This is my rain vehicle. And camping once in awhile with the dog. And for use when some other vehicle breaks so I don't have to take the stupid thing to a stupid shop just because I work a 0600-1700 plus duty days and don't have the time to fix it RIGHT NOW. Sure, I'd like to make it down a fire road once or twice a year and know I could make it back but not at any cost! I have zero interest in $600 worth of removing perfectly working gears.
I don't need more power. Or fuel efficiency, really. That's why I ride a motorcycle everywhere all year round. Speed of a McLaren F1, efficiency of a Prius. This is my rain vehicle. And camping once in awhile with the dog. And for use when some other vehicle breaks so I don't have to take the stupid thing to a stupid shop just because I work a 0600-1700 plus duty days and don't have the time to fix it RIGHT NOW. Sure, I'd like to make it down a fire road once or twice a year and know I could make it back but not at any cost! I have zero interest in $600 worth of removing perfectly working gears.
tommudd
Moderator
OK do it your way, its your's , just trying to be upfront about what to expect
due to being harder on the transmission, engine, which runs hotter / lugs down, more wear on gears etc
Have fun
due to being harder on the transmission, engine, which runs hotter / lugs down, more wear on gears etc
Have fun
And exactly what way is this "your way" that you're referring to?
I asked a question and gave some background information.
In fact, I asked two questions. One was essentially "Tell me more, Rev. Mudd" and the other essentially was "Help me because I admit I'm stupid".
I try to make my writing clear and concise. Your abject inability to understand me is making me feel bad about myself. I wish there were more participants because at this point I can't tell if it's me or you.
I asked a question and gave some background information.
In fact, I asked two questions. One was essentially "Tell me more, Rev. Mudd" and the other essentially was "Help me because I admit I'm stupid".
I try to make my writing clear and concise. Your abject inability to understand me is making me feel bad about myself. I wish there were more participants because at this point I can't tell if it's me or you.
TwoBobsKJ
Full Access Member
I can give you my personal experience....
When I lifted I really didn't like the looks of the stock tires in the now-empty wheel wells, so I put on a set of 255/70-16's. Not a lot bigger than stock but I immediately noticed the Jeep was "sluggish" and just didn't feel the same. It wasn't a dog but getting up to speed was a little bit more of an adventure.
When fishing season came around and I started towing the boat is when I really noticed it - especially backing the boat up my driveway (slightly uphill and about 120 feet long.) Tom and others had mentioned regearing but I didn't want to pay a shop the money they were asking (not that they were out of line - as the saying goes, 'it is what it is.')
Started poking around for used diffs from 4 cylinder KJ's and found a front one in a local boneyard and bought it. Two years later I found a rear diff and so Tom and I installed them one day/afternoon/evening :happy175:
On the 3 hour drive home I immediately noticed the difference - the pep was back, it didn't downshift on every little incline. In short it drove like it did stock. It's my daily driver so mileage, minimizing heat build-up in the ******, etc. are important.
Since you have the F1 speed/Prius mileage at your disposal and the KJ is a camping & backcountry vehicle you may not have the need to regear. It's all in what you use the KJ for. But even on those trips to the backcountry the higher gear ratio will give you additional confidence in the Jeep.
I waited a while before I regeared but am really glad I did - for me it was well worth it :waytogo:
Bob
When I lifted I really didn't like the looks of the stock tires in the now-empty wheel wells, so I put on a set of 255/70-16's. Not a lot bigger than stock but I immediately noticed the Jeep was "sluggish" and just didn't feel the same. It wasn't a dog but getting up to speed was a little bit more of an adventure.
When fishing season came around and I started towing the boat is when I really noticed it - especially backing the boat up my driveway (slightly uphill and about 120 feet long.) Tom and others had mentioned regearing but I didn't want to pay a shop the money they were asking (not that they were out of line - as the saying goes, 'it is what it is.')
Started poking around for used diffs from 4 cylinder KJ's and found a front one in a local boneyard and bought it. Two years later I found a rear diff and so Tom and I installed them one day/afternoon/evening :happy175:
On the 3 hour drive home I immediately noticed the difference - the pep was back, it didn't downshift on every little incline. In short it drove like it did stock. It's my daily driver so mileage, minimizing heat build-up in the ******, etc. are important.
Since you have the F1 speed/Prius mileage at your disposal and the KJ is a camping & backcountry vehicle you may not have the need to regear. It's all in what you use the KJ for. But even on those trips to the backcountry the higher gear ratio will give you additional confidence in the Jeep.
I waited a while before I regeared but am really glad I did - for me it was well worth it :waytogo:
Bob
Thanks TwoBobs for reading my post and answering my question.
Am I correct in thinking that you're saying that a re-gear necessary for the tire change which necessary for a lift?
This isn't what I signed up for. Good thing I haven't installed the springs yet.
What is your suggestion for my situation? I started out not wanting a lift and was convinced otherwise, now I find my original intuition to be accurate.
Moog springs? Ignore the tiny tire problem? Turn the Jeep back into the dealer under Lemon Law for safety?
I don't know what to do, help me out here!
Am I correct in thinking that you're saying that a re-gear necessary for the tire change which necessary for a lift?
This isn't what I signed up for. Good thing I haven't installed the springs yet.
What is your suggestion for my situation? I started out not wanting a lift and was convinced otherwise, now I find my original intuition to be accurate.
Moog springs? Ignore the tiny tire problem? Turn the Jeep back into the dealer under Lemon Law for safety?
I don't know what to do, help me out here!
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Wow... all of this for a set of springs. I just did the OME stuff. If you search there are PLENTY of shops that sell a full set right in the 850.00 range, shipped. Not bad for the gold standard for the Liberty. I went "medium" all the way around 926/947 after a discussion with ARB. Tom recommends the "heavy" springs, which I probably would have gone with, but had already dropped the $$$ prior to talking with the forum here. I wanted a better ride and a bit of lift. I netted 2.5" on my lift. Ride is great.
OME DOES match there suspension systems based on load needs etc. they have several shock/spring combos to make the suspension the best it can be for the given application. Customizing spring rates to shocks/shock bodies is standard for any high/higher performance application. Car, bike, or otherwise.
The trouble with the "one size fits all" shocks and springs is just that. They "work" but that's about it. Also, the longevity and durability is always in question with a high wear type of vehicle like a jeep. I look at it from both the customizing and the budgetary perspective... I can get a great, long lasting suspension system, dialed for EXACTLY my needs for 850.00 (plus install or bruised knuckles) OR I can spend 400-500 for a less than stellar suspension (with the same install $$) that will most likely need to be replaced 3 times before the latter. PLUS with the standard stuff, there is minimal/no lift when all is said and done. Doesn't take much to convince me where the best VALUE is overall. YMMV
OME DOES match there suspension systems based on load needs etc. they have several shock/spring combos to make the suspension the best it can be for the given application. Customizing spring rates to shocks/shock bodies is standard for any high/higher performance application. Car, bike, or otherwise.
The trouble with the "one size fits all" shocks and springs is just that. They "work" but that's about it. Also, the longevity and durability is always in question with a high wear type of vehicle like a jeep. I look at it from both the customizing and the budgetary perspective... I can get a great, long lasting suspension system, dialed for EXACTLY my needs for 850.00 (plus install or bruised knuckles) OR I can spend 400-500 for a less than stellar suspension (with the same install $$) that will most likely need to be replaced 3 times before the latter. PLUS with the standard stuff, there is minimal/no lift when all is said and done. Doesn't take much to convince me where the best VALUE is overall. YMMV
I have no customizing perspective, only a budgeting one. :whip:
The issue is no longer the springs which, in and of themselves, I'm happy with.
Plus, I already have the suspension system purchased and for $200 less than you mentioned. Ok, $196 less after hockey pucks. :gr_grin:
When referring to the "one size fits all" are you referring to the OME setup? Because that's what it seems like here, 927/948 size for everyone. :shrug:
What I'm not happy with is the sudden realization that this $300 investment is blossoming into a $1300 one. I don't count the basic cost of new suspension or new tires, those I will need eventually anyways. I'm thinking long range here, but I was not aware until today that a set of normal looking sized tires would cost an additional set of gears also.
So I seem to have 4 options, listed in order of likelihood at this point.
1. Live with tiny wheel syndrome.
2. Risk Moog springs.
3. Choose lower rated OME springs.
4. Budget re-gear when new tires are due.
I don't like any of these options and thus am seeking assistance.
I'm imagining this:
The issue is no longer the springs which, in and of themselves, I'm happy with.
Plus, I already have the suspension system purchased and for $200 less than you mentioned. Ok, $196 less after hockey pucks. :gr_grin:
When referring to the "one size fits all" are you referring to the OME setup? Because that's what it seems like here, 927/948 size for everyone. :shrug:
What I'm not happy with is the sudden realization that this $300 investment is blossoming into a $1300 one. I don't count the basic cost of new suspension or new tires, those I will need eventually anyways. I'm thinking long range here, but I was not aware until today that a set of normal looking sized tires would cost an additional set of gears also.
So I seem to have 4 options, listed in order of likelihood at this point.
1. Live with tiny wheel syndrome.
2. Risk Moog springs.
3. Choose lower rated OME springs.
4. Budget re-gear when new tires are due.
I don't like any of these options and thus am seeking assistance.
I'm imagining this:
Attachments
TwoBobs, is this: http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f203/pics-2-2-5-lift-235-70-a-53050/
with just the OME lift or does that have isos, etc. too? Your sig says OME only, but your specs say 22.25 which indicates more than that.
with just the OME lift or does that have isos, etc. too? Your sig says OME only, but your specs say 22.25 which indicates more than that.
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Adam Roby
Full Access Member
Just wish they sold standard height quality springs... no lift.
Once you lift, the potential for other things increases... a-arms, ball joints, tires, re-gear... goes on and on. Maybe I'll buy some OME and cut off a couple inches...
Once you lift, the potential for other things increases... a-arms, ball joints, tires, re-gear... goes on and on. Maybe I'll buy some OME and cut off a couple inches...
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