2.5 inch kj lift

[rockymountain]

actually a shock in front. Taken from the FAQ:

Bilstein: F4-BE5-6458-H7
OME: NS131

 

[Redbone]

One of the things is most use worn out springs so right away you're fighting a loosing battle

I'm unsure what you mean by worn out springs.I've never had a spring to sag or ride noticeable different from the way came from the factory. This includes the rear springs on trucks I've used to haul and pull some heavy trailers.

 

[streetglideok]

Springs sag, more often then you know. Coils, by design sag more often then leaf springs. If you go pick up a book wit hride height specs, and start checking, you might shock yourself at what you find. As a rule, any Ford with the I beam and coil spring setup in front, have alot of spring sag by the 80k mile mark. When they come in for an alignment, the extreme negative camber they measure out to makes it more apparent. Putting fresh coils puts the camber back in spec most of the time. Old american fullsized cars loved eating coil springs for lunch. A combination of weak or substandard shocks, and bouncy roads made short work of coils. Excessive bouncing will create heat in coil springs and weaken them, making them sag.

 

[Redbone]

Springs sag, more often then you know. Coils, by design sag more often then leaf springs. If you go pick up a book wit hride height specs, and start checking, you might shock yourself at what you find. As a rule, any Ford with the I beam and coil spring setup in front, have alot of spring sag by the 80k mile mark. When they come in for an alignment, the extreme negative camber they measure out to makes it more apparent. Putting fresh coils puts the camber back in spec most of the time. Old american fullsized cars loved eating coil springs for lunch. A combination of weak or substandard shocks, and bouncy roads made short work of coils. Excessive bouncing will create heat in coil springs and weaken them, making them sag.

You sound like you work in that profession. :happy107: The key point to your entry is 80k miles plus the vehicles you refer to. I rarely keep a vehicle for 80k miles. I have owned several vehicles that I've done suspension work on. I kept height measurement info on several and rechecked many miles later. The most accurate info I have ever kept was on a '79 GMC and the '03 I still have. Also the Jeep now but not enough miles to use as a point now. I pulled the overload springs off of both GMCs when they were new to improve the ride. I pulled a 6k+lb trailer from time to time with each with adequate tongue weight to prevent swaying. Neither sagged. I have 75k on the '03 and all 4 corners are same as new after overload removal. That is why I question "worn out springs". Even with minor sagging they still perform. One can compensate with lift if ride height is desired.

 

[streetglideok]

Like I said, you wont see much sag on leaf setups, unless you really overload the heck out of them, from my experience. 6K lb trailers are not really that heavy, since you arent putting all of that on the truck itself. Some vehicles dont seem to sag much, while others do alot. Most of the 70s era GM cars Ive seen sagged something horrible. Youve been lucky that you havent encountered it, thats all. Springs do wear though, just like the hair on my head. Im due for a recap lol

 

[tommudd]

I'm unsure what you mean by worn out springs.I've never had a spring to sag or ride noticeable different from the way came from the factory. This includes the rear springs on trucks I've used to haul and pull some heavy trailers.

My 2.5 lift is holding up pretty good. I've put about 15k mostly highway miles on the lift. 65k total on Jeep. I'll probably keep only another 30k depending on Obama and Congress. If they take away my 201k I'll be riding a frickin bicycle.

I'm unsure what you mean by worn out springs.I've never had a spring to sag or ride noticeable different from the way came from the factory. :happy175:
Every spring starts to sag as soon as it leaves the factory, some not as much as others and leaves not as much as coils but even they do. Saying they never do is being in another world somewhere. Look at a Cherokee with 75-90,000 miles, rears are sagged like everything. I've owned over 125 vehicles and they all either had full spring replacements or needed them
Now granted its not over night and most people never notice it being lower nor do they notice that it is riding worse due to the gradual effect, but they still do, plus the fact factory springs are junk pretty much

 

[Redbone]

I'm unsure what you mean by worn out springs.I've never had a spring to sag or ride noticeable different from the way came from the factory. :happy175:

Sure looks like an insult to me. I'll stop here before it gets any uglier. I gotta say I fully intend to bank the money and continue to ride on my worn out springs. You can change 500 springs if that is your thing.

 

[tommudd]

Not an insult at all
Just funny since every spring sags over time, gravity takes over
Sorry if you took it that way but facts are facts
Too bad you're not closer so you could take a ride in a well setup KJ we have several around here that would be willing to show you
\And why is it that when new KJs were 19 inches and after 40-60,000 miles most all are down to 18??
Just curious on your thoughts regarding that if its not sag what is it, magnet sucking it to the ground?

 

[Redbone]

Not an insult at all
Just funny since every spring sags over time, gravity takes over
Sorry if you took it that way but facts are facts
Too bad you're not closer so you could take a ride in a well setup KJ we have several around here that would be willing to show you
\And why is it that when new KJs were 19 inches and after 40-60,000 miles most all are down to 18??
Just curious on your thoughts regarding that if its not sag what is it, magnet sucking it to the ground?

I understand metal fatigue. They will sag over time accelerated by weight. No prob. Back on page 6 you said "So you take a spring with say 50,000 miles on it, its already sagged 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch most generally." But is that "worn out"? Now look at these entries:

Redbone

Originally Posted by tommudd
One of the things is most use worn out springs so right away you're fighting a loosing battle

I'm unsure what you mean by worn out springs. ...

It clearly says "worn out". What is the industry standard to call springs "worn out"? Sag would lead to "worn out" eventually but if ride height is acceptable and ride is comfortable why would I consider them worn out?

Read carefully ... and try not being so condescending please.

 

[Redbone]

\And why is it that when new KJs were 19 inches and after 40-60,000 miles most all are down to 18??
Just curious on your thoughts regarding that if its not sag what is it, magnet sucking it to the ground?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, It may just be the added weight of modded vehicles. It may just be the extra crap you guys carry around pushing it toward the ground. :shrug:

 

[streetglideok]

If you look in a ride height book, it gives you a range of whats considered normal. If it falls below that, then its out of spec, and one could use the term, worn out(of spec). Doesnt always matter if its functioning, its worn out of design parameters, and can lead to alignment issues, tire rubbing, and even in some cases handling issues. I did a driving seminar with Monroe last year. They had 3 types of vehicles, a car, an suv, and a minivan. Each type was a pair of vehicles, one with new shocks/struts, the other with the oe, with about 80k miles or around that. We ran them thru a paved course, and beat them like a redheaded stepchild. The point of it all, was to see side by side differences between two identical vehicles, one right after the other to see the differences. What you may think feels fine, and works fine, may be only because it has been a slow change and you adapted to it. Drive an identical vehicle with new springs and shocks, and you may rethink your stance.

 

[tommudd]

Lots of difference isn't there?
I went through a similar exercise back in 1977 when I got my certifications for brakes and suspension

 

[Redbone]

Drive an identical vehicle with new springs and shocks, and you may rethink your stance.

If you are referring to me probably not. You are proving my point. Tom says "worn out" without an actual reference to what that actually is. We, the ignorant, need to know what that refers to when deciding how to proceed. Just because a vehicle has *** miles on it doesn't mean it has "worn out" springs. All ya gotta do is take time to read my previous questions. What is "worn out" referring. I've been laughed at and told the highway has magnets BUT never been told what "worn out" is.

Note: in your driving seminar you only list strut and shock changes. The ride difference would be notable of course but if there was no spring changes the exercise would be moot as far as this issue is concerned.

 

[streetglideok]

Its actually not moot, its a demonstration on how your vehicle's ride slowly degrades with worn parts, in that case shocks and struts. In your case it would be springs. Take an identical vehicle with new springs, and I bet you will notice a difference. If you do some research at the motorist assurance program website, it may help define "worn out". The only thing I can tell you is, worn out means literally, out of the specification limits set by the OEM. In this case, worn out means the springs have sagged to the point that the ride height is no longer in spec. err go, worn out. Simple eh?

 

[rockymountain]

If you are referring to me probably not. You are proving my point. Tom throws "worn out" around without an actual reference to what that actually is. We, the ignorant, need to know what that refers to when deciding how to proceed. Just because a vehicle has *** miles on it doesn't mean it has "worn out" springs. All ya gotta do is take time to read my previous questions. What is "worn out" referring. I've been laughed at and told the highway has magnets BUT never been told what "worn out" is .... and I've been gracious enough to not make fun of anyone not having basic comprehension skills of the written word. I simply want an explanation so we understand each other when us, not in the profession, are discussing.

Note: in your driving seminar you only list strut and shock changes. The ride difference would be notable of course but if there was no spring changes the exercise would be moot as far as this issue is concerned.

Worn out in here is 18 to 18.5 inches from center of hub to bottom of flare. Just note that you are going against the grain of this entire forum. You are challenging facts that have been know for years and years. You cannot get fired up with opposition to that.
Its a good thing you'll keep riding on the same old springs. You'll never get plagued by knowing how awful or rather how much better new ones are than those cheap springs they put under it at the factory. to each his own...

 

[tjkj2002]

If you are referring to me probably not. You are proving my point. Tom throws "worn out" around without an actual reference to what that actually is. We, the ignorant, need to know what that refers to when deciding how to proceed. Just because a vehicle has *** miles on it doesn't mean it has "worn out" springs. All ya gotta do is take time to read my previous questions. What is "worn out" referring. I've been laughed at and told the highway has magnets BUT never been told what "worn out" is .... and I've been gracious enough to not make fun of anyone not having basic comprehension skills of the written word. I simply want an explanation so we understand each other when us, not in the profession, are discussing.

Note: in your driving seminar you only list strut and shock changes. The ride difference would be notable of course but if there was no spring changes the exercise would be moot as far as this issue is concerned.

It's a industry known fact that shocks/struts will be "worn out" at about 50,000 miles.Even the fancy Fox shocks on the new Ford Raptors require rebuilding to make it to there 1 million mile life and is part of that shocks normal maintenance as they are owner rebuildable.

You got 3 types of springs used in vehicles.........

Leaf springs which hold up longer then any other,just the nature of how they are made and leaf packs are more then one spring.

Coil springs which are the most common these days,they "wear out" or "sag" the fastest.

Torsion bars which are used in newer chevy full sizes,they tend to hold up better then coils but not as good a leafs and can be adjusted to acount for "sag" to a point.


The gradual decline in hieght and ride quality is slow that most will never notice untill new stuff is installed then it's a night/day difference and that is the point when non-believers become believers.Struts and shocks have zero effect on vehicle hieght(not including airshocks or magnetic shocks),struts/shocks are the safety factor which greatly effects how your vehicle handles and brakes.The springs,be it one of the three types, is the hieght factor.

 

[Redbone]

Worn out in here is 18 to 18.5 inches from center of hub to bottom of flare. Just note that you are going against the grain of this entire forum. You are challenging facts that have been know for years and years. You cannot get fired up with opposition to that.
Its a good thing you'll keep riding on the same old springs. You'll never get plagued by knowing how awful or rather how much better new ones are than those cheap springs they put under it at the factory. to each his own...

You could have stopped at the first sentence. I'm not challenging facts. I simply want to know what "worn out" is. I'm not going to change springs just because someone says mine are "worn out". I'll show a small portion of my epeter just to make a point. My son and I just finished a 1006 h.p. LT1 for his '96 Camaro. My point is when it comes to all things automotive I deal with specs. My point is if members on this board want to inform others they should use specifics to impress on the minds of others just how correct their info is. I'm being neither against the grain nor argumentative. Just discussing. Bench racing if you will. Folks shouldn't get their ******* in a wad.

 

[rockymountain]

You could have stopped at the first sentence. I'm not challenging facts. I simply want to know what "worn out" is. I'm not going to change springs just because someone says mine are "worn out". I'll show a small portion of my epeter just to make a point. My son and I just finished a 1006 h.p. LT1 for his '96 Camaro. My point is when it comes to all things automotive I deal with specs. My point is if members on this board want to inform others they should use specifics to impress on the minds of others just how correct their info is. I'm being neither against the grain nor argumentative. Just discussing. Bench racing if you will. Folks shouldn't get their ******* in a wad.

Mine are flapping in the wind. Yours are all wrapped up and stuffed into something.

 

[Redbone]

Its actually not moot, its a demonstration on how your vehicle's ride slowly degrades with worn parts, in that case shocks and struts. In your case it would be springs.

Since their was no test this would be a subjective thought. Informed as you appear to be a professional but not actually proven.

Take an identical vehicle with new springs, and I bet you will notice a difference. If you do some research at the motorist assurance program website, it may help define "worn out". The only thing I can tell you is, worn out means literally, out of the specification limits set by the OEM. In this case, worn out means the springs have sagged to the point that the ride height is no longer in spec. err go, worn out. Simple eh?

Simple when you directed me to specs. I haven't looked at them yet but I will. Worn out means worn out but no one knows until they have specs and info on how to use them.

As I never keep a car past 80k miles, even used ones, sagging springs is not a part of the vehicle I concerned myself with. Add to that I don't know of a single person, mechanics included, that changed out springs because they sagged. All of our suspension mods have been purpose driven. I'm not trying to piss anyone off. I'm learning and as you can tell, I am one of those guys that wants to know what the automotive tech knows. Not just the phrases used when telling the soccer mom her springs are "worn out".:emotions33::icon_razz:

Thanks tj. The guys above gave me the info I was looking for.

 

[Redbone]

Mine are flapping in the wind. Yours are all wrapped up and stuffed into something.

ohhhh ... u really think that bad of me?????? :killit: :disgust: :happy175: