our independant front suspension

[MKay]

i have been looking under trucks lately, and i notice that all the new onces save the wrangler and defender have IFS or even all round IS. some of these vehicles eg new LR discovery or landcruiser have awsome off road prowess.

so my question is why is ours so poor? we all want a SFA but why if IFS can be so good?

can we not just upgrade the IFS?

 

[Back-n-Black]

A lot of old school people will not accept new idea's. They are stuck in there ways because they know how it works and do not have to learn anything new. IFS is better in a ton of ways to SFA. The fastest offroad racers in the world use IFS. Take a look at the Baja trucks and stadium racing trucks. Also the King of Hammers rock/desert race had plenty of IFS rigs also. The biggest difference right now is the aftermarket and used parts supply. Right now a junkyard solid axle is supper cheap, even a brand new rubicon solid with lockers and good gearing as under $2000.

In comparison IFS parts are hard to find and expinsive. The shops that run them are race teams with race prices. And because people know a lot threw experience on how to do SFA and know little about the IFS they choose the road most traveled with least resistance.

 

[Treyz02KJ]

A lot of old school people will not accept new idea's. They are stuck in there ways because they know how it works and do not have to learn anything new. IFS is better in a ton of ways to SFA. The fastest offroad racers in the world use IFS. Take a look at the Baja trucks and stadium racing trucks. Also the King of Hammers rock/desert race had plenty of IFS rigs also. The biggest difference right now is the aftermarket and used parts supply. Right now a junkyard solid axle is supper cheap, even a brand new rubicon solid with lockers and good gearing as under $2000.

In comparison IFS parts are hard to find and expinsive. The shops that run them are race teams with race prices. And because people know a lot threw experience on how to do SFA and know little about the IFS they choose the road most traveled with least resistance.

^^

Exactly, So eloquent.

IFS is a savior for the way I drive, the handling is hands down better. Its just more moving parts so there for weaker. In my experience its just the CV joints, or boots that give you issues. My experience being one of the roughest ones the city streets could give it.

Check out the huge lift on the IFS.. *DROOL*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsT8voYKrqg

 

[Ry' N Jen]

First I'll say "Here we go again"!

A lot of old school people will not accept new idea's. They are stuck in there ways because they know how it works and do not have to learn anything new. IFS is better in a ton of ways to SFA. The fastest offroad racers in the world use IFS. Take a look at the Baja trucks and stadium racing trucks. Also the King of Hammers rock/desert race had plenty of IFS rigs also. The biggest difference right now is the aftermarket and used parts supply. Right now a junkyard solid axle is supper cheap, even a brand new rubicon solid with lockers and good gearing as under $2000.

In comparison IFS parts are hard to find and expinsive. The shops that run them are race teams with race prices. And because people know a lot threw experience on how to do SFA and know little about the IFS they choose the road most traveled with least resistance.

Oh, you forgot The Dakar series Rally raid (Ex Paris-Dakar) The most grueling and difficult off road racing series in the World.
And of course AM General's HMMWV.

 

[J-Thompson]

Simple answer
strength
there is NO IFS that the average Joe can buy that will compete with even a dana 44
let alone things like a GM 14 bolt or a dana 60
Then when it comes to trail riding which is what 95% of the average Joes do
you need suspension travel which I have never seen any IFS rig out flex a stock TJ
less the sway bar
more suspension travel = more stable
more stable = less a chance to flip
put it like this
I am comfortable at angles that would flip an IFS rig ,talking 1 wheel up and 2 others in the air

if this is hard to under stand look at a KJ with 245/75 MTR's and locked in the rear
then take a TJ with the same and locked rear
what makes it so that the TJ can walk up things that would kill the KJ
simple strength ,solid axles, and suspension

 

[HoosierJeeper]

To summerize it, it boils down to flex, and strengh. Most IFS system's can't handle tires over 33-35 inches. And when it comes time to repair, it's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

[Back-n-Black]

Stock TJ

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JBA 6" lift

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Just showing IFS with a little money invested can be just as flexy and stable as SFA.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Stock TJ

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JBA 6" lift

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Just showing IFS with a little money invested can be just as flexy and stable as SFA.

That's interesting...

 

[JeepJeepster]

Its all about the cost to upgrade. You cannot easily lift a kj as high as a solid axle and do it as cheap as you can a solid axle. All you need it a set of springs and shocks for a solid axle unless you go higher than 4-6" or so.

If you dont like your axle, heck, just roll it out and roll another one in. With us, were stuck with the weak Dana30a unless someone wants to do some major fab work which no one has ever done on the kj. Bigger companies do not see the profit in the kj so theyve never made anything good... Which is good for people like rocklizard..

 

[Marlon_JB2]

The story is online.

Chrysler could have put a much better IFS system on the KJ for a few extra dollars (can't remember but it was under $100/KJ)

If the engineers had their way...

However engineers don't have as much say as people think they do. The marketing people and the accountants have more say. So once they got their hands in it, we got what we have.

IFS can be built to be way better offroad than a solid axle. (From an engineering standpoint, NOT the backyard-handyman standpoint)

People just don't want to admit it.

 

[jnaut]

i have been looking under trucks lately, and i notice that all the new onces save the wrangler and defender have IFS or even all round IS. some of these vehicles eg new LR discovery or landcruiser have awsome off road prowess.

so my question is why is ours so poor? we all want a SFA but why if IFS can be so good?

can we not just upgrade the IFS?

I'm not sure if I would go so far as to suggest that "ours is so poor". My IFS has never been a burden to me, and that's despite some pretty decent offroading situations.

IFS in general simply doesn't have the travel that a solid front axle has. Anyone who continues to argue otherwise is wasting their breath. However, that doesn't mean that you can't take an IFS vehicle offroad. It just limits some types of offroading-- rockcrawling being one of the biggest barriers with IFS. But overall, when you consider the larger context of off-road driving, rock crawling is really a niche within the sport (if you dare to call it that).

For instance, I would seriously doubt any landrover could tackle serious rockcrawling when driven off the dealer's lot.

The other issues of IFS in general are liftability. Although this is an oversimplification, you can lift a solid front axle indefinitely, just keep getting longer shocks and bigger springs. You can't lift an IFS to these extremes because it distorts the joints out of whack and then you need to start extending other components to keep the IFS from failing.

 

[jnaut]

First I'll say "Here we go again"!




Oh, you forgot The Dakar series Rally raid (Ex Paris-Dakar) The most grueling and difficult off road racing series in the World.
And of course AM General's HMMWV.

Word.

If you watch the Baja 1000, you'll notice that the Supertruck class has all around IFS. But again, driving at 70mph on bumpy dirt roads is a far different sport than driving at 1mph and spending 45 minutes on a 12' obstacle. Rockcrawling's never been my thing. My goal is to keep moving. If I can simply drive around the rocks, I do so.

 

[jeepmedic46]

I like my ifs, expensive to lift but so far it has gotten me to where I needed to go to a fishing hole or camp site.(mud)(mud)

 

[jeepmedic46]

^^

Exactly, So eloquent.

IFS is a savior for the way I drive, the handling is hands down better. Its just more moving parts so there for weaker. In my experience its just the CV joints, or boots that give you issues. My experience being one of the roughest ones the city streets could give it.

Check out the huge lift on the IFS.. *DROOL*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsT8voYKrqg

Any idea What type of lift he has?

 

[tjkj2002]

Simple answer
strength
there is NO IFS that the average Joe can buy that will compete with even a dana 44
let alone things like a GM 14 bolt or a dana 60
Then when it comes to trail riding which is what 95% of the average Joes do
you need suspension travel which I have never seen any IFS rig out flex a stock TJ
less the sway bar
more suspension travel = more stable
more stable = less a chance to flip
put it like this
I am comfortable at angles that would flip an IFS rig ,talking 1 wheel up and 2 others in the air

if this is hard to under stand look at a KJ with 245/75 MTR's and locked in the rear
then take a TJ with the same and locked rear
what makes it so that the TJ can walk up things that would kill the KJ
simple strength ,solid axles, and suspension

X2...........

To get a IFS to be able to flex,be beefy,and function correctly your going to spend $60,000+ easy.Those Baja trucks are running $100,000 IFS systems,can you afford that?

For brute strength SFA is the way to gh and it is not easy to SFA a KJ correctly either.


About those 2 pics posted showing a TJ and a KJ on a RTI ramp,look at the TJ you will notice that the body is much more leval then the KJ is.The KJ is on the verge of rollover while the TJ is not.

 

[Dave]

Here we go again.......

Here it is in a nutshell.......ifs is better on the street and sfa is better off road.....so if you need a better trail rig start with a wrangler...sfa and all...but the KJ is not bad off road for an ifs rig.......

On the 25th I am going on a run and I am sure I will be stuck in the mud and strapped out....ifs or sfa......doesn't matter in the mud. I am sure Jeep Dawg will have pic's as I won't.

I am leaving now........

Dave

 

[tjkj2002]

Here we go again.......

Here it is in a nutshell.......ifs is better on the street and sfa is better off road.....so if you need a better trail rig start with a wrangler...sfa and all...but the KJ is not bad off road for an ifs rig.......

On the 25th I am going on a run and I am sure I will be stuck in the mud and strapped out....ifs or sfa......doesn't matter in the mud. I am sure Jeep Dawg will have pic's as I won't.

I am leaving now........

Dave

A stock Wrangler in no way has strong diffs,not even the Rubicons.I'm not saying IFS is bad but you do need massive amounts of cash to be as strong offroad as a SFA.The H1 was designed from the get go with IFS/IRS,and they did cost upwards of $100,000 also.I've taken my IFS to it's limits,the OEM KJ IFS can do alot and take alot of abuse but I passed that point so time for overkill axles to be installed,and the fact I want to gear correctly.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

A stock Wrangler in no way has strong diffs,not even the Rubicons.I'm not saying IFS is bad but you do need massive amounts of cash to be as strong offroad as a SFA.The H1 was designed from the get go with IFS/IRS,and they did cost upwards of $100,000 also.I've taken my IFS to it's limits,the OEM KJ IFS can do alot and take alot of abuse but I passed that point so time for overkill axles to be installed,and the fact I want to gear correctly.

The TJ is rated for about 33 inches (Dana 35 and 30?) The Rubi is about 35 I think...

 

[jnaut]

About those 2 pics posted showing a TJ and a KJ on a RTI ramp,look at the TJ you will notice that the body is much more leval then the KJ is.The KJ is on the verge of rollover while the TJ is not.

That was the first thing I noticed, too. But I didn't want to be nitpicky because it did have all 4 tires on the ground, so I figured I'd give it a pass.

 

[tjkj2002]

The TJ is rated for about 33 inches (Dana 35 and 30?) The Rubi is about 35 I think...

35" tires are out unless you switch to alloy axles and expect them to live for very long.