Need Advice and help Engine Jeep liberty 2003

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froggythe

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Hi I have a Jeep liberty 2003 3.7 automatic 132,000 miles with a p305 engine trouble . I took to my mechanic he did tests about a year ago .And said I would need to have my heads shaved for about 1200. Or a new engine . What is some advice on getting a good engine the brands to get or avoid . Some in my area are Dahmer, Tri Star and surefire . I asked a different mechanic and he said its not worth it . I also got conflicting answers from same mechanic .

And any information to help about this issue . AS of now I am still running it .The light is on . It runs good most of time .Lately its started to mis or not want to run more at different times shaking and having trouble .Only going about 20 . Then you stop restart it it runs fine. My mechanic retired and I need some help and advice whats best to do ? As the issue can start at any time and im worried about it . As of late it has gotten a little worse
Thank you very much .
 

wycowboy

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A P0305 code means that you are have a misfire detected on number 5 cylinder. That could be, and probably is, as simple as just needing a new spark plug and/or a coil on that cylinder. It could also be a vacuum leak into that cylinder requiring a new intake gasket. I seriously doubt you need a new engine. I am positive you need a new mechanic.
 

mrlavalamp

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If all you are seeing is a P0305 (cylinder 5 miss fire) and nothing else, then there could be a couple of MUCH easier things than an engine or head shaving required.

Typically if the ONLY symptom is a misfire in a single (and always the same) cylinder, than it could only be a handful of things.

This list is my order of likelihood (my opinion)
It could be the spark plug (when was the last time they were changed?)
It could be the fuel injector.
It could be the coil pack for this cylinder.


If your mechanic was suggesting shaving the head, then I am thinking he was looking at a bad headgasket or a warped head. Neither are the death of an engine if handled correctly, but the fact that you have been driving on it so long means that this is definitely not it, so not sure why he was bringing that up to you unless there is more to this or he was taking you for a ride (sorry if that is the case).
 
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LibertyTC

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All perfect advice above..^
I would like to see the part # & condition, even the gap of the spark plug from #5 photo please..
The jeep needs 6 of these installed every 35k, and check the gaps.
You must be registered for see images attach

I've been to a few shops, where I do begin to wonder who's working in there..
You must be registered for see images attach

:gr_grin:
 

froggythe

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Hi

Hi everyone thank you for your kind replys. My mechanic had never to my knowledge did anything scam wise prior . But anything is possible .


He said he checked everything coil and changed the spark plug 2-3 times now. One time it blew and the vehicle would barely run .he said he had to change plug and wire . Then it was fine ? But he did compression tests and thinks the heads are warped .he said you cant be sure till you have it checked.


But I will get photo of spark plug as someone asked .I will try to explain exactly what its doing.


The engine light is staying on . After changes spark plug it goes off tad bit then stays on . It seems when the car sits more not used a lot . It has this trouble more . But it will start fine then pull out or soon after starts loose all power and shake and not want to go . then you stop it and restart its fine . 1 time prior as I said above it was so bad until plug in 5 was changed .

And im worried I may been told something not correct as well. But the jeep runs pretty good or fine at times . But in past month is having more trouble in mornings . He told me to gun it . But there is little gunning it as when this starts you have no power . The misfire is always the same cylinder as far as I know . each time it was unless something new has started . But its running good most of the time . Until these episodes happen .
Also so I get everything in one message.
Are Tristar ,Dahmer or surefire good remanfucatured engines? IF that route is needed . Thank you very much for help


I forgot to add when it acts up the engine light blinks as well.
 
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LibertyTC

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Ok well...What do you mean by one time the spark plug blew..as in is there is a problem with the threads? loss of compression because of it?
He had to change the plug & wire, ahh..the jeep has a coil pack and a spark plug, only wire may be the electrical connector on coil pack?
He did compression test hopefully on all 6 cylinders, what were the readings in psi?
A leak down test would be beneficial as well, and refer only to the FSM for that procedure.
Generally if you suspect warped heads there will be signs like white smoke out the tailpipe or signs of coolant leak around gasket. Is the coolant tank /reservoir remaining at the full line or is it dropping having to add Hoat coolant?
Running problems then you turn off jeep & restart it and it's fine? Ahh that sounds like an electrical issue then & or check the injector pulse on 5 when its acting up.
Still need to know what spark plugs was installed and photo/color etc condition would be good to see.
I'm sure others may chime in to help, right now my brain hurts.
 

JasonJ

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Also should consider a failed lifter or issue with the valvetrain in just that one cylinder.. but this sounds absolutely nothing like a blown head gasket (especially since you've been driving it around with mostly no other issues) or a need for a replacement engine.

There are lots of data points we need to be able to help further. Specifics, like compression test numbers in PSI across all cylinders for one... a look at the spark plug, as was said... what brand coil was used? These vehicles can be picky/temperamental about that.

As to the guy who said it was not worth putting $1200 into it to fix (assuming that is needed, which I doubt), well.. that's very subjective. If the Jeep is in otherwise fine mechanical shape, and is not rusted to hell and back, it's easily worth twice that amount...

I look at it this way, if a vehicle is paid off, what would a monthly auto loan cost me? I usually buy used in the $10k-$11k range, tops... works out to about $200/month. If it costs me less than $2400/year to keep a paid for and otherwise fine vehicle going, I'm financially ahead.
 

froggythe

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Thanks again for help everyone .

No white smoke . No coolant leak, coolant level is fine and has been for long time .Oil as well. He said he took the coil out of 5 put it in another and it didn't give off any message. SO he tested that he said . The Psi reading was done 2 times and each time it showed compression loss .2nd time he said was lower or worse. Other was all fine . That has been good while since it was done . 1 thing I noticed I forgot to mention at times the engine light goes off. Soemtimes a day. Sometimes for 30 seconds but comes back on and stays on .

And blinks when acting up . The jeep runs very good normal when not doing this . I will get other stuff asked when possible . Looks like I might need a second opinion they may be missing something .Never had a issue with scam me .But something seems off as you guys said because we are driving it fine. Only car we have and have very ill family member . So thank you for all help .
 

wycowboy

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Whatever is going on it is not a blown head gasket or warped head. My best guess is it is an electrical issue that is being "fixed" from time to time when you shut off the engine and then restart it. It could also be an injector problem as was already mentioned. I also stand with my earlier suggestion about getting a different mechanic. I don't think your current one knows what he is doing.
 

froggythe

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Ty cowboy .The light stays on .Its lost compression. Im far from a mechanic . I appreciate all the help.Im taking your advice sir and going to get another look at it as you said . Last thing I forgot to mention . He said may be gas clog up it up .And to try pure gasoline . What would regular gasoline cause ? Also to the person said use correct coil what is the best to use ? .What brand Thank you very much again
 

froggythe

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I put a post on a you tube Mechanic Scotty.He said

Have someone Test the engines wet and dry compression tests in all cylinders. And if 5 is bad . Engine needs rebuilding ?
 

froggythe

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Scotty Kilmer on you tube said do wet and dry compression tests and if shows 5 is bad engine needs rebulding ? Is this because of carbon on valves or what ?
 

JasonJ

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Thanks again for help everyone .

No white smoke . No coolant leak, coolant level is fine and has been for long time .Oil as well. He said he took the coil out of 5 put it in another and it didn't give off any message. SO he tested that he said . The Psi reading was done 2 times and each time it showed compression loss .2nd time he said was lower or worse. Other was all fine . That has been good while since it was done . 1 thing I noticed I forgot to mention at times the engine light goes off. Soemtimes a day. Sometimes for 30 seconds but comes back on and stays on .

And blinks when acting up . The jeep runs very good normal when not doing this . I will get other stuff asked when possible . Looks like I might need a second opinion they may be missing something .Never had a issue with scam me .But something seems off as you guys said because we are driving it fine. Only car we have and have very ill family member . So thank you for all help .

That's hardly a conclusive test of the ignition coil; what if when moved to another cylinder just happens to be one of the times that it "self-corrects" for a bit.. you'd learn nothing. There are specific tests with a multi-meter that can and should be done with an ignition coil, primarily testing resistance across the primary and secondary windings.

To your points below, related to this one about a compression test: it should be done dry and wet- which means putting a bit of engine oil into the cylinder and re-testing. That checks whether the compression loss is from the rings or otherwise, and just how severe.

What really needs to be done is a cylinder leak down test.. that pressurizes the cylinder and holds it... you then see where the pressurized air is leaking.. is it down into the crankcase? Piston rings are shot.. is it into the cooling system, bubbles forming in the radiator or overflow tank? Blown head gasket between the cylinder seal and coolant galleys. Up and into the valve cover? Valves are not sealing for one or more of a half dozen reasons.

You can see just from what we are all posting here, the tests that can and should be done are intensive, specific, and numerous. It sounds like your mechanic is a little old school in that he just does the down and dirty quick tests that worked fine back in the 80s and earlier.

Also, the check engine light blinks when the misfire becomes persistent and severe. All modern vehicles do this as a warning to stop driving the vehicle as the problem has gotten bad enough that damage could occur; as opposed to a random cylinder misfire detected (code P0305), which means that the vehicle detected that sometimes, but not always, cyl 5 has a misfire.

Ty cowboy .The light stays on .Its lost compression. Im far from a mechanic . I appreciate all the help.Im taking your advice sir and going to get another look at it as you said . Last thing I forgot to mention . He said may be gas clog up it up .And to try pure gasoline . What would regular gasoline cause ? Also to the person said use correct coil what is the best to use ? .What brand Thank you very much again

This line about the gas clogging something up sounds like grasping for straws total horse crap. "Pure" gas? I assume he means gasoline without ethanol.. most fuel nowadays is 10% ethanol, an alcohol. Which is also a solvent.. so what the hell is in the gas that is supposed to be clogging only ONE cylinder? it would have to have selected just cylinder 5 fuel injector to clog.. and not the other 5.. what!? why?! how!? No! It's going to clog more than one if you had some containment in the fuel. And it would not necessarily go away for a bit..

Mopar coils are the best to use, as the Jeep prefers and is designed around the factory specified parts. Others have gotten fine results with some specific brands, I don't know which, they'll have to post here or you can search our forum threads- there are posts all about it.

I keep a drawer of 8 mopar coils pulled from a same-year Durango for mine... uncle seized the engine running it without oil and a bad head gasket.. so I snagged the coils since they are the same on the 4.7 as on the 3.7.

I put a post on a you tube Mechanic Scotty.He said

Have someone Test the engines wet and dry compression tests in all cylinders. And if 5 is bad . Engine needs rebuilding ?

Pretty much. If the compression test shows higher compression after performing it wet, with oil added to the cylinder, it indicates, as I previousl said, the piston rings are worn or damaged. This will necessitate a basic lower end rebuild at minimum. New rings, hone the cylinders, probably good time to toss in new crank and rod bearings too, but then you'd want the crankshaft turned. But if the bearings are fine with no signs of abnormal wear, I'd be inclined to just re-ring it and toss it back together.

Scotty Kilmer on you tube said do wet and dry compression tests and if shows 5 is bad engine needs rebulding ? Is this because of carbon on valves or what ?

It's because of worn piston rings. Carbon on valves can be cleaned off, but would not be affected by adding engine oil to the cylinder during a compression test.

During a cylinder leakdown test, however, carbon build up on the valves that is bad enough to keep them from closing properly (and holy hell that would be A LOT of carbon build up) would be evident as the cylinder leaked up and out through those valves.

I feel like this is either an intermittent failure on the fuel injector, or a problem with one of the valve lifters in the head. All/each of those can be replaced on their own provided that there is no further damage.
 

wycowboy

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A lot of gas sold these days is 10% ethanol. Pure gas does not have ethanol in it. I doubt that's it though. It could be a clogged up fuel injector. You could try running a cleaner through the engine. I suggest Sea Foam. You can get it at most auto parts stores. Just dump it in the gas tank. I use quality gas from a major supplier and it has ethanol in it. The ethanol has never caused me any issues on newer (post 2000 model year) vehicles I have owned.
 

froggythe

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Thank you again very much . Im starting to notice when the light starts blinking when I warm up car. If I turn it off it stops and the problems stops . This is repeatable and seems to work every time . Ive never had this happen . So a restart of car fixes it till it happens again. Which is always after its turned off. But not every time you start the car. But can happen anytime cold or warm . Thanks again for help . I just wanted to add that . As ive had time to notice it more .
 

JasonJ

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Thank you again very much . Im starting to notice when the light starts blinking when I warm up car. If I turn it off it stops and the problems stops . This is repeatable and seems to work every time . Ive never had this happen . So a restart of car fixes it till it happens again. Which is always after its turned off. But not every time you start the car. But can happen anytime cold or warm . Thanks again for help . I just wanted to add that . As ive had time to notice it more .

So, given all of that, and the info you now have, what is your next step?

More accurate diagnostic testing is needed. I should also note, that perhaps there is a shop near you that specializes in fuel injector testing and rebuilds..? I have one near me, Diesel Fuel Injection, Inc. .. they mostly work with diesels, obviously, but also can sell, rebuild and more importantly TEST any fuel injector. If you have a shop like that, it may be worth the small cost to have them validate whether the injector is good or not.

After that, I'd be inclined to pull the drivers' side valve cover and inspect the valvetrain for cyl 5. Luckily it's not an even numbered cylinder giving you fits.

I'd also be interested in seeing if there are more DTC's (diagnostic troublecodes) stored that perhaps your mech missed or just ignored.
 

J33Pfan

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Ty cowboy .The light stays on .Its lost compression. Im far from a mechanic . I appreciate all the help.Im taking your advice sir and going to get another look at it as you said . Last thing I forgot to mention . He said may be gas clog up it up .And to try pure gasoline . What would regular gasoline cause ? Also to the person said use correct coil what is the best to use ? .What brand Thank you very much again

IMO: If it were a Head gasket, where is the leak going? If your oil & coolant are clean and no missing coolant or over flows.. Heater works fine. Most likely not a head gasket. You wrote there's low compression. Ifs thats true, Fuel, FI and coils are not the problem.

with all the good advice that was mentioned here, I would say it could be a Valve/valve spring issue.

My P0303 issues are gone for now -after I replaced Bank 2,2 02 sensor. But I also disconnected the battery a lot to start a new learn cycle.
Other than that, I let the jeep warm up before I turn it off. Short trips caused P030X issues in the past.
I have a good OBD2 scanner and am keeping an eye on my 02 Sensors. Bank 2,1 is next on my list.
If you get a scanner you can clear your code and drive it normal. and yes you dont need a scanner to clear the code but its a great tool for the glove box. you'll learn a lot from it.

And dont forget to use the copper plugs with the proper gaps -listed on the hood.
 
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froggythe

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I did a error code check this morning with the key thing .

Now im getting a p300,304,305,306 and a p2305 . I looked up the p2305 has oil pressure . I noticed the oil light came on 3 days ago it was about 2 degrees . When I restarted it hasn't come on . But it looks like something else is wrong now .
 
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JasonJ

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I did a error code check this morning with the key thing .

Now im getting a p300,304,305,306 and a p2305 . I looked up the p2305 has oil pressure . I noticed the oil light came on 3 days ago it was about 2 degrees . When I restarted it hasn't come on . But it looks like something else is wrong now .

P0300 is general cylinder misfires detected, P0304, P0305, P0306 indicate specifically cylinders 3, 4, and 6. 3 is on the drivers side, 4 and 6 next to each on passenger side...

P2305 from my research has nothing to do with oil pressure. Where did you see that? It is "Ignition coil B/Secondary Circuit" malfunction.

https://www.google.com/search?q=p2305&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS753US753&oq=p2305&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Given we have a COP system (Coil On Plug), and you're seeing misfires on 3 different cyls, I'm thinking that you have a wiring issue with the ignition circuit.

I was leaning towards a valve lifter issue when it was just cylinder 5.... a single cylinder.. but three of them, on both sides of the engine... PLUS the ignition circuit malf code....

Starting to sound like an electrical concern to me. Follow that Google search result I linked... more info on P2305 and some who claim to have resolved it in various ways.

Good luck.
 

froggythe

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Hi Jason sir thank you very much for all your help . Is it possible the Pcm is bad? Would you still get low compression when it was tested last year ? Is all this separate issues you think ?

The error is a p0523 not 2305 if I wrote it wrong im sorry. Or if it makes a difference in numbers .Im not mechanic .


But we had a very big cold spell and the oil light came on .When I restarted it it hasn't come on since . And has done this in past . when its real cold . I never checked the codes . But I checked the oil its all fine nothing wrong . Good level all good .
 
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