More tire and rim stuff, what to do?

[trichard310]

Hello everybody, Im new to the forum and new to the jeep world. My new vehicle is a 03 liberty renegade w/lift(not sure the height, bought it that way. Approx 2.5 inch guessing???) Also has, 255/70R16 and 16x8 rims(not exactly sure of backspace or offset, guessing again 30-40 positive and at least 5" backspace). They rub horribly, and that is why Im here!

I need new rims and tires but, I dont know what to do. I've read sooooo much on line that I have confussed myself even more. I want the stance of the vehicle to be a little wider because I think it looks funny, I figured getting a negetive offset willl help this issue aswell as push the tires away from the suspension parts.

This is what Im thinking: 245/70R16 and 16x8 Ion Alloy 147's w/either 0 or -5 offset, approx 4.25 backspace. Will this work without rubbing? If not, Im open to suggestions, please help?

 

[tjkj2002]

Go with a 7" wide rim and keep the back spacing at around 4"-4.5" to keep the rubbing to a min.

 

[tommudd]

First where is it rubbing? If on the pinch wld then that is an easy fix. Or possibly your Lift has sagged since it could be a spacer lift. I have ran 255-70s and 265-70s on MOABs with 5 inch backspacing / 8 inches wide and no problems of course have an ARB which helps in the front which is where yours maybe rubbing as well.

If the lift has sagged then that may be more of a problem than anything.

But with a 7 inch wheel and the backspacing TJKJ mentioned with a 245-70 you should not have one problem

 

[trichard310]

First where is it rubbing? If on the pinch wld then that is an easy fix. Or possibly your Lift has sagged since it could be a spacer lift. I have ran 255-70s and 265-70s on MOABs with 5 inch backspacing / 8 inches wide and no problems of course have an ARB which helps in the front which is where yours maybe rubbing as well.

If the lift has sagged then that may be more of a problem than anything.

But with a 7 inch wheel and the backspacing TJKJ mentioned with a 245-70 you should not have one problem

Okay, so this is where things get all crazy! It sounds like its rubbing in numerous spots(mostly in the front while turning...swaybar???) with the most significant area being on the inner sidewall of the driver side tire. I have a trench worn in the sidewall of the tire where it rubs on the upper ball joint(figuring something is bent). In addition to this, it makes horrible, horrible sounds in the front end when going over speed bumps or any time the suspension is compressed. Its hard to describe the sound but it kinda sounds like bad struts, but more extreme(also worst when in a turn going over a bump). It also makes this sound during sudden stop's and go's. The stability at high speeds is a little sloppy side to side, it pulls slightly to the right, and the steering wheel shakes a little. I guess its safe to say I have more issues than just tire rub! Anyways, I wanted an 8inch rim because I cant find any 7inchers that I like. Also, I would need more of a neg offset to kick the 7incher out just a little more(wider stance), and I know that will put stress on the wheel bearings and ball joints. Thanks for the fast reply and keep em coming...Oh, almost forgot, is there a way to tell what kind of lift it has and how much. I seen some other liberty's today and I think mine may have a lift greater than 2.5 inch, it sits pretty tall??????? Thanks

 

[Ry' N Jen]

Wheel spacers will not over tax your wheel bearings any more than a wider set of wheels will.
As far as the rubbing goes, trimming, heat gun, and all that other fun stuff!

 

[trichard310]

Wheel spacers will not over tax your wheel bearings any more than a wider set of wheels will.
As far as the rubbing goes, trimming, heat gun, and all that other fun stuff!

That would be a great idea if I didn't live in Northern California....I believe wheel spacers are against the law here. I guess what they don't know, wont hurt them.peepwall.gif

What do u think about my other issues, any input????

 

[ThunderbirdJunkie]

Sounds like you have stock wheels with 255s.

Pretty normal for 255s to rub on the UBJ on a lifted KJ, although the only two ThunderbirdJunkie has encountered that with have had OTT lifts.

 

[J-Thompson]

255/70's on oe wheels and no rub

 

[ThunderbirdJunkie]

check when one of the front wheels is at full droop, Jason

 

[tommudd]

Sounds like you have a lot of problems if you are getting cracking and popping sounds. How about some pictures of the front and rear suspension, maybe we can tell what lift you have also measure from the midldle of the wheel to the bottom of the flare, this will give us some reference to lift height. You may need a new suspension to take care of the other problems

 

[tjkj2002]

I would need more of a neg offset to kick the 7incher out just a little more(wider stance),

And hence why you have so much rub.Keep the back spacing at 4"-4.5" for a 7" rim and keep the back spacing at 5" for a 8" rim,of course you will need a 2.5"+ lift.

 

[trichard310]

And hence why you have so much rub.Keep the back spacing at 4"-4.5" for a 7" rim and keep the back spacing at 5" for a 8" rim,of course you will need a 2.5"+ lift.

I was under the impression that a more neg/neutral offset would push the rims out, away from the UBJ and sway bar. Their is no rubbing in the wheel well or anywhere around the flares. I could push them out and still have room to articulate. I am hoping for an 8" rim with 0 offset, this would give me a 4" backspace and approx a 1.5" kickout...will this not work out good????? If not, what is the lowest offset I can go without issues? I really dont like the 'flat' wheel look, I like a little 'dish' in them.
This is where I got my info:
"Backspacing is a measurement of the distance from the mounting point on the wheel to the back of the rim. The greater the backspacing the closer the wheel to the Jeep and the more likely the wheel will rub on suspension components. The smaller the backspacing the more the wheel sticks out from the wheel well and the more likely the tires will throw mud up the side of the Jeep. A good rule of thumb is to keep the tires within the fender flares but far enough from the suspension components that they don't rub."

I have measured the distance from the center of the wheel hub to the bottom of the flares: The front is 21" on both sides and 20" in the rear.
I will try to get some pics soon.

The wheels are def. not stock. Im pretty sure they are 16x8 w/38-40mm offset. I think stock is 16x7 w/ 38mm offset and 5.5" backspace. I really appriciate all the responses, I hope this dont turn out bad!

 

[J-Thompson]

check when one of the front wheels is at full droop, Jason

No
the tires are to close to the UBJ and will rub on it
I only got them because ,needed new tires
price was right
I knew we were moving and the KJ was going to be doing a butt load of commuting so the milage was going to be pilling up and I also knew we would not be trail riding in it so the wheels were going to stay on flat ground
while I think i would be ok as is
I plan to go back to 245/75's in 30-40K ,when I get the KJ as my DD

 

[tommudd]

trichard

Pushing the wheels out will get you into more problems possibly. Then you will be hitting the flare, pinchweld, , bumper etc. KJ wheelwells are not that forgiving that you can hrow anything under there and it will work! Part of the problem is the lift it seems from your posts

 

[trichard310]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I think I'm gunna go with 16x8 rims w/
+12 offset and 5" backspace, linked w/235/75/r16. As for the rest of my problems, I think I'm gunna take it to the suspension shop for a pro opinion. One again, thanks for everyone's input.

 

[tommudd]

First 235-75-16s WILL never work on a 8 inch wheel, too narrow of a tire.
Second ....PRO OPINION

most shops do not even know what will or will not work on a KJ, they are used to installing 4 inch lifts on Red Wranglers. They only sell what they can get cheap and sell high

You want a Pro Opinion no better place than here and on LOST. Theres like maybe 10 of us who have done more KJ lifts than most shops in the country besides Rock Lizard and AllJs

No more preaching today

have a lift to do!
Rev. Mudd

 

[ThunderbirdJunkie]

Whattya liftin, Tom?

 

[tommudd]

Whattya liftin, Tom?

an LJ for a guy here in Toledo
more money than sense,
wants to pay someone to do everything for him
I think I really like the guy!
I gave him a price, he said thats too low, Diversified 4 Weel Drive wanted double that, I said OK and jacked up the price. Now hes happy and I am very happy! Just took him home, see I even do Taxi service!

Be nice to work on something besides a KJ!

 

[trichard310]

First 235-75-16s WILL never work on a 8 inch wheel, too narrow of a tire.
Second ....PRO OPINION

most shops do not even know what will or will not work on a KJ, they are used to installing 4 inch lifts on Red Wranglers. They only sell what they can get cheap and sell high

You want a Pro Opinion no better place than here and on LOST. Theres like maybe 10 of us who have done more KJ lifts than most shops in the country besides Rock Lizard and AllJs

No more preaching today

have a lift to do!
Rev. Mudd

Did I say 235, I meant 245's. That should work right????

As For the "PRO OPINION", Im simply refering to the diagnostics of my suspension problems, not trying to discredit anyones knowledge of the KJ. I think u guys def. know ur stuff and I've learned alot sense I joined this forum and appriciate the feedback. Most of my mechanical experience comes from old chevy trucks. I know little about modern suspensions and even less about mopar/chrysler. Its hard to describe my issues throught words, thats why I want a "Pro opinion" from the local suspension guru.

Back to this tire thing. It seems to me that there is rubbing issues no matter what somebody sticks under there KJ. It seems to me that jeep didnt do enough homework on this issue.(too many discrepencies w/ the KJ, I tell ya) Never have these issues with an old chevy. I mean come on, I cant even find any rims I like because the option on what will fit are sooooooooooooo limited.

Anyways, 'Pros', give it to me straight. what is my best option for tire size on 8" rims w/5" backspace. Am I way off with the 245/75/16. Like I said before, right now I have 255/70/16 and they suck ass. Granted, I think the rims may be the big problem. Thanks everyone

 

[tommudd]

Goes back to what lift you have
On mine I have ran 245-75/ 255-70/ 265-70 and now 265-75s and haven't had any problems. All of the above have been on 8 inch wide, 5 inch backspacing Moab Wheels from a Wrangler Rubicon. I also have a ARB front bumpwer so that helps with any rubbing on the front lower portion. I also have what some would maybe call a 3.5 to 3.75 inch lift, pinch welds pounded over.
Just from what I have read I would say you need to start with a new lift and replace whatever else may be bad and go from there. If its a spacer type lift then they have been known to cause problems. But since we don't know thats only an assumption