KJ Gone To Clunkerville

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Boiler

New Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
506
Reaction score
1
Location
Muncie Indiana
I have to guess a LOT of people screwed themselves using CARS. I mean, what percentage of people that own a car thats worth less than 3500 can actually afford a new car? Well, most new cars anyway, I know there are some real cheapos out there.

I'm guessing its just that most people just took it in the rear one either
1) getting too little for their old car
2) going beyond their means by buying a new car.
 

jnaut

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
2,233
Reaction score
9
Location
Seattle
Those "dishonest" people are not eligible as the EPA wants documentation for all of their ownership records. It's not as easy as it sounds.

1. The vehicle must be owned and reg'd with the buyer for the new vehicle for a year.
2. The vehicle must be insured with the buyer for the new vehicle for a year (unless your state doesn't require insurance, Michigan dang sure does.)
3. The vehicle MUST average, ACCORDING TO THE EPA NUMBERS, 18 MPG or less, PERIOD.
4. The vehicle you're buying MUST average at least 4 MPG better, and even then you're ONLY getting a $3500 credit towards the new vehicle (to be taken off of the price of the new vehicle at the dealership). In order to get the full $4500, it has to average 10MPG or better.
5. It's not called "Cash for Clunkers" It's called the "Car Rebate Allowance System" Also known as "CARS".
6. It must not be older than 25 years old, and this is determined by the BUILD DATE.
7. You can get more than $4500, depending on the scrap value of your vehicle, which is determined by the local junkyards, and such. Dealerships are allowed $50 of your vehicle's scrap value for administration fees, etc.
8. The vehicle must NOT have any liens on the title.

In short, it's NOT worth it unless your vehicle is (realistically) worth less than $3500 at the time of trade in.

Here's an article about a guy who scammed the CFC program.

http://www.reason.com/news/printer/135243.html

Snippet:

Mr. Sparkles doesn't live extravagantly. He says his government-subsidized 2009 Nissan Versa sedan is the first new car he has purchased since 1987. Here's the final math: The car cost $11,998.50 at the till, including tax and fees. The Feds subtracted $4,500 from the bill. That's $7,498.50 plus the $1,000 that changed hands between friends.

A brand new sedan for less than $9,000 ain't bad. But the price could have been better, he says. His first stop for the trade-in was Passport Nissan in Alexandria, Virginia, because the dealership had a slightly cheaper "Internet price" available. But the Versa was popular with the newly-declunkered, and by the time he arrived the best price the dealer would offer was $1,000 higher. As with higher education and houses, when the government offers to cover a chunk of your costs, savvy sellers know to jack up the price.
 

jnaut

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
2,233
Reaction score
9
Location
Seattle
Wow they really tightened it up then, because i looked over the paperwork at the local dealer when they first started it and it wasn't near that difficult to get the rebate then.

They did say the funding ran out way too soon, so i guess with the next batch of funding comes stricter requirements.

The funding did not run out way too soon. It ran out EXACTLY as fast as anyone with even a cursory knowledge in economics would guess it would: very fast.

When you put a pile of free money on the street with a sign saying "Come'n git it!", the money's not going to last long.

BTW: KBOnly, I just read my above message. I Apologize, it sounds kind of like I'm taking you to task, I'm not. I'm just annoyed with this CFC program is all.
 
Last edited:

jnaut

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
2,233
Reaction score
9
Location
Seattle
Only fair I answer a few of these type question/statements.

My wife and I did hem and haw about a private sale. At length, sometimes loudly with swear words, get my drift? And in the end, it boiled down to this, how long will it take to sell, will it sell? We've been down the private sale road many times in the past with good results, but with the current economic situation around here, everybody wants something for nothing. So the decesion was made to get a guaranteed $4500, that my wife and I actually helped create, back from Uncle Sam. As an added bonus, I did not have to recon the Jeep for sale, just took everything out and drove it to the dealer.

Your reasoning is perfectly valid. CFC is going to draw people in who are right on the edge who don't want the hassle of trying to figure out if they'll get lucky or not. Also, there are a buttload of used cars which are 24 years old out there that people won't get $500 for. I used to drive one. An 88 Corrolla. Paint in bad shape, leaking heads, brakes in god knows what condition, 250,000+ miles, never replaced a timing chain... torn fabric seats, failing headliner, two broken front turn signals-- a true clunker. You think I would have passed up $4500 for that? Hell noes.
 

Dave

Administrator
KJ Supporting Member
KK Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
15,567
Reaction score
15
Location
on here
Your reasoning is perfectly valid. CFC is going to draw people in who are right on the edge who don't want the hassle of trying to figure out if they'll get lucky or not. Also, there are a buttload of used cars which are 24 years old out there that people won't get $500 for. I used to drive one. An 88 Corrolla. Paint in bad shape, leaking heads, brakes in god knows what condition, 250,000+ miles, never replaced a timing chain... torn fabric seats, failing headliner, two broken front turn signals-- a true clunker. You think I would have passed up $4500 for that? Hell noes.

jnaut...sounds like it wasn't worth yesterday's "no hit" lottery ticket.

Dave
 

HoosierJeeper

Gold Supporter/Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
20,858
Reaction score
269
Location
Western WI
Not Bad:













You must be registered for see images attach

More Photos

Condition
You must be registered for see images
Value
Excellent
$10,500


Good
$9,900


Fair
$8,900

You must be registered for see images attach
SEARCH LOCAL LISTINGS


Free CARFAX Record Check

You must be registered for see images attach
Powered by

VIN:

No VIN? No Problem!
 

Marlon_JB2

Kombat Edition Jeep
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Messages
15,052
Reaction score
106
Location
Harrison Township, MI
I have to guess a LOT of people screwed themselves using CARS. I mean, what percentage of people that own a car thats worth less than 3500 can actually afford a new car? Well, most new cars anyway, I know there are some real cheapos out there.

I'm guessing its just that most people just took it in the rear one either
1) getting too little for their old car
2) going beyond their means by buying a new car.

Well...
Not everyone is like that, as you've said. Take my aunt and uncle for instance.

Aunt; Retired from the School System
Uncle; Retired, coal miner

Both receive very nice pension checks. House is paid off.. and has been for probably like 20 years. So are both of their current cars. They have no credit card debt. They have a savings account. So there are a few people out there who drive CARS eligible vehicles which can be described as "clunkers".
'80 something Ford Crown Victoria
'99 Dodge Durango

I have another aunt and uncle who basically fit the same situation, except only one of their cars is CARS eligible, a '98 Durango. I don't think their Chrysler 300 fits, but who would do something like that?

Both of those Durangos and the Ford fit, and run great. However they'd be great candidates for the CARS money simply because all of them have TONS of miles on them and they'd NEVER get anything for them for trade in or private sale. the '99 has 180k, the '98 has 260k. The Crown Vic has so many miles on it my uncle has forgotten how many times the odometer has rolled over. :p

I say they should get rid of the Crown Vic, but the problem is that.....

My aunt is cheap and told my poor uncle he couldn't have a car payment. Keep in mind they clearly CAN afford it... she just said NO to him as usual. lol3.gif

Sometimes I wonder if she's ever given him permission to do anything! LOL
 

kb0nly

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
2,165
Reaction score
5
Location
Planet Earth
The funding did not run out way too soon. It ran out EXACTLY as fast as anyone with even a cursory knowledge in economics would guess it would: very fast.

When you put a pile of free money on the street with a sign saying "Come'n git it!", the money's not going to last long.

BTW: KBOnly, I just read my above message. I Apologize, it sounds kind of like I'm taking you to task, I'm not. I'm just annoyed with this CFC program is all.

No offense taken man! I'm really annoyed at this crap too and i knew what you were getting at, read between the lines!

What i'm worried about, and what hardly anyone has talked about, is that its going to turn into another MORTGAGE FIASCO...

Ok, what am i talking about??

I hear this over and over and over, "since we got $4500 credit on the new car we figured heck why not get a new vehicle now instead of wait"... Umm, yeah, but the problem is a lot of people are jumping on this program because of valid reason that might end up biting them in the ass.

Let me give you an example.

An older couple two blocks down from me traded in their older 88 Royale last week, it was a 93 and had 192,000 miles on it and the Dodge dealership they took it to out of town qualified it and wrote it up. They got a new 300M i think it is, nice looking car, and they got it for a good price. But these people are living on social security and retirement benefits and haven't had to make a car payment in ten years. Now they are taking on a car payment, higher insurance cost not only because of the newer car but because of being a senior driver as well, and you should have seen the looks on their faces when they found out how much plates and tabs were going to cost them. I can't imagine what they will do when the tabs come due next year, they will probably have to give up eating for a couple weeks to pay the $96 for the tabs. Their old car was costing them state minimum, $39.50.

Some people don't factor in all the costs involved. If however you were planning on getting a newer vehicle, had the money to do it, and can afford everything thats one thing, go for it, get a good deal while you can! But if your using the program to get a discount on a new car that you might not otherwise buy because you can barely afford to then DON'T PLEASE!!

I'm waiting to see how many of these new vehicles get repo'd and how many banks take a hit on unpaid auto loans being defaulted on. The next loan crisis is coming now, even experts being interviewed on MSNBC the other day were mentioning this possibility.

Oh, and to the OP, it needed a power steering pump, $50 or less... I still think you could have sold it private party for a good amount, someone out there would have loved the chance at a fixer upper when they can't afford a new one. Thats the other unfortunate backlash here, its taking used vehicles off the market that could go to help out people less fortunate to be able to afford something new and the costs that go with it. Used car lots around me are darn near empty, the last used car dealer auction was a flop, about a dozen vehicles that were too new and overpriced for the small dealers to buy.
 

Boiler

New Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
506
Reaction score
1
Location
Muncie Indiana
What i'm worried about, and what hardly anyone has talked about, is that its going to turn into another MORTGAGE FIASCO...

Ok, what am i talking about??

I hear this over and over and over, "since we got $4500 credit on the new car we figured heck why not get a new vehicle now instead of wait"... Umm, yeah, but the problem is a lot of people are jumping on this program because of valid reason that might end up biting them in the ass.

Let me give you an example.

An older couple two blocks down from me traded in their older 88 Royale last week, it was a 93 and had 192,000 miles on it and the Dodge dealership they took it to out of town qualified it and wrote it up. They got a new 300M i think it is, nice looking car, and they got it for a good price. But these people are living on social security and retirement benefits and haven't had to make a car payment in ten years. Now they are taking on a car payment, higher insurance cost not only because of the newer car but because of being a senior driver as well, and you should have seen the looks on their faces when they found out how much plates and tabs were going to cost them. I can't imagine what they will do when the tabs come due next year, they will probably have to give up eating for a couple weeks to pay the $96 for the tabs. Their old car was costing them state minimum, $39.50.

Some people don't factor in all the costs involved. If however you were planning on getting a newer vehicle, had the money to do it, and can afford everything thats one thing, go for it, get a good deal while you can! But if your using the program to get a discount on a new car that you might not otherwise buy because you can barely afford to then DON'T PLEASE!!

I'm waiting to see how many of these new vehicles get repo'd and how many banks take a hit on unpaid auto loans being defaulted on. The next loan crisis is coming now, even experts being interviewed on MSNBC the other day were mentioning this possibility.

My thoughts exactly. Yeah, there are some frugal people that buy new(ish) cars and drive them into the ground. But I'm willing to bet a dollar that at least half of the people that used CARS either tossed out a vehicle worth more than 4500 or they shouldn't be buying new due to the finances. I mean, just look at how many people throw their cars away daily by trading them in for way less than they are worth...or for how much the dealer would have come down anyway.

Yep, I too see many repo's in the near future.

I agree that it ***** to take all of these perfectly fine cars off the market. In no way are my comments here a political statement. I thought we could really use some incentive to buy and make more efficient cars. Instead of destroying the cars that poorer people need to keep prices down, why not just give incentives for high milage vehicles? Buy a new car that gets 25 mpg, uncle sam hands you a $2,000 bill. Or he hands one to the car companies for SELLING one. Might give them some incentive to get their crap together and makes some deals too.
 
Last edited:

kb0nly

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
2,165
Reaction score
5
Location
Planet Earth
Yep, i don't like the whole thing, it just stinks.

I'm not well off by any means, family of five, but the bills get paid, and i know there are people worse off than me. A gal my wife knows bought a $700 car to go back to school, finish her degree now that she has a little more money, and it took her months to find that car. Sure it looks like crap, but it runs good and it gets decent mileage, so what the heck, if it lasts her a year without any major problems than at least it got her by.

The problem is this program is taking some perfectly good vehicles that could serve a much more useful life on the road for some less fortunate people. What they should have been doing is taking the nicer ones and donating them to these programs that help people find a cheap car for work or school.

But then i don't work for the government, i just live here...
 

oddball

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
314
Reaction score
1
If we can get back to the original topic for a moment - is the new Subaru Forester qualified (vs the '03 KJ he gave up) for CARS?
 

Dave

Administrator
KJ Supporting Member
KK Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
15,567
Reaction score
15
Location
on here
If we can get back to the original topic for a moment - is the new Subaru Forester qualified (vs the '03 KJ he gave up) for CARS?

It must be. I thought that's what he said he got.

A patriot would probably qualify too.

Dave
 

oddball

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
314
Reaction score
1
Interesting.

Btw; wasn't Jeep (Chrysler) matching the gov't $4,500 for those who qualified?
 

moparman

Full Access Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
376
Reaction score
0
Location
Baltimore, MD
Politics aside, CFC has people buying and inventories are low. Ford and GM wll be increasing production and Chrysler can't be far behind. A friend of mine was considering a new KK and jumped on a Silver Limited because it just came in and the lot has been nearly empty.
 

sootie007

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
76
Reaction score
0
Location
Clermont Florida
Current values

Getting back to current KJ prices I bought 2 2002 kj's this year in Florida both with 95k on the clocks and in awesome shape ...the first I paid 5300 for it... Limited, 3.7 , 2 wd,auto 2 owners -wife is driving that , the second 4wd , sport , 3.7 ,auto , 1 owner, $4400- I am driving that one .....in these times I am glad I am driving something paid off , pray they stay together for the time being and just dont feel comfortable with a payment over my head until this economy picks up again.....I looked around for 3-5 months finding these 2 deals but they are out there ......J
 

flair1111

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
847
Reaction score
0
Location
usa
But more good used parts will be available,well everything but the engine.

dont know about that. from the bill i read, the entire vehichle cannot be resold. not even 1 part of it. now im sure it doesnt stop some places from doing so, but to my understanding of it, the whole thing cannot be scrapped for parts. they are crushed and sent out as scrap metal overseas. very very sad indeed. follow the money and youll see whos getting the most out of this whole deal. i would have gave $4500 for it just to have a spare sitting around....of course things could have changed in the bill.
 
Last edited:

Bikeflyer

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
126
Reaction score
19
Location
Strasburg, PA
I work in a very large auto auction(Manheim Pa Auto auction) and it has been SLOOOWWW. I don't know if it is related but the last 2 months have been very lousy for us commissioned body shop techs. We get paid by how many we process not by the hour and this month I am not even at half of my normal ammount. Near 6 days out of work for this month alone and it's not over yet! I don't agree with the means, but I do agree somewhat with the concept of trying to eliminate the poor mileage out of the pool. Otherwise they would remain in circulation indefinitely. A coworker wanted to legitimately clunker his taurus wagon (170k miles) and it BURNS and SPRAYS oil to the tune of a 1:1 with gas but they denied it because it supposedly gets too good mileage.
If it was simply a matter of decomissioning the engine it would not be so greivous, but the sources I have seen all say total elimination.
 
Top