kb0nly
Full Access Member
Here is mine...
03' Sport
This is just trade-in value, private party is of course higher.
03' Sport
This is just trade-in value, private party is of course higher.
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KJ Gone To Clunkerville
- Thread starter valvestem
- Start date
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Prospect62
Full Access Member
Why is your 03 Sport worth $3500 more than my 02 Sport? Because mine has 107,000 miles and a 5-speed? That's a crock man. That really ****** me off!
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...90|true&Condition=Good&QuizConditions=#survey
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/Pri...90|true&Condition=Good&QuizConditions=#survey
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tjkj2002
Full Access Member
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Here's mine................
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport/2002_Jeep_Liberty_4274_Trade-In_Excellent.aspx?SelectionHistory=4274|31232|80918|0|0|166303|true|166313|true|166317|true|166346|true&Mileage=68000&PriceTypePath=Retail
My KJ qualifies as excellent condition,it's retail value is still $12,100.
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport/2002_Jeep_Liberty_4274_Trade-In_Excellent.aspx?SelectionHistory=4274|31232|80918|0|0|166303|true|166313|true|166317|true|166346|true&Mileage=68000&PriceTypePath=Retail
My KJ qualifies as excellent condition,it's retail value is still $12,100.
Prospect62
Full Access Member
tjkj, if you tried to trade that in (like you ever would) they'd offer you some rediculously low amount. They can't resell such a heavily modified vehicle. To the auction!
And how is YOUR 02 Sport worth $2600 more than MY 02 Sport?????? It's gotta be the milage and the manual.
And how is YOUR 02 Sport worth $2600 more than MY 02 Sport?????? It's gotta be the milage and the manual.
tjkj2002
Full Access Member
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Actually I have seen what they would offer me for actual trade in,as in they actually seen my KJ(still IFS though) and was offered way less then $4500,even less then $3500,oh and modified Jeeps(and the like) actually sell pretty good here in Colorado.But yeah I'd never sell mine,but it is currently appraised at $31,000 for insurance reasons.
Oh and I have a Limited and not a Sport,that and having only 68,000miles makes the value higher even being older.
Marlon_JB2
Kombat Edition Jeep
KBB is worthless. You'll get REAL trade in values when you start shopping around at dealerships. I tried trading my Avenger for my WK to get back into a Jeep, and I was getting $3k under KBB value. LUCKILY someone called me for a private sale and THEN that's when I got the KBB Private Sale value. (He was extremely stupid)
KBB Trade-In for my sister's KJ is $9775.
I KNOW for a FACT that the local dealerships will ONLY give her $8,000 IF SHE'S LUCKY because that's what one dealer told her one day. Most dealers in my area are usually within $1-$1.5K of each other.
IF she attempted to private sell it, she'd just break even considering how much she owes on it. So yeah... KBB is an imaginary guide to geek owners up thinking their vehicles are worth more than they actually are.
KBB Trade-In for my sister's KJ is $9775.
I KNOW for a FACT that the local dealerships will ONLY give her $8,000 IF SHE'S LUCKY because that's what one dealer told her one day. Most dealers in my area are usually within $1-$1.5K of each other.
IF she attempted to private sell it, she'd just break even considering how much she owes on it. So yeah... KBB is an imaginary guide to geek owners up thinking their vehicles are worth more than they actually are.
incommando
Banned
How many auto auctions & late-model used car lots, which are generally mom & pop, not huge corporations, are going to be hit hard by these cars being crushed instead of re-sold?
kb0nly
Full Access Member
I only have 46k on the clock here, and the 5-speed does make a difference. I played around with it and selecting a manual trans instead of auto trans and keeping everything else the same puts me about $1100 less because of the manual trans.. That surprises me! I would rather have a manual but i couldn't find a nice KJ with a manual that was also a 4x4, lots of manuals here that are 2wd, i was starting to think they only made 5 speeds in 2wd.
As for KBB prices... Well they aren't perfect, but what i like to do is take the private party and trade-in value and come up with an average number, that's pretty darn close to what the dealers around here are at.
The NADA guide is a little closer to that average number also.
kb0nly
Full Access Member
Hard...
I know a guy here that runs a little family used car lot, he said the auctions have dried up. And people are even going out and buying a $500 clunker so they can take it to the dealer and get $4500 in credit. How dishonest is that crap??
I did see that they put income limits on the program now, i guess too many people with the money that shouldn't get the credit were taking advantage of it. The Chevy dealership here said they had people rolling in wearing a nice suit and driving a rusted out truck they know darn well isn't their daily driver to get the $4500 credit on a new luxury car.
Marlon_JB2
Kombat Edition Jeep
Those "dishonest" people are not eligible as the EPA wants documentation for all of their ownership records. It's not as easy as it sounds.
1. The vehicle must be owned and reg'd with the buyer for the new vehicle for a year.
2. The vehicle must be insured with the buyer for the new vehicle for a year (unless your state doesn't require insurance, Michigan dang sure does.)
3. The vehicle MUST average, ACCORDING TO THE EPA NUMBERS, 18 MPG or less, PERIOD.
4. The vehicle you're buying MUST average at least 4 MPG better, and even then you're ONLY getting a $3500 credit towards the new vehicle (to be taken off of the price of the new vehicle at the dealership). In order to get the full $4500, it has to average 10MPG or better.
5. It's not called "Cash for Clunkers" It's called the "Car Rebate Allowance System" Also known as "CARS".
6. It must not be older than 25 years old, and this is determined by the BUILD DATE.
7. You can get more than $4500, depending on the scrap value of your vehicle, which is determined by the local junkyards, and such. Dealerships are allowed $50 of your vehicle's scrap value for administration fees, etc.
8. The vehicle must NOT have any liens on the title.
In short, it's NOT worth it unless your vehicle is (realistically) worth less than $3500 at the time of trade in.
1. The vehicle must be owned and reg'd with the buyer for the new vehicle for a year.
2. The vehicle must be insured with the buyer for the new vehicle for a year (unless your state doesn't require insurance, Michigan dang sure does.)
3. The vehicle MUST average, ACCORDING TO THE EPA NUMBERS, 18 MPG or less, PERIOD.
4. The vehicle you're buying MUST average at least 4 MPG better, and even then you're ONLY getting a $3500 credit towards the new vehicle (to be taken off of the price of the new vehicle at the dealership). In order to get the full $4500, it has to average 10MPG or better.
5. It's not called "Cash for Clunkers" It's called the "Car Rebate Allowance System" Also known as "CARS".
6. It must not be older than 25 years old, and this is determined by the BUILD DATE.
7. You can get more than $4500, depending on the scrap value of your vehicle, which is determined by the local junkyards, and such. Dealerships are allowed $50 of your vehicle's scrap value for administration fees, etc.
8. The vehicle must NOT have any liens on the title.
In short, it's NOT worth it unless your vehicle is (realistically) worth less than $3500 at the time of trade in.
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kb0nly
Full Access Member
Wow they really tightened it up then, because i looked over the paperwork at the local dealer when they first started it and it wasn't near that difficult to get the rebate then.
They did say the funding ran out way too soon, so i guess with the next batch of funding comes stricter requirements.
They did say the funding ran out way too soon, so i guess with the next batch of funding comes stricter requirements.
Marlon_JB2
Kombat Edition Jeep
Been like that since the beginning. I've been keeping up on this since they first started discussing it.
Marlon_JB2
Kombat Edition Jeep
A lot of dealerships were just giving the rebate away, which is exactly why a lot of them have been denied payment! (***** for them!)
kb0nly
Full Access Member
Ahh ok, thats probably what it was then. Because the dealer here in town was giving them away so fast that their side lot filled up with old beaters, and i know for a fact that most of the people that brought them in hadn't owned them for a year let alone a month.
Marlon_JB2
Kombat Edition Jeep
Well they just lost thousands of dollars then.
Sad part about it is, the dealerships are now going after the owners for the money. They have no recourse.kb0nly
Full Access Member
I was wondering about what will happen, but its all water under the bridge now. The guy that owns the dealership has been telling people that he doesn't care though, even after the so-called rebate he still made money off the increase in sales, so in the end what do they care!
You should have seen the guys having fun with the clunkers, running them into the dumpster, into each other, playing tug of war until the motors conked out, etc..
It was just stupidity at the governments best.
You should have seen the guys having fun with the clunkers, running them into the dumpster, into each other, playing tug of war until the motors conked out, etc..
It was just stupidity at the governments best.
I wouldn't do it if my KJ was a clunker. I'm philosophically opposed to this program.
valvestem
Full Access Member
Exactly, the odometer was getting up there, I was hearing power steering pump noises and a couple of other things that pushed me forward to the deal. I had not put much (see further below) into the Jeep for at least three years, so I was getting worried it was going to turn into a money-pit soon, and we all know where that leads to. I too, feel bad that the Jeep could not be resold to someone who knew better than I do to do their own repairs, it was still pretty solid. Some rust was breaking through on the lower inside edges of the door panels, so she might not have passed a state inspection due in December.
I will tell you this, the Forester is not a Jeep or truck, it's a car. It rides like a car, handles like a car, sounds like a car, and does not even have the nice "WHUMP" sound when the doors are closed.
All in all, I'd rate my ownership of the Liberty at 8 on a 1-10 scale, mainly because it required significant expensive brake work about 4 years ago, and recently the rear axle seals failed ( and took the rear disk brake pads with them from oil contamination) and had to be replaced. During the course of my ownership, I replaced the tires, and the aforementioned brakework and seals. The 2003 Jeep was bought used in 2004, and had formerly been a rental for Enterprise.
Just one more thought, I think the rear axle seals failing, put me on the edge of the moneypit about to fall in.
I'll check back here all the time to input what I have learned, and share my knowledge with whomever needs it.
valvestem
valvestem
Full Access Member
Only fair I answer a few of these type question/statements.
My wife and I did hem and haw about a private sale. At length, sometimes loudly with swear words, get my drift? And in the end, it boiled down to this, how long will it take to sell, will it sell? We've been down the private sale road many times in the past with good results, but with the current economic situation around here, everybody wants something for nothing. So the decesion was made to get a guaranteed $4500, that my wife and I actually helped create, back from Uncle Sam. As an added bonus, I did not have to recon the Jeep for sale, just took everything out and drove it to the dealer.
Also, I live in the wonderful state of Maine, where we have one of the most strict state motor vehicle inspection law(s) in the country, that helped deciding whether or not to keep a 6 year old vehicle any longer
valvestem
Full Access Member
I take exception to that guy's statement running the family lot.
The rules are: You must have owned the clunker car for a year or longer, and prove it by producing state registration certificates, and it must have been insured for at least a year by the registered owner, and proved by producing the certificates of insurance or the policy. Notice I said certificates plural? You need the current certificates AND last years.
