Headlights quit

Discussion in 'KJ General Discussion' started by FLCapt, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. FLCapt

    FLCapt New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019
    I purchased my '05 Limited a few months ago, the previous owner had changed the stock headlights to LED. All was fine for several months, now all of a sudden, no headlights. I swapped the relay with the high beams - no joy. When I jumper the lights directly to the battery, they work. Everything else in the Jeep works normally. Interestingly, when I purchased the Jeep - it had no hi beams - just the LEDs that were seriously bright on low beam. I figured that was normal for an LED install? The parking lights and tail lights are working fine, so that leads me to believe the switch stalk is fine. All fuses are good as well. Since I didn't install the lights, and the previous owner's contact info is gone, I'm not sure where to go next. A bad ground possibly? Anyone ever have this problem? I didn't find anything similar with a thread search. Power is not getting to the connector that plugs into the lights. Any insight will be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. mrlavalamp

    mrlavalamp Full Access Member

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    27
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Location:
    Sin City
    How are the aftermarket leds connected?

    Mine came with a different standard end but also had an adapter cable that matched the KJ's harness. plug and play no splicing.

    If the wires are spliced then you are going to need to trace colors and see if they crossed something up. Service manual has diagrams in 8w.

    Not sure exactly what model led you are dealing with but most function like regular high/lo beams.
     
  3. Billwill

    Billwill Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    144
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Location:
    White River, South Africa
    The "switch stalk" ie. the Multifunction Switch has several switches inside it so there could be a problem with only the hi beam/low beam section.

    Download the 2005 Jeep KJ Service Manual here, Section 8W has the wiring diagrams and the Index at the front of 8W gives you a Component Location so you can get straight to the diagrams for the Multifunction Switch.

    www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/
     
  4. FLCapt

    FLCapt New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019

    No clue what brand or model of LEDs in there. It does appear that there is an adapter cable from the stock harness to the LED bulbs. Can't see anywhere that the stock harness was messed with.
     
  5. FLCapt

    FLCapt New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019

    I got some new relays and switched them out, in the process discovered that my original relays are fine. Now the high beams are working! No low beams. Swapped in new relays, old relays, all the relays are good. Only high beams working. When I got the Jeep, the low beams worked fine, when I hit the switch for high beams, the blue light in the dash came on, but the headlights didn't get any brighter. They flashed as if the highs were coming on, but no brighter. I just assumed it was because of the LED retrofit. Now I have the blue light for high beams on the dash, and working headlights. Switch back to low beams - nothing. I have good relays, and good fuses. Unless there is another relay or something on the inside of the panel where the low beam relay is. I will download the manual you suggest and see what I can see there. I reckon if the switch stalk is goofy it could be the issue.
     
  6. mrlavalamp

    mrlavalamp Full Access Member

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    27
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Location:
    Sin City
    Maybe the leds as a whole are just bad, the drivers aren't always made of to the highest specs so its possible the switching internally there is failing.

    Grab a cheap pair of standard bulbs and try them out (or if you can find a known good working bulb).
     
  7. Billwill

    Billwill Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    144
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Location:
    White River, South Africa
    If you go to page 8W-50-4 in the Wiring Diagram you will see the front beams...measure voltages there.

    They show the front beams using ground G111.
    Normally at the end of the wiring index there is a Ground/Splice locations where they show the locations of the grounds..Ground G111 is not shown!.....lots of errors in the wiring diagrams!o_O

    Is yours a Canadian Model?
    These have an extra large relay fitted for Daytime Running Lights.

    If you have this feature bear it in mind when using the wiring diagrams!
     
    mrlavalamp likes this.
  8. FLCapt

    FLCapt New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019
    I'm going to give your suggestion a try. Not a Canadian model. I haven't been able to even look at the jeep for a couple of weeks - a couple deaths in the family. I'm not the greatest electrical guy, so hopefully I can figure it out.
     
  9. daves06lrenegade

    daves06lrenegade Full Access Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Location:
    Massillon, Ohio
    I added LED Headlight "bulbs to my 2016 200s and they worked fine through the summer months... When it got cold the information display would show "headlight out" and THEN would turn the LED lights off... After the car warmed up under the hood they would stay on...

    I had replaced the fog lights with LEDs and had to add a 6ohm 100w resistor from the power feed to the fog light circuit and then to ground... I mounted the resistors to the lower aluminum crash tubes and used silicon grease between the two parts as they got quite hot...

    The TIPM is programmed to monitor the amount of current the bulbs consume...
    The standard halogen lamp consumes 5 amps of current @14.4 volts (72w)
    The LED consumed 1.2 amps @14.4 volts (17.3w)

    I needed to satisfy the TIPMs current draw to fool it into thinking the standard halogen lamp was there and was drawing enough current and therefor keep the LED lamps on...

    Come fall and winter the LED headlights would come and go because I hadn't added the resistors yet... I tried 12, 18, and 24 ohm resistors as i really didn't want all that heat and wasted current... None of them would satisfy the TIPM... I ended up using the 6 ohm 100 watt resistors on the headlights and mounted them on the radiator support (frame)... No more headlight and fog light problems...

    Such a waste of power (current and heat) just to satisfy the TIPM... Too bad FCM doesn't allow you to reprogram the TIPM to ignore these lights and allow you to not do a band-aid fix (resistors)...

    I also changed the dome and map lights to LED and again the TIPM would not turn them totally off...I can live with the low level "mood lights" though...

    This was written for anyone that wants to use LED headlight fog lights...

    YES they can be used on the 2015~2017 200s unlike comments in this thread...

    If you are using them in the headlight circuits use 4 sided COB lights for even and higher light output... The two sided lamps work poorly...My LEDs are as bright as halogen even with the focused lenses...

    Dave
     
  10. FLCapt

    FLCapt New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019
    Tried exactly what you suggested, got a cheap set of standard bulbs - only high beams work - same as the LED's
     
  11. FLCapt

    FLCapt New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019
    Update, I pulled the steering column covers off in an attempt to check the multifunction switch. In the end, I guess I just wasn't smart enough to figure out the wiring diagram. I did however, determine that both the high and low beam relays are clicking when I use the multifunction switch to turn them on. Lights still only work on high beam. I hate electrical issues!
     
  12. Billwill

    Billwill Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    144
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Location:
    White River, South Africa
    If the high and low relays are energizing then you need to trace why in this case the Low Beams are not receiving +12 volts when the relay is active.

    You need to energize the Low Beam Relay and by following the Wiring Diagrams put one lead of your voltmeter on first one side of Fuse# 4 10 A on the internal Fuse Panel (Junction Block). Use page 8W-50-3 as reference.
    The other lead of the meter goes to ground/chassis.

    Turn Ignition ON.

    You should see +12 volts on both side of the fuse if it is not blown.
    If there is no voltage there at all then you will have to remove the JB to get access to the Low Beam Relay that you hear energizing on the rear side of the JB.

    There is a Component Location section in the beginning of the Wiring Diagrams Section 8W...there is a picture there of the layout of the JB so you can see which relay is the Low Beam Relay.

    At this stage you can swap over the Low Beam Relay with one of the many identical ones around it and see if your problem is gone.

    Then measure on the Low Beam Relay pin #30 for +12 volts with respect to ground...should be there if Ignition is ON.

    All of this circuitry is on page 8W-50-3

    Then check if that +12 volts is on pin# 87 when the Low Beam is energized. At this stage you should be able to feel the relay energizing (clicking) as you operate the stalk for low beam.

    Pin #85 should have +12 volts with respect to ground.
    Now with one meter lead on pin #85 or #30....move the other meter lead from ground over to pin #86 which gets switched to ground by the BCM when you activate the Low Beam Switch. You should see +12 volts on the meter which would prove that the Relay is getting activated by Ground on pin #86 coming from the BCM.

    If the above is working then you need to trace the +12 volts out of the JB via Pin #4 on connector C3...on a White/tan wire. This leaves the page at the bottom right to the following page # 8W-50-4.

    You should see this +12 volts going into the Right Headlamp socket so check if it is there. This wire goes through connector C106 pin #10 so if this +12 volts has gone missing at the headlamp while it was present at Pin #4 on connector C3 at the JB then the voltage is not going through connector C106 pin #10 ie. the connector C106 may have dirty pins.

    You can find the physical position of C106 at the rear of the Component Location section at the beginning of section 8W.

    The Left Headlamp socket gets the same treatment via fuse # 5 so the fact that neither left or right low beam is working would point to the Low Beam Relay being faulty or not getting +12 volts on pin#85 or Ground on pin # 86.

    If you do not get ground on pin #86 with respect to +12 volts when the relay is energized..you need to follow the wiring to the BCM on page 8W-45-3.

    See how far you get with the above and then we can go into the BCM if needed.

    Have fun.;)
     
    FLCapt and mrlavalamp like this.
  13. mrlavalamp

    mrlavalamp Full Access Member

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    27
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Location:
    Sin City
    next time I need help with my KJs electrical, I know who I am asking.

    Awesome write-up Bill!