Newbie questions...

[DAGtunes]

Hello all,

Signed up here about a year or so ago when I had couple questions about my 2005 Jeep Liberty Renegade. Thanks for the answers back then. Since then, I've occasionally lurked but have not posted for a while. The time has come, as I have some more questions, and hopefully you good folks can give me some guidance/insight.

I recently needed 4 new tires, so I looked around on this forum to see what the biggest size was that I could get that wouldn't rub. 245/75/16's seemed to be the general concensus, and the Firestone Destination A/T seemed to be the favorite for similar drivers to myself. (primarily on pavement, with occasional off-pavement adventures...)

The Firestone Destination A/T's I got look great - though tight fit - and they do seem like a good tire. However, they do rub for me. Drivers side, and when driving forward, and turning the wheel full, like in a U-turn.

I got the biggest tires I could fit because I was also thinking of lifting it. I bottom out way too often when off-roading. This is my first 4WD vehicle, and I know next to nothing about modifying vehicles. My Liberty is stock.

After looking around in the lift section of this board, I kept seeing mention of people replacing thier lift kit every 30K miles or so, and other parts wearing out prematurely?

If you lift the vehicle, does this create a condition where the vehicle will require more mechanical attention than if you just leave it stock?

If so, what parts are the likely suspects to wear out, and what is the average cost of keeping the lift maintained?

How many miles should one expect a lift to last on average?

Any insight you could provide would be appreciated!

 

[J-Thompson]

wow lots of questions
first the "lift" we have on our KJ has close to 40K and was installed when the KJ
had just over 30K due to the OE suspension being shot
I see no signs of it needing to be replaced
The amount of work you have to do after a lift will depend on the quality of the lift you install
in your case the lift we have would be great for what you do
Old Man Emu springs ,Med duty, with Rancho struts and OME shocks
this set up will require NOTHING more to clear those 245/75's and will be trouble free

 

[ekj]

I just hit 40K last night. How does one tell if the springs need replacing?

 

[Powerslave]

Lifting pulls CAMBER in, for outside tire wear, the lower "A" arms are adjustable. The front suspension is the only major concern with a lift.

Lifting can cause premature wear in CV-Joints more than anything else. With the front drive-line, you have the two in the front shaft, and the two for the independent front suspension. We have 8" of total travel with the front stock suspension, I was told and read.

Ball joints only have so much movement, so lifting will reposition the ball-joints more towards their position limits; but if there is no more actual downward movement allowed (meaning, you did not replace the struts or shocks to ones that allow more downward throw), they should be ok. The outer tie-rod end ball-joint would be fine, the inner tie-rod moves downward with the lift, keeps the tie-rod end at the same angle.

If you put shocks and struts on that change the suspension travel to allow more downward travel over OEMl, the CV and ball joints may experience stress, they are "pulled" on (reach their max movement) when the max downward movement over OEM is exceeded. You would need a radical lift to cause abnormal damage to the OEM parts. If you left everything alone, but lifted maybe 2", then the limits of the current suspension travel will be fine, you only need to have your front alignment done for the Camber and Toe change.

With the stock shocks and struts, they will hit their internal downward stops before the joints experience stress or pull. Not sure it is explained properly, but like when you place your vehicle on a LIFT? The struts and shocks are what stops the suspension from going FARTHER downward.

Springs, I am at 68K with the original springs, they are fine.

People will have many more opinions, but with a 2" lift, with stock parts, should be fine. You would have to upgrade parts for radical lifts, like for rock climbing...

 

[ThunderbirdJunkie]

Just an FYI...running stock wheels you should not need to touch the pinchweld with 245/75-16s. If you decide to run spacers or aftermarket wheels, though, then it should be done.

 

[ridenby]

I just hit 40K last night. How does one tell if the springs need replacing?

Had a couple more miles than you when I replaced mine thought Jeep rode well,handled good,lifted it,OMG,should have done it day I got Libby,amazing difference for the better,lift J.T.advises is low cost,and very effective,IMO.

 

[Boiler]

I thought 245/70 R16 was the largest people put in with stock suspension usually. 245/75-R16 is usually considered a safe size for lifts without having to do much trimming.

Maybe you can get by with a clevis lift and a top plate shim in the front, and a couple additional upper isolators in the back, trim your front air dam and maybe pound a pinch and not have to add a lift yet. Basically the upper isolators and shims would run you about $100 and you'd gain an inch in the rear and up to an inch and a half in the front depending how many conduit nuts you added to your clevis lift.

Might be the most economical way to start and all of the costs incurred could be reused when you did a real suspension lift in the future.

 

[DAGtunes]

Thanks, all!

Wow. Lots of replies here, and quick!

My Libby has 83K miles on her, and I've been towing a Pop-Up tent trailer around with her for the last few years, so the suspension has taken a beating. I'm sure some components need to be replaced, at the very least. I figured, "if you're gonna replace parts, you might as well lift it, too!" But I don't want to create a whole new set of problems by taking the vehicle out of "spec."

My last set of tires was the Bridgestone Dueller A/T Revos in 235/75/16, which were badly worn on the insides of the front tires due to bad alignment. All four tires were into the tread bars, so it was getting to be time to replace them anyway.

I've been thinking of lifting my Libby for a while now, and was all fired up to do it, until I started reading more about it, and quickly realized I may be getting in over my head. It's been a long time since I've worked on a vehicle myself, and even back then I just knew the basics. (Oil change, etc.) I've NEVER messed with the suspension...though I had friends who did, and I used to hang out and "assist." (Mainly hand beer and tools to them.)

I will have the lift installed by professionals, if I do it. But I just want to avoid any "surprises" down the road.

 

[DAGtunes]

I think you misread that 30K thing. Most STOCK coils are worn down at 30K...

Tommudd has (iirc) 70k+ miles on his OME springs and no problems

You pounded the pinchwelds already?

Very possible I misread that...and the 70K+ is encouraging.

As for the pinchwelds - No. I saw in one of the stickies the procedure, but was hoping a lift might solve that? It really only rubs when making a U-turn. (As far as I can tell...)

 

[DAGtunes]

Just an FYI...running stock wheels you should not need to touch the pinchweld with 245/75-16s. If you decide to run spacers or aftermarket wheels, though, then it should be done.

That's what I thought I read in those stickies in the other sections here...but perhaps I misread the charts. Either way, I have minimal rubbing as is...just when doing a U-turn. None when backing up with wheels fully turned though? (As far as I can tell.)

 

[DAGtunes]

I thought 245/70 R16 was the largest people put in with stock suspension usually. 245/75-R16 is usually considered a safe size for lifts without having to do much trimming.

Maybe you can get by with a clevis lift and a top plate shim in the front, and a couple additional upper isolators in the back, trim your front air dam and maybe pound a pinch and not have to add a lift yet. Basically the upper isolators and shims would run you about $100 and you'd gain an inch in the rear and up to an inch and a half in the front depending how many conduit nuts you added to your clevis lift.

Might be the most economical way to start and all of the costs incurred could be reused when you did a real suspension lift in the future.

I thought the clevis lift could only be done when one has installed aftermarket suspension components? (Not stock) Did I misunderstand that?

 

[Warren.fischbeck]

I thought the clevis lift could only be done when one has installed aftermarket suspension components? (Not stock) Did I misunderstand that?

You can do the clevis at any time you want, you don't need to have any aftermarket parts. Here's the link if you want to check it out... http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34855

 

[ThunderbirdJunkie]

If you do ANY clevis lift or any OTT spacers it's pretty much required to run extended bumpstops since you are really mucking with the stock geometry.

 

[J-Thompson]

My Libby has 83K miles on her

you need at a minimum new shocks and struts and 95% chance you need new springs as well
not maybe
you need them even if you dont think you do
I never keep OE shocks and such past 35-40K ,most are junk