Loud noise from front bottom of engine

[kjackson]

I have an '06 Liberty with the 3.7 in it. I have had the worst luck with this vehicle. Bough it used from dealer in October '16 and the original engine died in December. It had overheated from the water pump dying in the middle of DC traffic. *****.

Dealer took pity on me, replaced it with a junk yard engine, while eating 2/3 of the cost. In March that engine died. It had a tap, like a cylinder misfire, dealer said it needed a new engine, so second junk yard swap out. Keep count, that is 3 engines in this Jeep within 3 months (original, swapped, and swapped again).

Here we are in July, and engine problems again. I though my exhaust had backed off the manifold, no luck. Have a loud metal knocking sound at idle coming from the front of the engine, so I am assuming that it's timing chain/guides/tensioners.

Rather than go back to dealer and have them tell me to swap the engine again I figured I'd try to fix this one myself. I'm pretty handy and from what I've read/watched on youtube it seems like this is the job:

1. Pull valve covers
2. Align crankshaft to TDC
3. Remove belt
4. Remove crankshaft pulley
5. Remove timing cover
6. Remove chains and old guides/tensioners
7. Replace guides/tensioners
8. Replace chains
9. Bolt cover back on with RTP grey
10. Put Pulley, then belt, back on
11. Put valve covers back on
12. Problem solved

So my question: Do I have the steps right? Assuming I know how to turn a wrench, is this a 1 day job? Is there anything I should look for? Advice?

 

[Conundrum2006]

This really a timing chain sound?

I hadn't not done a timing chain job on this motor, I have disassembled the motor.
There's a I wanna say 5mm hex head bolt (might be using the wrong term) that holds part of plastic guide, those were a bit of a pain to remove. I had buy that size socket extension (looks kind of like a Allen wrench on a ratchet socket)

The other thing I remember is there is a special tool for the timing chains. There are three chains in the engine and this tool was supposed to help align them as they were installed .
The harmonic balancer puller needs to be a little longer than standard size.

Another way to work on these kind of timing chains is to use a wedge shape tool to keep the tension in the chain while removing things like cam sprockets, I dunno if this trick would work on these engines to remove and replace tensioners.

The timing cover has a gasket that is easier to replace than RTV it. Same for the valve cover gaskets.

I'm sure somebody who has done this job has some better tips.

You shouldn't have gone through so many of these motors, and IMO the salvage yard still should warranty them. Still doesn't make sense why everyone would be a lemon unless they tried to fix one of the failed motors.

I'm concerned the sound you hear is a rod knocking in which case all your work will not fix it.


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[kjackson]

Rod bearings?

OK. Noise at idle, goes away when moving. I do have some tapping, that's separate and I expect that to be lifter. From what I read/viewed that would be timing, but I am open to other solutions.

What would I expect for rod knock? Is there anyway I can test for rod vs timing?

 

[Conundrum2006]

I may be completely wrong. I was just looking at some videos about timing noise and maybe that's it, my experience is some chain rattle and a few other noises that go away or only appear at start up


I have had bearing noses only at low pressure or high revs, so that's why I was thinking rod noise.



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[Logan Savage]

OK. Noise at idle, goes away when moving. I do have some tapping, that's separate and I expect that to be lifter. From what I read/viewed that would be timing, but I am open to other solutions.

What would I expect for rod knock? Is there anyway I can test for rod vs timing?

When the engine is idling & knocking unplug the coil wires one at a time & see if your knock gets a lot quieter or goes away with one of the coils unplugged .

 

[Conundrum2006]

When the engine is idling & knocking unplug the coil wires one at a time & see if your knock gets a lot quieter or goes away with one of the coils unplugged .

Great suggestion !


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[tjkj2002]

I have an '06 Liberty with the 3.7 in it. I have had the worst luck with this vehicle. Bough it used from dealer in October '16 and the original engine died in December. It had overheated from the water pump dying in the middle of DC traffic. *****.

Dealer took pity on me, replaced it with a junk yard engine, while eating 2/3 of the cost. In March that engine died. It had a tap, like a cylinder misfire, dealer said it needed a new engine, so second junk yard swap out. Keep count, that is 3 engines in this Jeep within 3 months (original, swapped, and swapped again).

Here we are in July, and engine problems again. I though my exhaust had backed off the manifold, no luck. Have a loud metal knocking sound at idle coming from the front of the engine, so I am assuming that it's timing chain/guides/tensioners.

Rather than go back to dealer and have them tell me to swap the engine again I figured I'd try to fix this one myself. I'm pretty handy and from what I've read/watched on youtube it seems like this is the job:

1. Pull valve covers
2. Align crankshaft to TDC
3. Remove belt
4. Remove crankshaft pulley
5. Remove timing cover
6. Remove chains and old guides/tensioners
7. Replace guides/tensioners
8. Replace chains
9. Bolt cover back on with RTP grey
10. Put Pulley, then belt, back on
11. Put valve covers back on
12. Problem solved

So my question: Do I have the steps right? Assuming I know how to turn a wrench, is this a 1 day job? Is there anything I should look for? Advice?

It's like a 8 hour book time job to replace the timing chains on a 3.7,if you've never done this job before expect to double or triple that time to complete.That considering you have all the correct tools in a shop type environment,doing it all by hand tools adds alot of extra time and very sore wrists.

Pulling the timing cover takes 30mins,everything else is very time consuming.Those valve covers look easy till you actually start trying to remove them,the passenger side is a royal pain because of the firewall,anyone that has pulled them knows.

Don't forget you will need to do a oil change and be super careful that no trash get's into the oil pan as a big hole will be exposed allowing trash to get into the oil pan when you remove the timing cover.Pulling the oil pan to clean it is not a easy job on a KJ and much more time consuming then doing timing chains,by the book the engine should be removed.

 

[O5berylgrnrenegade]

X2 on the passenger side valve cover its a royal pain in the a** had to pull mine to fix a fallen rocker arm not a good experience once so ever

 

[mrlavalamp]

Don't forget you will need to do a oil change and be super careful that no trash get's into the oil pan as a big hole will be exposed allowing trash to get into the oil pan when you remove the timing cover.Pulling the oil pan to clean it is not a easy job on a KJ and much more time consuming then doing timing chains,by the book the engine should be removed.

I have always stuffed big rags or towels in the hole. Just make sure whatever you use is big enough that it wont end up in the pan itself.

 

[kjackson]

When the engine is idling & knocking unplug the coil wires one at a time & see if your knock gets a lot quieter or goes away with one of the coils unplugged .

Assuming that I find one what does that indicate?

 

[mrlavalamp]

Assuming that I find one what does that indicate?

Rod Knock, possibly spun bearing.

I had a car that was normal at idle and coasting, but under load (going uphill,
acceleration at a stoplight) it would knock in time with RPM. Started out barely noticable, but within a week it was loud even at idle.

Used this trick to narrow down what the noise could be, but pulling the oil pan was how I confirmed (and the only way I can think of to fully diagnose a spun rod bearing). That oil pan was easy to get to though, ours are not.

 

[kjackson]

Well this became a moot point

Driving home from work yesterday the noise; however you want to describe it changed, almost sounded like a piece of heat shield falling off, then what I can only describe as a weird rubbing sound and the Jeep stopped moving. No forward, no reverse, didn't try 4 wheel. Engine just kept plugging along, so whatever broke it wasn't what I thought it was. I'm going to assume it's the transmission. It's at the shop now.

 

[wheeee32]

Post up findings when you learn what the issue is.

 

[Conundrum2006]

Sorry to hear that. I'm Sorry you've had so much trouble with this jeep, they can be very good runners.
Please let us know what failed.

Some noises from the transmission can sound like they are from the engine, on the old Cherokee the bolts that secure the torque converter to the flexplate can back out causing a engine knock sound, broken flexplate often sounds the same.
Plenty of other noises transmit differently through the body so it's hard to be precise where it's coming from.



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[kjackson]

Sadly there will be no update. The dealer I purchased it from was unwilling to work with me any more. I am certain they know there were issues from the start since they had to swap two engines and now this.

I love monkeying around but I have to commute 50+ miles a day and can't be without a car. So I traded it for a VW diesel Jetta.

 

[tjkj2002]

Sadly there will be no update. The dealer I purchased it from was unwilling to work with me any more. I am certain they know there were issues from the start since they had to swap two engines and now this.

I love monkeying around but I have to commute 50+ miles a day and can't be without a car. So I traded it for a VW diesel Jetta.

Think you had issues just wait.

 

[JasonJ]

Think you had issues just wait.

HAHA! No kidding... They're great when it's all fine.. but when it hits the fan on those, regardless of year made, IT HITS THE FAN BIG TIME.

Injection pumps... injectors... turbos ... not to mention things like dead radios that cost hundreds to replace (if not using aftermarket), $180 keys, $300 door latches that fail like clockwork, window regulator problems, water leaks, $600-$1000 DSG transmission services, $90 oil changes ...

I worked the service dept of a VW dealer... can you tell? lol.

I hope yours is one of the more reliable ones. When they're reliable and do what they're supposed to, they're fantastic commuter cars, really are. It's just getting one that stays that way.