Lift Kit Options... Upper Control Arms Necessary?

[GTF]

My stock suspension on my 2002 is shot... no surprise there. I want to replace everything, but don't want to break the bank and a lift kit seems like it would be a better option than replacing the stock parts.

The BDS kit which I've seen for around $450 comes with new springs and rear shocks, and parts to allow the use of stock front shocks. These coils look to be a little tougher than stock which is good since I don't want them to sag as soon as I put them on. So, I've been considering doing that and replacing the front shocks at the same time.

My other thought was the Rusty's kit, but I've heard others on here say it's springs are no good and will sag, so I don't think I'll be doing that.

The BDS seems like the most cost effective option for me, and since I don't really take it off road very often, I just want something that will last through the COLD Minnesota winters and give me a little more clearance in the snow.

When are the upper control arms required? I've searched on all this and did a lot of reading, but I can't seem to figure out if I'll need to do something with the control arms with this modest lift. If I do, I may lean toward the stock setup but try to find some tougher springs.

I don't really want to spend quite the amount of money required for the OME or other options listed, so the BDS seemed like a descent option. I would be open to other suggestions and your opinions though. Thanks.

 

[tommudd]

BDS is no more cost effective than the Ironman or OME for that matter
WHY would you want to reuse worn out front shocks?
You need to upgrade/replace everything for a way better ride. Not replacing the front shocks would wear out the front springs faster due to over working them.
Personally, you can have the BDS, OME and Ironman are both much better

BDS + new front shocks (at say 250) = 700 bucks , now how is that cheaper than OME or Ironman in the long run ??

Now on to the UCAs ( JBAs not RRO ) , are they needed , no. Are they a great upgrade since the ball joints are replaceable, can be greased, last longer, make it easier to align then the answer is yes

 

[TheBlueKJ]

BDS + new front shocks (at say 250) = 700 bucks , now how is that cheaper than OME or Ironman in the long run ??

Ironman is 680 if you use Ironman shocks all around so by Tom's calculations the Ironman is cheaper. The rear shocks are too short but they are coming out with longer ones in the (hopefully) near future. Me personally I am going to use Bilstien shocks all around and still debating on which spring to use, Ironman or OME since both are excellent products.

 

[tommudd]

rear shocks would be OK if nothing else was added to the lift, i.e. no extra rear isolators

 

[GTF]

I said I liked the idea of using stock shocks, not reusing the old ones. I want to replace everything, but I don't want to spend a fortune doing it.

The Ironman setup which I'm assuming is from jeepinbyals looks like it amounts to just over $700 plus shipping which I'm guessing would be like another $40.

The BDS kit is $450 with free shipping and I can get KYB or Rancho front shocks for $186/pr off ebay, or I could do Monroe for $158, or OEM type for about $90 (all with free shipping).

So, this would be about $100 or $200 cheaper than the Ironman setup. What exactly makes the Ironman setup better to warrant me spending the extra dough? The $550 to $650 is already a stretch on the budget, but if there's some reason this isn't at least a descent option, I'm all ears. It's got to at least last longer than the stock springs and be better than a spacer lift right???

I really doubt that any brand of shocks are going to hold up very well in the -25F temps we see in the winter here combined with the rough roads from all the piled up snow and ice. This way I could at least replace the front ones down the road and NOT have to again spend the $250.

I'm NOT going to be taking this thing on trails, I just want it to ride better and handle better than the dump-truck ride that it has now. I think that setup would do the trick and be an improvement over stock components.

Back to the upper control arms... I've heard some people say that the spring can hit the control arm I think it was? Do I need to replace this with any of the lifts we've been talking about or can I leave them? The brake lines only need to be moved on the 07' and newer, is that right?

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

None of those other shocks you listed will improve the ride of your Jeep. With different spring rates on Ironman springs - which are a great choice, by the way - you want shocks that can properly dampen the suspension giving you a safer, smoother, more controlled ride than any stock, Monroe or KYB shock can give you. Bilstein, OME or Ironman shocks are all designed to control the jouncing MUCH better than the others.

Even if not going off road you want shocks that will smooth out the roads you travel on. Poor shocks will wear out the springs that much faster - you want a total system that keeps you out of the ditches.

From a budget standpoint look at ShockWarehouse.com - they have free shipping on all orders. Purchase shocks and springs in chunks rather than all at once - front shocks this month, rear shocks next month, front springs then rear springs, etc. That's what I did and even though I didn't get the springs & shocks installed as soon as I wanted eventually I got a suspension upgrade that gives me a GREAT ride on the highway and excellent control (and lift) for off road trips.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Most of us can't afford to go cheap - if we go cheap we end up buying the products more than once costing us more in the long run than if we'd bought the proper parts at the beginning.

Spread out the $700 budget over a couple or three months and get a great riding Liberty that will shock you with the improvement over what you're driving now.

Bob

 

[TheBlueKJ]

As for the UCA's and brake line's. The brake line extensions are for 05-07 KJ's and you won't really have a problem with the control arm hitting the spring unless your at or over 3 inches of lift (if I remember correctly). Other than that it really all depends on if you want to replace just the ball joint (Al's arms) or the whole arm (stock UCA) when the ball joint fails.

 

[GTF]

I appreciate all the good advice, but now I have even more questions.

So, if I decide to still go the BDS option, I could put some Bilsteins up front and still be at about $630. I've read on here that the BDS springs are actually descent, and better than stock. I'm not sure about their rear shocks, look like they're probably not as good as the Bilsteins though. From the part numbers, they appear to be rebranded Ranchos.

If I decide to do the Ironman or OME springs, then I would have to make sure to get front and rear shocks that were good for lift right, NOT the stock length. Is there anything else I would need besides the springs and shocks to go this route and piece it together over time?

 

[Luke]

Just for accuracy ... only some 05's need the relocation bracket. Mine did not.

"Check the Driverside Rear Brakeline - if it goes from the caliper across the axle, your 2005 will not need the bracket. But, if your driverside rear brakeline goes from the caliper up into the wheel well, then your 2005 KJ WILL need this bracket." AllJ's

 

[TheBlueKJ]

You have to get stock front shocks as there are no extended length ones. As for the rear use stock 2000 durango or dakota rear shocks since they are the correct length when you get lifted.

 

[flintchesthair]

I have the bds lift on my 2007 and its been great. I decided to go with it because the shops around my area carry it and there are quite a few trucks (although I think I'm the only kj) that use them and swear by them. They have a good warranty although I haven't had to use it. No one around me carries any OME, And the only person I know who used their springs used it on his FJ Cruiser, and his has sagged more than an inch in less than a year. I know it's a completely different truck, and I know they are held in very high regard on KJ forums, but I don't know anyone who has had any BDS spring even remotely sag. And if they do, BDS will replace them FOR LIFE!

With piece of mine like that, paying 700 for a kit kind of makes sense.

 

[tommudd]

I appreciate all the good advice, but now I have even more questions.

So, if I decide to still go the BDS option, I could put some Bilsteins up front and still be at about $630. I've read on here that the BDS springs are actually descent, and better than stock. I'm not sure about their rear shocks, look like they're probably not as good as the Bilsteins though. From the part numbers, they appear to be rebranded Ranchos.

If I decide to do the Ironman or OME springs, then I would have to make sure to get front and rear shocks that were good for lift right, NOT the stock length. Is there anything else I would need besides the springs and shocks to go this route and piece it together over time?

BDS are better than stock, but then thats not saying much since the stockers are junk basically after 40,000 miles.
BDS rear shocks are cheaper ones yes , I advise everyone to buy better shocks if they think they want BDS springs .
Front shocks are all the same they are all same as stock length, rear are 99-04 to be exact Dakota 4WD or OME 132Ls
And like mentioned your springs and shocks get a work out almost as much as four wheeling everyday just driving down most roads. Braking will be better since it does away with the nose diving, it will ride and handle better all around .

 

[GTF]

Alright, I've been reading on here until my eyeballs hurt and I've still got questions.

SO, the BDS lift comes with some brackets to use stock struts. However from what I've seen on here, the way to go is the OME or Ironman springs, and Bilstein shocks as mentioned earlier. If the front shocks are the stock length, don't I need some kind of bracket like in the BDS kit to install them?

Also, there seems to be conflicting info about bumpstops, would you say get the Teraflex for the front and use two pucks on each side in the rear?

So if I use new Ironmans springs front and back, and get the stock size Bilsteins in front, and some Dakota shocks for the back, I still need bumpstops and something for the top plate for the front? Just trying to wrap my head around all this. There must be something extra besides just the springs and shocks or they wouldn't have the special brackets in the BDS kit right?

 

[tommudd]

Alright, I've been reading on here until my eyeballs hurt and I've still got questions.

SO, the BDS lift comes with some brackets to use stock struts. However from what I've seen on here, the way to go is the OME or Ironman springs, and Bilstein shocks as mentioned earlier. If the front shocks are the stock length, don't I need some kind of bracket like in the BDS kit to install them?

Also, there seems to be conflicting info about bumpstops, would you say get the Teraflex for the front and use two pucks on each side in the rear?

So if I use new Ironmans springs front and back, and get the stock size Bilsteins in front, and some Dakota shocks for the back, I still need bumpstops and something for the top plate for the front? Just trying to wrap my head around all this. There must be something extra besides just the springs and shocks or they wouldn't have the special brackets in the BDS kit right?

No special brackets needed at all for the front
trust us theres been enough lifted to know what works and what doesn't .
Conflicting info on bumpstops???? mmmm Teraflex for the front, 2 hockey pucks or whatever to get two inches of bumpstops per side in the rear.
Its a very simple lift really, try not to make it too hard

 

[GTF]

No special brackets needed at all for the front
trust us theres been enough lifted to know what works and what doesn't .
Conflicting info on bumpstops???? mmmm Teraflex for the front, 2 hockey pucks or whatever to get two inches of bumpstops per side in the rear.
Its a very simple lift really, try not to make it too hard

Thanks for the info. I just like to do my research and try to make sure I have everything figured out before I tear into something. What I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around is how you can use the stock shocks with a lift spring without any kind of other modifications.

I don't doubt it works, I'm only asking questions because I don't want to have my suspension completely torn apart to find out that there's some other part that I need. It's my DD.

 

[tommudd]

Most everyones out here are their DDs
When they come here to my place they drive in knowing in 3 hours or so they'll be back on the road to the alignment shop and then back home. Some from 3-4 hours away.
As far as the front shock goes , its all in the geometry of the front suspension. There is just so much up and down travel to be had without going into a very modified IFS. We're working within those parameters, and stock length work great

 

[GTF]

Most everyones out here are their DDs
When they come here to my place they drive in knowing in 3 hours or so they'll be back on the road to the alignment shop and then back home. Some from 3-4 hours away.
As far as the front shock goes , its all in the geometry of the front suspension. There is just so much up and down travel to be had without going into a very modified IFS. We're working within those parameters, and stock length work great

Alright tommudd, I think you and the others have changed my mind about the BDS, thanks for all the info.

To clarify the bumpstop issue, the conflicting info was to weather or not they are needed, but seems like the answer would be yes, so I'm going to get them.

So I guess I'll get started gathering up the front and back ironman springs, bilstein shocks for the kj in front and for the dakota in back, and the teraflex bumps along with some hockey pucks.

Thanks for helping me do this right the first time.

 

[TheBlueKJ]

Make sure their for a 4wd dakota! And he's been helping countless people do their lifts right the first time, even me when I was deciding on what parts to make my lift out of.

 

[cplchris]

i have the bds kit on my jeep, however i also have bilstein shocks front and rear, (i kept the standard rear bds shocks for spares), i got the basic bds kit and the hd bilsteins from jba (ship from shockwarehouse IIRC), teraflex front bumpstops (you need them for any kit unless you go ome shocks up front i believe they have shaft mounted bumpstops), hockeypucks for the rear, 3/8" clevis lift and a 1/4" top plate, 2 extra rear upper isos per side, and i also got the jba upper control arms. dont sit around and try to save pennies the ome, ironman and bds kits are all in the same general price range, and my reccomendation depending on the quality of the springs and shocks would probably be the tommudd budget kit on jeepinbyals website, i got the bds before the ironman came out and my 3 reasons for choosing bds over ome were:
1-the front shock relocation bracket
2-higher spring rate than ome
3-made in the usa (i try to buy as much american made products as i can, this is in no way a dig at the aussie companies)

shorthand: get either the tommudd kit from jba or piece together a comparable kit with bds/bilstein etc...no mateer what you do youre going to spend some money....but do it right do it once.

btw congrats on having a kit named after you tommudd