Is my alignment ok?

[rockymountain]

Ok got my alignment after adding the 2nd extra iso and about 1/2" clevis in front. Now sitting at 22.25 in front and 22.75 in the rear. These numbers seem to me not good enough. The ride is ok but the tires (BFG KMs mind you) are a lot louder now with the alignment. Also, I turned with the wheel all the way to the right in a parking lot today and got a lot of tire scrub. Never really did before. Here's what I got:

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The cross numbers are good, but about none of them are in spec on each side. Is this a case of the guy needing to take a little more time and zeroing out the cam bolts or something. If so how do I explain that to him? Or is this normal and what everyone gets?

 

[streetglideok]

That may be the best he could get, without seeing the position the cam bolts are in. Only thing it looked like was done, was increase camber on the left side a little, and set the toe. Tires may be running a little different then they were before, since its not going pigeon toe'd anymore, hence making noise. Right tire points further to the right then before, so may contact something that it didnt before. Personally I'd like to see less camber then that, and more caster if it could be done. I'd hope the back cams were maxed on both sides.

 

[tjkj2002]

Ok got my alignment after adding the 2nd extra iso and about 1/2" clevis in front. Now sitting at 22.25 in front and 22.75 in the rear. These numbers seem to me not good enough. The ride is ok but the tires (BFG KMs mind you) are a lot louder now with the alignment. Also, I turned with the wheel all the way to the right in a parking lot today and got a lot of tire scrub. Never really did before. Here's what I got:

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The cross numbers are good, but about none of them are in spec on each side. Is this a case of the guy needing to take a little more time and zeroing out the cam bolts or something. If so how do I explain that to him? Or is this normal and what everyone gets?

Ran into a simliar issue with a lifted KJ here and it actually turned out that there was not enough lift for the JBA arms.He was sitting at 22" front and was maxed in camber/caster and could not get either even close.

 

[rockymountain]

Ran into a simliar issue with a lifted KJ here and it actually turned out that there was not enough lift for the JBA arms.He was sitting at 22" front and was maxed in camber/caster and could not get either even close.

so you're saying more lift would help it out more since I have jba a-arms? Seems like the more I lift it, the worse it gets. Seems like I'm chasing my tail here and that I got really nothing more I can do with it.

Thanks for the replies. by tire scrub I mean squealing like a tire is skidding across the asphalt. It isn't hitting anything in the wheel well.

 

[streetglideok]

If in doubt, take a tap measure and compare distance between front tires on the front and back of them. The front should be a little less then the rear. Wonder if the machine or the guy who did it goofed?

 

[rockymountain]

Here's a comparison of back when I first installed the a-arms and now:

first. back when I installed the a-arms:

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second: now after a clevis lift:

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I can't believe a clevis lift would do this. Maybe I should bring this in to him and see what he says.

 

[streetglideok]

I think I would ask them to recheck it. Same shop and same machine? The first one looks great, it really couldnt get any better. Someone correct me, but I dont think the caster measurement would change by adding those spacers, unless you unbolted your lowers, did you? I can see camber and toe possibly, but caster is different and that shouldnt be different by much.

 

[rockymountain]

I think I would ask them to recheck it. Same shop and same machine? The first one looks great, it really couldnt get any better. Someone correct me, but I dont think the caster measurement would change by adding those spacers, unless you unbolted your lowers, did you? I can see camber and toe possibly, but caster is different and that shouldnt be different by much.

Thanks for the reply. I didn't unbolt the lowers of course. Unless they have two machines then yes same machine (same shop). Different guy though. This guy that did it probably remembers when he did it last which was when I first lifted and still had the stock a-arms. I may call and see what they think. I know people there anyway and I've probably had 5 alignments there now just with this KJ. The nice lady at the counter always asks if I was playing again. I'm beginning to think the guy was in crunch mode and was belting out the alignments just to stay ahead. One thing I forgot about was that I drove away and noticed after a bit that the wheel was pointing left while going straight. I let it go for 5 minutes or so to see if was the crest in the road or the wind, but it didn't change no matter if I was going North or South so I did a u-turn and headed back. Told him it was pointing left and he said, that it would only take a minute. A few minutes later he came back and said keys are in it. Then it was right, the wheel points straight while going straight YAY! Never had to return a vehicle before.

 

[rockymountain]

OK, I called the shop and I'm going to have them look at it a little closer. I took some pics of the bolt positions on the lower a-arms. They look really tweaked to me. Would it be right to say the the front bolt on the a-arms seems like it could be moved down which would tilt the wheel forward helping the caster out? Right now when I turn at full lock it feels like the front tires are getting ripped off. Drives ok straight, but just ok.

Here's the front bolt right side:

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here's the rear bolt right side:

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here's the front bolt left side:

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here's the rear bolt left side:

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Looks way out of wack to me. My current alignment shows positive camber, like the al's a-arms are pushing the top out too far. Not good and my tires don't like it one bit either. I'm going to try to tell them to just "reset" or "zero out" the cam bolts and start over. Would they understand what I mean. Looking at the nuts on the bolts they don't even have any marks on them in the mud that's caked on them. They didn't even touch the cam bolts.
I'm afraid if they can't do anything I'm going to have to lower the front back down a little about a half inch. Could be that I need to find a new shop for alignments too I guess.
Any help is greatly appreciated. Right now she doesn't drive right and just gives me a sick feeling as opposed to before when it was warm and fuzzy. :shrug: On top of that the CEL came on for the 'ol gas cap code. This one I'm afraid just doesn't want to be this high for some reason. I'm sitting at 22.25 in the front, doesn't most run this high or higher? :freak3:
Thanks.

 

[tjkj2002]

From the pics it almost looks like you do not have enough lift for the JBA's,you need to go another 1/2" at least but 3/4"-1" will net the best results.Always sacrifice caster for camber also,as long as you got 2-3 degrees of caster and cross caster is within 0.5 degrees your fine as caster will not wear tires.

Oh and general rule with 2 cam bolts on the LCA(or UCA) is the front cam bolt(closest to front of vehicle) generally moves camber while the rear cam bolt generally moves caster.

 

[rockymountain]

ok thanks for the reply. I'm lifted 3.25 inches from stock. That's getting close to what the cvs can take safely. I don't disagree with you however the right side looks like the front cam bolt is all the way IN almost. It looks like they are doing exactly the opposite of your rule of thumb. The rear cam bolt is thrown way out. That may be the problem right there.

Back when I first installed the a-arms it wasn't as high. Right now I have about a half inch of clevis and back when I got the a-arms I had zero clevis lift. All measurements were in spec except for the caster on the left side.

I think I got hosed with this alignment. I find out what they'll do in 50 minutes.

 

[rockymountain]

Just got back and I finally have it right. Check this out!

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TJKJ, Thanks! what you said is the key. Get the toe and camber right at the cost of caster. The difference is night and day. Its quiet now going over bumps, doesn't wander and just plain drives smooth. I had a pos alignment cause the guy just didn't want to work on it. Anyone else with this problem needs to tell the tech to forget about caster and get the toe and camber in spec. As long as the cross caster is good it won't cause drifting or pulling.

Happy once again with a warm and fuzzy feeling going down the road! :smokin:

Thanks again TJKJ!!

 

[Pippobug]

Hi,
just out of curiosity what is your front set up? I am having the same problem, sort of.
I am changing my front LCA bushes as I can open them enough to get the camber correct.
My set up is:
OME 790 coils ( mine is a CRD 2.5)
OME NS131 strut
Boiler 3/8 top plate
Clevis nuts taken off

and still sitting at 22 inc, so about 3.5 inc over stock (assuming stock is 18.5 inc).enough movement to open the LCA to get Camber back into spec.

On Friday I am changing bushes & all so to make sure i get it all correct.
Fil

 

[rockymountain]

Hi,
just out of curiosity what is your front set up? I am having the same problem, sort of.
I am changing my front LCA bushes as I can open them enough to get the camber correct.
My set up is:
OME 790 coils ( mine is a CRD 2.5)
OME NS131 strut
Boiler 3/8 top plate
Clevis nuts taken off

and still sitting at 22 inc, so about 3.5 inc over stock (assuming stock is 18.5 inc).enough movement to open the LCA to get Camber back into spec.

On Friday I am changing bushes & all so to make sure i get it all correct.
Fil

I'm at 22.25 in front. I'm running with boiler's plates and clevis lift. Also have al's a-arms. Everything's in my signature.
...oh and 927 OME

 

[Pippobug]

I'm at 22.25 in front. I'm running with boiler's plates and clevis lift. Also have al's a-arms. Everything's in my signature.

Hi,
sorry forgot I also have JBA 4.5, but your top plates aren't 3/8?
I hope i get the same result after friday.
Tks,
Fil

 

[rockymountain]

Hi,
sorry forgot I also have JBA 4.5, but your top plates aren't 3/8?
I hope i get the same result after friday.
Tks,
Fil

Mine are 3/8" yes. Sorry.

 

[Pippobug]

Mine are 3/8" yes. Sorry.

Hi,
guess what, you look to have the same set up, but as you where given oposit advise to mine, go up lift more, I was told to take off and go lower as I couldn't get Caster open enough. We will see after Friday once all has been done and they can open it more (looks like it's all ceased up, salt rust and time !!)
Fil

 

[rockymountain]

Hi,
guess what, you look to have the same set up, but as you where given oposit advise to mine, go up lift more, I was told to take off and go lower as I couldn't get Caster open enough. We will see after Friday once all has been done and they can open it more (looks like it's all ceased up, salt rust and time !!)
Fil

I was told to go higher but I didn't. I got the alignment right instead. I can't go any higher unless I get franky parts or something. I might just get the 720s. I just checked and the alignment adjustments actually sat it down more. Now I'm just about an 1/8" above 22". Doesn't look too much different overall. The cam bolts were totally repositioned. I'll get some pics for comparison to the ones I've already posted.

 

[tjkj2002]

Yep how the cam bolts are placed will effect overall height for the front.I've been seeing lately that '03+ KJ's have more issues with alignment after lifting and adding JBA's.I know I started out at 19.5" stock on my KJ before lifting(pre-lowered '02) and added the non-soft ride SkyJacker lift that lifting me 3.75" and never had a issue setting the alignment even with OEM UCA's though adding the GENII JBA's made it easy to dead center the camber,caster,and toe in the specs.I'm wondering if it's the GEN4.5 arms that are a bit to long or the '03+ KJ's are just that much more different which I can not see.

 

[rockymountain]

I think the lower a arms are what does it. The higher you go the more the a arm pulls the wheel in just like any ifs.

I know what you are saying but the higher I lift the worse it gets. It could just be mine I guess.

Looks like after market lower a arms are in order. The cost of those though would get you going nicely with a solid axle setup maybe. Just thinking out loud there.