Horse_Feathers
New Member
Yes, I am a Newbie. As we used to say, a NFG for those who remember that stuff. I am here really because I just have no where else to vent. It's that simple. Really, it is!
I have worked on a lot of vehicles over the past 50+ years. I've seen some that were pretty poorly engineered and built. However, the 2002 Liberty that I recently bought takes the cake! This thing is the worst POS I have ever owned, bar none, period!
Let me preface this rant with the statement that I would not have bought this trash heap if the magazines had thought to stop kissing ***** and written realistic reviews. One think that American magazines refuse to do is actually provide any honest criticisms about designs and reliability issues from the manufacturers. Oh my! If they say anything negative then the lawyers will swoop in and sue them to death! Pansies! That's for another time, though.
Anyway, I have had to use and drive many Jeeps. Mostly the real ones that a certain "Uncle" that many of us know well. Those had their own idiosyncrasies, but, they served us very well, unlike that junk heap Hummer! Again, another issue for another time. I have also driven a 1997 Wrangler that belonged to a girl that I almost married. I loved that Jeep far more than she, apparently, loved me. (I wonder if she figured that out? Naaaaaaaaaah! She was a tramp and nothing more. LOL)
Of those older "REAL JEEPS" I had a lot of fond memories and respect. That is what clouded my mind when I agreed to buy this "pig in a poke". One of my neighbors was in bad shape and I was looking for a winter vehicle since I had just sold my 1998 Explorer XLT to another lady friend who absolutely fell head over heels in love with it! She was totally enthralled with the changes and improvements to it and wouldn't take no for an answer. So, she took it and went to FLA and I took that money and bought this garbage scow! STUPID ME!!! Anyway, those CJs, Djs, FJs, JJs, or whatever darn letter series they had were actually fun and not too hard to service. They were a special vehicle for special people. It was a selective toy for selective folks and I have never been able to find anyone who could ride in one with the top down and a warm summer day and NOT SMILE from ear to ear! It just is not humanly possible. Of course, they had to go and ruin it.
So, with all of that preamble now out of the way, here is my true rant on this white elephant that now clutters up my driveway.
By now, many of you are aware of the issues with trying to change the starters when they go bad. Having to drop one of the propeller shafts and other stuff, sometimes including the exhaust system, just to change a starter that is no larger than some used on model airplanes is just moronic! If even one of those half witted knuckleheads that designed this thing had even thought about having to service this part they may have considered making it a bit less challenging!
I see two easy ways they could have solved that annoying issue with a minimum of brain power. First, a small notch in the side of the bell housing would allow the starter to slide right out. Alternately, locating the propeller shaft that serves the front transfer case 1/2", (YES! EXACTLY ONE HALF OF AN INCH!) to the left would allow more than enough clearance! HELLOOOOOO!!????????? ANYBODY HOME AT CHRYSLER/JEEP?! Another way would have been to grind away a small part of the starter casting, ohhhh, say maybe 1/4", right by the solenoid boss and it would have dropped right into any mechanic's hands! Or, maybe the could even have made the catalytic converter either slightly smaller in diameter OR moved it further down the damn pipe! Either of those ideas would have made that starter change the simple procedure that they have been in almost any car or truck ever made! DUH????!!!
So, THAT, folks, was my introduction to why I believe these things only had a five year production span. I believe, by the way, that was SIX YEARS longer than it should have been built!
Add to this the rear DRUM BRAKES! Why in the world would they still be using such things, anyway? They have been obsolete since the early 60s. Disc brakes were around even earlier, but, were a bit too expensive for the American market. Too advanced, too. That is a different story, though. Anyway, the drum brakes are the same ones that all of my generation grew up using and replacing. I just am amazed that Jeep would still use them on what was supposed to be a higher end model. (The only thing high were the idio engineers who designed this garbage can!)
Maybe I should mention the ******** excuse for a tail gate, too? Which is it, a hatch or a door? The engineering staff didn't even figure that part out so how are the owners supposed to do so? How many have had those stupid piston sockets break off on the rear window and the needed to replace the entire piece of glass instead of a $1.00 part?! Hmmmmm?!
I expect that the worst issue, though, is the way the rocker panels rust out almost instantly! What kind of cheap Chinese metal were they using and why couldn't anyone even suggest the idea of weep holes to let all of the road crap be flushed out? I've seen plenty of rocker rust over the years, but, not as bad as this. In addition, there are plenty of replacement panels available (or were) which means that they knew there would be a problem and planned ahead for raking in plenty of money with replacements services!
That, ladies and gents, is my take on a product that should never have been released until AFTER some of those dingbat engineers had tried to get one serviced! How many of you have gone to the dealership (STEALERSHIP is a far more accurate term with this vehicle in mind) and been handed a bill that was a major portion of the purchase price of this wreck?! Come on! Anti-up! I've already read a lot of your postings and many of you have been bent over without a reach around!
With just these small (SMALL?) issues noted it is beyond me why some people are convinced that these things are the best product since sliced bread and paper napkins! I really have questions about your intellect, or at least, your sanity. All I can say is that once I fix this scrap heap up it is being put up for sale and I will have a party when it goes down the road and I can no longer see its tail lights! I have another 1998 Explorer almost ready to go and I can assure you that it has everything that the Liberty wishes it could have, like more room, more power, more ground clearance, more options, more after market support, more of everything, plus, and superiority on all counts!!
Thank you for letting me spill my displeasure to all of you. I know that many will have opposite opinions, but, I just had to blow up somewhere! I live in a town of idiots so there is no one around here that would even understand my frustrations.
Done and gone!
I have worked on a lot of vehicles over the past 50+ years. I've seen some that were pretty poorly engineered and built. However, the 2002 Liberty that I recently bought takes the cake! This thing is the worst POS I have ever owned, bar none, period!
Let me preface this rant with the statement that I would not have bought this trash heap if the magazines had thought to stop kissing ***** and written realistic reviews. One think that American magazines refuse to do is actually provide any honest criticisms about designs and reliability issues from the manufacturers. Oh my! If they say anything negative then the lawyers will swoop in and sue them to death! Pansies! That's for another time, though.
Anyway, I have had to use and drive many Jeeps. Mostly the real ones that a certain "Uncle" that many of us know well. Those had their own idiosyncrasies, but, they served us very well, unlike that junk heap Hummer! Again, another issue for another time. I have also driven a 1997 Wrangler that belonged to a girl that I almost married. I loved that Jeep far more than she, apparently, loved me. (I wonder if she figured that out? Naaaaaaaaaah! She was a tramp and nothing more. LOL)
Of those older "REAL JEEPS" I had a lot of fond memories and respect. That is what clouded my mind when I agreed to buy this "pig in a poke". One of my neighbors was in bad shape and I was looking for a winter vehicle since I had just sold my 1998 Explorer XLT to another lady friend who absolutely fell head over heels in love with it! She was totally enthralled with the changes and improvements to it and wouldn't take no for an answer. So, she took it and went to FLA and I took that money and bought this garbage scow! STUPID ME!!! Anyway, those CJs, Djs, FJs, JJs, or whatever darn letter series they had were actually fun and not too hard to service. They were a special vehicle for special people. It was a selective toy for selective folks and I have never been able to find anyone who could ride in one with the top down and a warm summer day and NOT SMILE from ear to ear! It just is not humanly possible. Of course, they had to go and ruin it.
So, with all of that preamble now out of the way, here is my true rant on this white elephant that now clutters up my driveway.
By now, many of you are aware of the issues with trying to change the starters when they go bad. Having to drop one of the propeller shafts and other stuff, sometimes including the exhaust system, just to change a starter that is no larger than some used on model airplanes is just moronic! If even one of those half witted knuckleheads that designed this thing had even thought about having to service this part they may have considered making it a bit less challenging!
I see two easy ways they could have solved that annoying issue with a minimum of brain power. First, a small notch in the side of the bell housing would allow the starter to slide right out. Alternately, locating the propeller shaft that serves the front transfer case 1/2", (YES! EXACTLY ONE HALF OF AN INCH!) to the left would allow more than enough clearance! HELLOOOOOO!!????????? ANYBODY HOME AT CHRYSLER/JEEP?! Another way would have been to grind away a small part of the starter casting, ohhhh, say maybe 1/4", right by the solenoid boss and it would have dropped right into any mechanic's hands! Or, maybe the could even have made the catalytic converter either slightly smaller in diameter OR moved it further down the damn pipe! Either of those ideas would have made that starter change the simple procedure that they have been in almost any car or truck ever made! DUH????!!!
So, THAT, folks, was my introduction to why I believe these things only had a five year production span. I believe, by the way, that was SIX YEARS longer than it should have been built!
Add to this the rear DRUM BRAKES! Why in the world would they still be using such things, anyway? They have been obsolete since the early 60s. Disc brakes were around even earlier, but, were a bit too expensive for the American market. Too advanced, too. That is a different story, though. Anyway, the drum brakes are the same ones that all of my generation grew up using and replacing. I just am amazed that Jeep would still use them on what was supposed to be a higher end model. (The only thing high were the idio engineers who designed this garbage can!)
Maybe I should mention the ******** excuse for a tail gate, too? Which is it, a hatch or a door? The engineering staff didn't even figure that part out so how are the owners supposed to do so? How many have had those stupid piston sockets break off on the rear window and the needed to replace the entire piece of glass instead of a $1.00 part?! Hmmmmm?!
I expect that the worst issue, though, is the way the rocker panels rust out almost instantly! What kind of cheap Chinese metal were they using and why couldn't anyone even suggest the idea of weep holes to let all of the road crap be flushed out? I've seen plenty of rocker rust over the years, but, not as bad as this. In addition, there are plenty of replacement panels available (or were) which means that they knew there would be a problem and planned ahead for raking in plenty of money with replacements services!
That, ladies and gents, is my take on a product that should never have been released until AFTER some of those dingbat engineers had tried to get one serviced! How many of you have gone to the dealership (STEALERSHIP is a far more accurate term with this vehicle in mind) and been handed a bill that was a major portion of the purchase price of this wreck?! Come on! Anti-up! I've already read a lot of your postings and many of you have been bent over without a reach around!
With just these small (SMALL?) issues noted it is beyond me why some people are convinced that these things are the best product since sliced bread and paper napkins! I really have questions about your intellect, or at least, your sanity. All I can say is that once I fix this scrap heap up it is being put up for sale and I will have a party when it goes down the road and I can no longer see its tail lights! I have another 1998 Explorer almost ready to go and I can assure you that it has everything that the Liberty wishes it could have, like more room, more power, more ground clearance, more options, more after market support, more of everything, plus, and superiority on all counts!!
Thank you for letting me spill my displeasure to all of you. I know that many will have opposite opinions, but, I just had to blow up somewhere! I live in a town of idiots so there is no one around here that would even understand my frustrations.
Done and gone!