I HATE the Liberty!

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Horse_Feathers

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Yes, I am a Newbie. As we used to say, a NFG for those who remember that stuff. I am here really because I just have no where else to vent. It's that simple. Really, it is!

I have worked on a lot of vehicles over the past 50+ years. I've seen some that were pretty poorly engineered and built. However, the 2002 Liberty that I recently bought takes the cake! This thing is the worst POS I have ever owned, bar none, period!

Let me preface this rant with the statement that I would not have bought this trash heap if the magazines had thought to stop kissing ***** and written realistic reviews. One think that American magazines refuse to do is actually provide any honest criticisms about designs and reliability issues from the manufacturers. Oh my! If they say anything negative then the lawyers will swoop in and sue them to death! Pansies! That's for another time, though.

Anyway, I have had to use and drive many Jeeps. Mostly the real ones that a certain "Uncle" that many of us know well. Those had their own idiosyncrasies, but, they served us very well, unlike that junk heap Hummer! Again, another issue for another time. I have also driven a 1997 Wrangler that belonged to a girl that I almost married. I loved that Jeep far more than she, apparently, loved me. (I wonder if she figured that out? Naaaaaaaaaah! She was a tramp and nothing more. LOL)

Of those older "REAL JEEPS" I had a lot of fond memories and respect. That is what clouded my mind when I agreed to buy this "pig in a poke". One of my neighbors was in bad shape and I was looking for a winter vehicle since I had just sold my 1998 Explorer XLT to another lady friend who absolutely fell head over heels in love with it! She was totally enthralled with the changes and improvements to it and wouldn't take no for an answer. So, she took it and went to FLA and I took that money and bought this garbage scow! STUPID ME!!! Anyway, those CJs, Djs, FJs, JJs, or whatever darn letter series they had were actually fun and not too hard to service. They were a special vehicle for special people. It was a selective toy for selective folks and I have never been able to find anyone who could ride in one with the top down and a warm summer day and NOT SMILE from ear to ear! It just is not humanly possible. Of course, they had to go and ruin it.

So, with all of that preamble now out of the way, here is my true rant on this white elephant that now clutters up my driveway.

By now, many of you are aware of the issues with trying to change the starters when they go bad. Having to drop one of the propeller shafts and other stuff, sometimes including the exhaust system, just to change a starter that is no larger than some used on model airplanes is just moronic! If even one of those half witted knuckleheads that designed this thing had even thought about having to service this part they may have considered making it a bit less challenging!

I see two easy ways they could have solved that annoying issue with a minimum of brain power. First, a small notch in the side of the bell housing would allow the starter to slide right out. Alternately, locating the propeller shaft that serves the front transfer case 1/2", (YES! EXACTLY ONE HALF OF AN INCH!) to the left would allow more than enough clearance! HELLOOOOOO!!????????? ANYBODY HOME AT CHRYSLER/JEEP?! Another way would have been to grind away a small part of the starter casting, ohhhh, say maybe 1/4", right by the solenoid boss and it would have dropped right into any mechanic's hands! Or, maybe the could even have made the catalytic converter either slightly smaller in diameter OR moved it further down the damn pipe! Either of those ideas would have made that starter change the simple procedure that they have been in almost any car or truck ever made! DUH????!!!

So, THAT, folks, was my introduction to why I believe these things only had a five year production span. I believe, by the way, that was SIX YEARS longer than it should have been built!

Add to this the rear DRUM BRAKES! Why in the world would they still be using such things, anyway? They have been obsolete since the early 60s. Disc brakes were around even earlier, but, were a bit too expensive for the American market. Too advanced, too. That is a different story, though. Anyway, the drum brakes are the same ones that all of my generation grew up using and replacing. I just am amazed that Jeep would still use them on what was supposed to be a higher end model. (The only thing high were the idio engineers who designed this garbage can!)

Maybe I should mention the ******** excuse for a tail gate, too? Which is it, a hatch or a door? The engineering staff didn't even figure that part out so how are the owners supposed to do so? How many have had those stupid piston sockets break off on the rear window and the needed to replace the entire piece of glass instead of a $1.00 part?! Hmmmmm?!

I expect that the worst issue, though, is the way the rocker panels rust out almost instantly! What kind of cheap Chinese metal were they using and why couldn't anyone even suggest the idea of weep holes to let all of the road crap be flushed out? I've seen plenty of rocker rust over the years, but, not as bad as this. In addition, there are plenty of replacement panels available (or were) which means that they knew there would be a problem and planned ahead for raking in plenty of money with replacements services!

That, ladies and gents, is my take on a product that should never have been released until AFTER some of those dingbat engineers had tried to get one serviced! How many of you have gone to the dealership (STEALERSHIP is a far more accurate term with this vehicle in mind) and been handed a bill that was a major portion of the purchase price of this wreck?! Come on! Anti-up! I've already read a lot of your postings and many of you have been bent over without a reach around!

With just these small (SMALL?) issues noted it is beyond me why some people are convinced that these things are the best product since sliced bread and paper napkins! I really have questions about your intellect, or at least, your sanity. All I can say is that once I fix this scrap heap up it is being put up for sale and I will have a party when it goes down the road and I can no longer see its tail lights! I have another 1998 Explorer almost ready to go and I can assure you that it has everything that the Liberty wishes it could have, like more room, more power, more ground clearance, more options, more after market support, more of everything, plus, and superiority on all counts!!

Thank you for letting me spill my displeasure to all of you. I know that many will have opposite opinions, but, I just had to blow up somewhere! I live in a town of idiots so there is no one around here that would even understand my frustrations.

Done and gone!
 

profdlp

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Gee, sorry to see you go. You seem like such a pleasant person... :happy175:
 

Cpt Marvel

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The "jeeps" used in the military weren't built by jeep. Not since the early 40s anyway. Even most of the jeeps used in WW2 weren't built by jeep, but by willys overland. They were mostly built by a company called am general. Sure, they were called jeeps. But that came from the acronym GP. Or General Purpose. They were also referred to as MUTTS: Military Utility Tactical Truck. Also as Truck, Utility, 1/4 ton, 4x4, M151/a1 and a2. After those wore out, we got the pos CUCV. The commercial utility cargo vehicle. Chevy Blazers and 1 1/4 ton pickups with Diesel engines. A stop gap measure that didn't work out too well. Now, all that being said, and having an 03 KJ, I read all these posts about the issues folks have with the vehicle particularly the valve seat issue which costs big bucks to repair. And I wonder why people love them so. I'm found of the maneuverability. Very nice turning radius on that vehicle. I'm done. Supplemental rant over. LOL!
 

tommudd

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I'm so happy he shared
complete BS
But at least we know where he stands now......................:shrug:
yep out along the road beside of his Exploder:happy175:
 

teeje

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I'm so happy he shared

complete BS

But at least we know where he stands now......................:shrug:

yep out along the road beside of his Exploder:happy175:


Or getting pulled out of a ditch. By a jeep.

Sorry for your loss. That Liberty should get a new owner. Feel free to give it to one of us here. We'll definitely show it some love right fellas?


2002 Jeep Liberty 3.7L with brand new engine ;)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tommudd

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To Horse_feathers
Sorry you had some issues with yours
I love mine and have had no real issues at all in the 04 I bought new and over 219,000 miles now, no rust etc
I've bought up an 05, an 03 a 02 that needs some motor work and more than likely another 03 that has over 245,000 miles and no rust still runs good.
So seems like you got one that someone abused and didn't take good care of.
Sorry but I'll take a KJ over any Explorer any day and yes sadly I did own one of them for two years as a DD , ( under protest ) the then wife always drove my Jeep and left me with her POS Explorer
So good luck and again sorry you had issues with yours

OH and all of mine ARE REAL JEEP's as well :whip:
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RenKJ

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Im pretty positive this guy is trying to troll
 

boboborino

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Actually,as I kept reading, I thought "this can't be for real"! I got a little riled up at first then started laughing. It is over the top. Maybe some college kid doing a social experiment on the effects of negative comments posted on a social media forum. I'd say he's going to fail.
:happy175:

Bert
 

uss2defiant

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i didn't even know the 02 had drum brakes o.0.
Did they make the change in the 03 models or some time in the 02 production they changed to rear disc brakes?

so glad i have an 03.
 

CzarKJ

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i didn't even know the 02 had drum brakes o.0.
Did they make the change in the 03 models or some time in the 02 production they changed to rear disc brakes?

so glad i have an 03.
My 03 made in December 02 has disc. I think they figure out early on that drums in the rear was not enough stopping power.
 

LibertyTC

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That is one of the longest rants I've ever seen!
I like it when he states "recently bought"....
Dude when you buy a 13 yr old Jeep that has rotted out rocker panels..don't you think that maybe they did not look after this rig overall?
It was your choice to buy it & you could have bought a cleaner/newer one to start with, or was it just a cheap price that intrigued you? :happy175:
Let me guess... you never inspected anything before you bought it, and then later discovered drum brakes. and other problems....
If you can't handle a challenge in changing brakes or a starter, you should have taken it to a shop with a lift!
All vehicle's Parts do break down and wear with mileage.
You have to get your hands dirty to change em, get a few scrapes and scratches, so either suck it up, & learn how read the FSM & or learn how to wrench!! :whip:
We like our KJ's because they are sturdy & there is good parts support for them.
Overall, they are fairly easy to work on, & as far as I'm concerned, the best jeep ever made...!:gr_grin:
 

LibertyTC

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Brian in line 2 of his rant he clearly states:
"However, the 2002 Liberty that I recently bought takes the cake!"
This newbie wouldn't even know the difference between a kJ or a KK anyways!
He just posted it in the wrong section, like so many others.
 

sota

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Horse_Feathers

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If I was a bit too ******* your precious toy, TOO BAD! OK. Maybe I was a bit hard lined, but, I'm used to being direct and when I get wound up I get nasty. What I loathe is the way this thing was never well planned or never thought out. It is very obvious to me why it only had a five year market life.

Meanwhile, Cpt. Marvel, I went to basic not too far from your town. I am VERY well aware of the M-151, the M-37, the M-35A2, the M-4 and the M-113. We had all of them in the A-Shaw Valley. THOSE were good vehicles!

Boboborino sounds like you may have watched too much of Welcome Back Cotter, to me.

Mr. Mudd! Let the name speak for itself! Was Harcort Fenton Mudd your father?

As for RenKJ, probably is that the same Ren that goes with Stimpy, Eh? Like stay up in the Great White North, hoser, Eh?! By the way, that "i" on iphone is for IDIOT, EH?!

Now, with all of the obligatory "pleasantries", jabs and platitudes firmly dispensed, I will finish this here and now.

I may have been a bit harsh about the Liberty. Just as with any recent vehicle, it has its share of issues. The "Exploder" has had them, too. However, at least I cab reach the bloody starter and not have to all but remove the engine to get to it! Also, the EX is STILL in production. Where is your precious little tin box? Hmmmmm! I don't see it!!!

Why did I buy this bucket of bolts? Because my neighbor needed money for her cancer medication! Her insurance has screwed things up and she was short on her meds. She is too proud to just take a "donation" or even a "loan" so I offered to buy her Liberty. She can no longer drive and it had been sitting around since she hasn't the money to have it fixed. Her ex dirt bag husband ran off when she was diagnosed and has not been seen since. That is why I bought it.

I have been working on automobiles since before most of you were born! I was a partner in a body shop and fixed more metal than you can imagine. I've seen bad designs where there was no proper drainage when low quality metal use used. This is the worst example. Oh! I can fix it and do it better than the factory could ever imagine. I just don't see that it should have ever been necessary, especially, on a vehicle this new. I've seen plenty of cars and trucks from before 1965 that have never rusted and never had a bath, either.

Now that you know WHY I bought it let's go back to the bad engineering. The problem that got me so pissed off is that no one ever thought about servicing the vehicle when it was designed. That is the biggest problem with American engineering. I am of the firm belief that every automobile engineer should spend about 4 years, or more, in a service bay turning wrenches before he is ever allowed to design anything other than a go cart! I believe a few of the European companies do exactly that.

Since I have already listed the issues that blew my gaskets for me I won't go through them again. As I stated at the very beginning, I needed to have someplace to blow off steam within a group that at least understood what I was saying. Yelling at Chrysler is like yelling at a storm. They couldn't care one iota about a vehicle that as far as they are concerned, does not even exist. (Just for the record, I was a Chrysler mechanic in the mid 70s so I know their products well. In the mid to late 70s they were the best, bar none.) That is the way of the car world now. Get them out the door and don't bother with complaints. There is always another sucker to buy our stuff.

Ah, I digress. Again, I have read a lot about these things, after the fact. All it does is support my opinion that this was a lemon from day one. No wonder it went out of production after only a few years. Damn! Even the Ford Pinto lasted longer than that!

Enjoy it! Every vehicle has a loyal following. As long as it keeps all of you happy AND you don't mind shucking out stupid money and excessive labor, then go for it. As I said, I'm fixing the trash heap up and dumping it. If I am lucky, I MAY recover my costs. Damn! I may even make a few bucks on it since there seem to be plenty of suckers who like these things. All I know is that once it's gone, I will be happy and will gloat like crazy when I use my EX to pull yet another one out of a snow bank or a ditch.

See y'all in Hell!
 

tommudd

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Horse_Feathers

WE DO NOT TOLERATE PERSONAL ATTACKS ON MEMBERS HERE
CALLING PEOPLE NAMES IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO BE LONG TERM MEMBER
LET THIS BE THE FIRST WARNING


iF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE VEHICLE FINE, SELL IT AND MOVE ON
iF YOU ARE SITTING BACK AND GETTING YOUR JOLLIES BY TICKING OFF MEMBERS HERE, AGAIN MOVE ALONG

WE GET IT THAT FOR SOME REASON YOU DO NOT LIKE THE KJ , MANY OF US DO AND HAVE OWNED THEM FOR YEARS INSTEAD OF DAYS.

ANOTHER DAY, AND MORE POSTS LIKE ABOVE .............:emotions34::thumbsdown:

UNACCEPTABLE
QUOTE:
Boboborino sounds like you may have watched too much of Welcome Back Cotter, to me.

Mr. Mudd! Let the name speak for itself! Was Harcort Fenton Mudd your father?

As for RenKJ, probably is that the same Ren that goes with Stimpy, Eh? Like stay up in the Great White North, hoser, Eh?! By the way, that "i" on iphone is for IDIOT, EH?!
UNQUOTE:
 

RenKJ

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This guy is just a troll, didnt bother with that last wall of text, i just cant believe an adult has time to type all that in the hopes of irritating someone / anyone, pretty sad,

anyways for a thread tl : dr

op buys beat up jeep, blames design, doesnt know how to swap a starter even though all you need to do is drop the front shaft, gg try getting a warrantied prius next time
 

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