Emissions Laws Discussion

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dude1116

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I'm going to try this...because with all the riff-raff going on about emissions and laws regarding them, I figured it might be helpful to open up a thread regarding federal and state emissions standards that a consumer vehicle needs to pass.

There's a lot of info on the web! And I'm curious to see what I hear that is true and what I hear that is false.

According to the EPA.gov website...there are NO federal laws that a consumer needs to be concerned with. Here is ALL of the consumer information that one needs to know...put together in some really corny and retro brochures!! :bleh:

Cars and Light Trucks | US EPA

What I've taken from the site, is that the only FEDERAL standards that are put in place regard vehicle manufacturers. Consumer emission standards seem to be put in place by each state. According to Wikipedia (not a completely reliable source I know, so I don't take this as definite), the only state that BY LAW holds onto "volunteer emissions testing" is the state of Alabama.

Alabama smog check | DMV.org

Anyway I figured this would be interesting to discuss.

To the admins: The point of this thread is to not fight or bash, but merely discuss rules and regulations. My hope is that this thread does NOT get out of control, however, if it does, my apologies.

If this is not in the correct section, once again, my apologies.

:cheers:
 

tommudd

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:mfr_omg:big old can of worms opened up and they're already crawling all over
You need to dig deeper for the right information IMO
There are federal and State laws to be followed, local jurisdictions have no say and some times do not even have a clue what they are
California of course is about or is the strictest, but as California goes, so does everywhere else
Engine Changes
An engine change involves swapping a car engine with another that is not identical, under California law. The state insists that the newly-installed block must be the same age or newer than the one coming out of the car. It must be from the same type of vehicle, such as a passenger car or light duty truck. If the car is California-certified then the engine going in to the car must also be California-certified. Car owners must make sure an engine change does not increase pollution levels, according to California's Air Resources Board. Car owners must submit their car for inspection after an engine change takes place. This is carried out at a state referee station where the vehicle is subject to an emissions test and checked to see that all required equipment is where it should be under California law.
This is just an example. SEMA and other automotive interest groups have information on all levels as to what is or isn't allowed.

Remember also, state and federal anti–tampering laws generally prohibit any modification to the vehicle's original emission control system configuration as certified by the manufacturer. And, again in California Section 3362.1 of the California Code of Regulations prohibits any engine change that degrades the effectiveness of a vehicle's emission control system.
 
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tommudd

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Vehicles have to meet the emissions standards for the year the vehicle is assembled. Vehicle manufacturers have to certify that their vehicles meet EPA emissions standards.
Just as the EPA does not allow an individual to reverse engineer a vehicle to defeat emission standards, they do not allow an individual to build a brand new "old" vehicle to bypass emissions standards.

Which simply means you can not install an older engine in a vehicle that came from the factory with smog equipment, its illegal period. So if you have an 04 KJ it must have all smog certified equipment for that year. NOW you can install a later model engine while using the equipment that came on that engine and be OK. But you can not install a say 1987 in a 2004

But of course some people are doing it, which makes it double hard for others trying to do it legit to make it legal and pass all of the requirements

Now on with the arguments on the subject of "What is that laying on the sidewalk a pile of dog poo or dog shi* "
Everyone will have a different take depending on how big, color, smell and taste.
 
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tommudd

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MORE
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/policies/civil/caa/mobile/engswitch.pdf

ENGINE SWITCHING FACT SHEET UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY WASHINGTON, D.C. 20460 March 13, 1991 OFFICE OF AIR AND RADIATION Pursuant to frequent requests for information received by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regarding the legality and effects of engine switching, this document will summarize federal law and policy pertaining to this matter, and will discuss other related issues. A. Federal Law The federal tampering prohibition is contained in section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act (Act), 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3). Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Act prohibits any person from removing or rendering inoperative any emission control device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine prior to its sale and delivery to an ultimate purchaser and prohibits any person from knowingly removing or rendering inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery, and the causing thereof. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section by a manufacturer or dealer is $25,000; for any other person, $2,500. Section 203(a)(3)(B) of the Act prohibits any person from manufacturing or selling, or offering to sell, or installing, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or is being installed for such use. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section is $2,500. EPA received many questions regarding the application of this law to a situation where one engine is removed from a vehicle and another engine is installed in its place. EPA's policy regarding "engine switching" is covered under the provisions of Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum No. lA (Attachment 1). This policy states that EPA will not consider any modification to a "certified configuration" to be a violation of federal law if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected. In many cases, proper emission testing according to the Federal Test Procedure would be necessary to make this determination. 2 A "certified configuration" is an engine or engine chassis design which has been "certified" (approved) by EPA prior to the production of vehicles with that design. Generally, the manufacturer submits an application for certification of the designs of each engine or vehicle it proposes to manufacture prior to production. The application includes design requirements for all emission related parts, engine calibrations, and other design parameters for each different type of engine (in heavy-duty vehicles), or engine chassis combination (in light-duty vehicles). EPA then "certifies" each acceptable design for use, in vehicles of the upcoming model year. For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty eng~ne into a different light-duty vehicle by any person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle manufacturer. For heavy-duty vehicles, the resulting vehicle must contain a heavy-duty engine which is identical to a certified configura- tion of a heavy-duty engine of the same model year or newer as the year of the installed engine. Under no circumstances, however, may a heavy-duty engine ever be installed in a light-duty vehicle. The most common engine replacement involves replacing a gasoline engine in a light-duty vehicle with another gasoline engine. Another type of engine switching which commonly occurs, however, involves diesel powered vehicles where the diesel engine is removed and replaced with a gasoline engine. Applying the above policy, such a replacement is legal only if the resulting engine-chassis configuration is equivalent to a certified configuration of the same model year or newer as the chassis. If the vehicle chassis in question has been certified with gasoline, as well as diesel engines(as is common), such a conversion could be done legally. Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-built engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in this country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally. EPA has recently brought enforcement actions against certain parties who have violated the tampering prohibition by performing illegal engine switches. It should be noted that while EPA's policy allows engine switches as long as the resulting vehicle matches exactly to anv certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the chassis, there are some substantial practical limitations to performing such a replacement. Vehicle chassis and engine designs of one vehicle manufacturer are very distinct from those of another, such that it is generally not possible to put an engine into a chassis of a different manufacturer and have it match up to a certified configuration. Therefore, practical considerations will generally limit engine switches to installation of another engine which was certified to be used in that same make and model (or a "twin" of that make and model, e.g., Pontiac Grand Am and Oldsmobile Calais). In addition, converting a vehicle into a different certified configuration is likely to be very difficult, and the cost may prove prohibitive. B. State Laws Many states also have statutes or regulations prohibiting tampering in general. Most of these laws specifically prohibit tampering by individuals. A few specifically prohibit engine switching, using provisions similar to those stated in EPA's policy. To determine the state law in any given state, the state's Attorney General's office should be contacted. In addition, many states have state or local antitampering inspection programs which require a periodic inspection of vehicles in that area, to determine the integrity of emission control systems. Many programs have established policies for vehicles which have been engine switched. While EPA does not require these programs to fail engine switched vehicles which are not in compliance with federal policy, the Agency does strongly recommend that these programs set their requirements so as to be consistent with the federal law. State or local programs which pass illegally engine switched vehicles may mislead federally regulated parties into believing that engine switching is allowed by federal law.
 

dude1116

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Interesting. So the laws are in place...but even certain state and local legislations are unaware. So in a state that doesn't require emissions testing...how would one even be prosecuted by the federal government?

Where did you get this info by the way? I was looking everywhere fro info on engine swaps.
 

tommudd

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Just typed in legal engine swaps or something like that and went through a few car building forums, government websites, etc.
 

tjkj2002

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Interesting. So the laws are in place...but even certain state and local legislations are unaware. So in a state that doesn't require emissions testing...how would one even be prosecuted by the federal government?

Where did you get this info by the way? I was looking everywhere fro info on engine swaps.
When you sell it and it get's sold in a area that emissions or inspections are required.Even if you sell a vehicle with all the correct emission stuff on it to someone in a emission area you are responsible to make it passes the sniffer test,if it does not the owner can legally come after you and you will pay up as it's a easy win.Most states that do emissions do it via the vehicles PCM and on-board monitors by plugging in a scanner.This get's a lot of people since if they clear the codes then get tested the monitors have not run yet and they fail.In the case of what's his name putting a carb'd 350 in his KJ you'd get nothing out of the OBDII plug so instant fail again.

Also tampering with a good cat(functioning) or cutting out a good cat is a $2500 per cat fine.


Cops now days are actually enforcing these laws even in non-smog testing area's as they are getting pressure from the EPA.Edge got slammed awhile back for bypassing emission stuff with there tunes.There cracking down hard around here.
 

streetglideok

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Interesting. So the laws are in place...but even certain state and local legislations are unaware. So in a state that doesn't require emissions testing...how would one even be prosecuted by the federal government?

Where did you get this info by the way? I was looking everywhere fro info on engine swaps.

I think you will find nearly all states have mirror laws on the books of the federal regs. That being said, a trooper can pull you over and inspect for emissions compliance. If you are not compliant, well it may be a very expensive fix-it-ticket. I have seen in several states, and recently here in Colorado, in Colorado Springs, where there is a mobile emissions test station on the on-ramp. In this case, the north bound on ramp of Academy blvd and I25. As vehicles go by, it sniffs the emissions, and it can take a snapshot of your license tag. Just because your state doesn't actively test, doesn't mean they can't generate some revenue.
 

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Okay so ever since all this started strictly because of me.... I've been really looking into it. I don't wanna have to pay at least $2500 in fines Lol. Anyways I googled "do dune buggys have to pass emissions" thinking maybe I could call it a "dune buggy" if need be. Then I ran across this which is from ca.gov (California DMV) and this makes since cause my insurance agent called it a special vehicle. I can pass emissions with a carbd 350!! At least in Cali. So I am going to try to do it here in Bama. Just so I'm not doing anything illegal at all and we can drop it haha. This is what California said

What is an SPCNS Certificate of Sequence?
An SPCNS certificate of sequence identifies a vehicle as one for which the owner may choose an emission control inspection based on the year model of the vehicle or the engine used in the vehicle (If the vehicle or engine does not resemble one previously manufactured, the referee will assign 1960 as the year model)

So I take it to get it inspected for the swap. I choose they use the motor for the year model. They then put a sticker on my car saying I pass emissions for the year of my motor not the body. I suppose it practically looks like a 1985 Chevy at that point on paper. So I'm going to make some phone calls Monday and get to the bottom of this Specially Constructed vehicle and see if I can do that.

Here's the link:
Specially Constructed Vehicles Emission Control

Not saying this will work but I'm gonna try
 
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kj04libby

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Yep!! Alabama DMV does have this!! I'm going to get a new title that will say ASSEMBLED and my jeep will get a new VIN number. So I'm gonna go thru the hoops and get it done legally so we can get passed all this! Thanks for all the hate or else I would've never looked into it! Lol. As soon as I get my new title I'll take a picture of it and show y'all. I appreciate it. Now that this is outta the way can I get on with my build thread without the hate about emission? Lol.
 

tjkj2002

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Okay so ever since all this started strictly because of me.... I've been really looking into it. I don't wanna have to pay at least $2500 in fines Lol. Anyways I googled "do dune buggys have to pass emissions" thinking maybe I could call it a "dune buggy" if need be. Then I ran across this which is from ca.gov (California DMV) and this makes since cause my insurance agent called it a special vehicle. I can pass emissions with a carbd 350!! At least in Cali. So I am going to try to do it here in Bama. Just so I'm not doing anything illegal at all and we can drop it haha. This is what California said

What is an SPCNS Certificate of Sequence?
An SPCNS certificate of sequence identifies a vehicle as one for which the owner may choose an emission control inspection based on the year model of the vehicle or the engine used in the vehicle (If the vehicle or engine does not resemble one previously manufactured, the referee will assign 1960 as the year model)

So I take it to get it inspected for the swap. I choose they use the motor for the year model. They then put a sticker on my car saying I pass emissions for the year of my motor not the body. I suppose it practically looks like a 1985 Chevy at that point on paper. So I'm going to make some phone calls Monday and get to the bottom of this Specially Constructed vehicle and see if I can do that.

Here's the link:
Specially Constructed Vehicles Emission Control

Not saying this will work but I'm gonna try
To do something like that your '04 KJ can not look like a '04 KJ anymore,extreme body mods will be needed like starting with a tube chassis.
 

kj04libby

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To do something like that your '04 KJ can not look like a '04 KJ anymore,extreme body mods will be needed like starting with a tube chassis.

It said requirements are a kit car, or a car built from new or used parts, or a vehicle that junk and going to be dismantled that was made to run with parts that would not make it original.

I was on the verge of scrapping it. So I claim the last catagory
 

tommudd

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Yep!! Alabama DMV does have this!! I'm going to get a new title that will say ASSEMBLED and my jeep will get a new VIN number. So I'm gonna go thru the hoops and get it done legally so we can get passed all this! Thanks for all the hate or else I would've never looked into it! Lol. As soon as I get my new title I'll take a picture of it and show y'all. I appreciate it. Now that this is outta the way can I get on with my build thread without the hate about emission? Lol.

Sorry won't work, this is for a special construction , like building a tube frame dune buggy etc. Even if you only used the shell of the KJ as a starting place for the build it would still use whatever year it was made. One example is fiberglassed dune buggys, you have replaced all of the body, only using the VW pan/ engine etc but they will still title it as whatever year the VW was.
You'd need to do a lot more than just replace the engine and transmission to get a special construction title.
 

kj04libby

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"built for private use, not for resale"
-ca.gov

And
all I do is show my receipt for all my parts and a bill of sake for the engine and trans. Then a bill of sale for the jeep. And if the parts cost more than the jeep it'll work. And considering I'm making these bills of sale. Its going to work out just like that lol
 

kj04libby

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And it says on there that I can have a frame or chasis that came from a manufacturer they just want me to use it and dont sell it to anyone.
 

tjkj2002

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It said requirements are a kit car, or a car built from new or used parts, or a vehicle that junk and going to be dismantled that was made to run with parts that would not make it original.

I was on the verge of scrapping it. So I claim the last catagory
That means you must have the title changed to "salvaged" or the like then pretty much kiss any chance of getting insurance.Just because you were going to scrape it does not mean you qualify,it must be determined by the insurance company and the title to prove it.
 

kj04libby

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That means you must have the title changed to "salvaged" or the like then pretty much kiss any chance of getting insurance.Just because you were going to scrape it does not mean you qualify,it must be determined by the insurance company and the title to prove it.






Good thing I've already got insurance on the swap. People get insurance on salvaged titles all the time. People might be scared to buy one but insurance will definitely cover one.

And the title would only be SALVAGED for a while. Then I would get a specially constsruted title. That would state ASSEMBLED.
 
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tjkj2002

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Good thing I've already got insurance on the swap. People get insurance on salvaged titles all the time. People might be scared to buy one but insurance will definitely cover one.

And the title would only be SALVAGED for a while. Then I would get a specially constsruted title. That would state ASSEMBLED.
You do not know much about insurance.You never loose that salvaged title and since you owned it with a clean title the insurance must total it,that means you no longer own it,then you have to buy it back.The VIN for your KJ then will always be flagged as salvaged regardless of what is done.To change the VIN you can not choose what year,it get'***** with the current year you apply for the VIN so now you'd have to pass '13 or '14 emissions which a perfectly running '04 KJ(stock) would never do.
 

kj04libby

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You do not know much about insurance.You never loose that salvaged title and since you owned it with a clean title the insurance must total it,that means you no longer own it,then you have to buy it back.The VIN for your KJ then will always be flagged as salvaged regardless of what is done.To change the VIN you can not choose what year,it get'***** with the current year you apply for the VIN so now you'd have to pass '13 or '14 emissions which a perfectly running '04 KJ(stock) would never do.

Did you read that link at all? The new Vin states it for the year of chassis or motor. My choice! Read that article all the way.
 
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