Bought a non-working '02 Liberty, where to start?

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CactusJacked

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I've sold a lot more than I've bought off craigslist. The last one I parted out was my 90 Wrangler. Still have some parts left, but I'm in the $4k neighborhood for parts sold vs the POS having been worth $1k whole. But, it can be a pain dealing with craigslist idiots.
I would look at this one as quickly as possible, good 3.7 engines are here today gone tomorrow. The majority of the ones I see being parted out are due to having a bad engine. The good thing is you can hear this one run and drive it, and it includes the trans. Bring along someone with a good ear for mechanical engine noises.
 

tenpin3000

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Got it. So at this point I should pull the valve covers to see if the cylinder heads are salveageable?

Depends. If you find a complete motor then yes. If you mean find a block only no cylinder heads put your parts on it, then it's a maybe because you need to see what parts are good on yours.

It's very likely the cylinder heads On the motor now have been trashed. But there is still a chance they are ok. A extremely violent event occurred inside your motor, from the damage we have seen its bad but there is no set rule for what has to be damaged, it's the kind of thing you'll only learns on tear down.

When you buy a complete used motor in general you'll need to swap over stuff like oil pan, intake, exhaust manifolds, valve covers, sometimes sensors.




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tenpin3000

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Yes I'm thinking of doing an engine swap. Which of the following would you recommend:

1) Swapping with a crate engine

2) Finding a good core and rebuild it

3) Scrap this car for parts.

My suspicions about it being a piston/rod issue came true, but wow, I didn't expect the piston to have gotten gobbled up like that. You can see the counterweight of the crank, but not the journal end to know if that part got damaged. But considering it was the crank journal that was beating up and grinding the rod and piston.... I'm sure it's beyond toast. A nut or bolt in the cylinder can ruin everything, but an entire piston, rod, and rings getting ground apart? I'd be very surprised if the block, crank and head didn't get totally trashed. Bottom line, your engine has to come out regardless, this isn't an in-car fix. Dismantling the engine at this point is likely to be more for post mortem show & tell entertainment.
 

tenpin3000

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In the engine what parts among these are the most expensive?:

1) Cylinder head

2) Connecting rod

3) Pistons

For example, let's say I found a good block for $300, and half of the engine parts (e.g. cylinder head, connecting rod, pistons) were ok. Would it make more sense to do the swap with a good block or buy a new engine outright?


I did a search for used, found a 2002 3.7 with lower miles is in the area. No price online.
Somebody here bought a low mileage motor from Mexico for the same year I think. May check back with him to see if it worked out.

You have a few options depending what years are available in your area.

If your budget is hurting maybe somebody near by will have a good block or like I do a block and cylinder heads the need to be cleaned and reassembled. It wouldn't be worth shipping anything half assed, finding a complete motor would be your best bet. Or disassemble what you have to see how dead it is. (I think it's toast and hate telling someone just starting working on cars to take on needlessly the task of disassembling a complicated motor)



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tenpin3000

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One thing I'm curious about, the cylinder he showed was the first and only one he scoped, the scope got stuck. Did he just hit it lucky, or did more than just this one cylinder blow apart?

Yes this is the only cylinder I scoped. I can buy another endoscope but I fear it will get stuck again lol. Will I be able to tell if the other cylinder heads blew by removing the valve covers?
 

CactusJacked

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Correct me if I'm wrong but does using an engine from a salvaged title make my car a salvage title?

No, the "salvaged title" branding pertains to the vehicle body, not it's parts.


Yes I'm thinking of doing an engine swap. Which of the following would you recommend:

1) Swapping with a crate engine

2) Finding a good core and rebuild it

3) Scrap this car for parts.

1) Price out a crate engine and see if that fits your budget.
2) If you're not doing the rebuild yourself, then buying a rebuildable engine and paying to have it rebuilt would cost more than a crate engine.
3) It's worth more in parts than as it sits now. Is your Liberty in nice shape other than the engine? With 157k miles, you may or may not be living on borrowed time as far as the life of the transmission. That's why the 99k mile engine I found on craigslist which includes the trans, is a good deal provided it's a sound engine.
 

tenpin3000

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Do you think I need to change the transmission as well? I found a guy who will do the whole engine swap with warranty for $1000-1200, should I do it?
No, the "salvaged title" branding pertains to the vehicle body, not it's parts.




1) Price out a crate engine and see if that fits your budget.
2) If you're not doing the rebuild yourself, then buying a rebuildable engine and paying to have it rebuilt would cost more than a crate engine.
3) It's worth more in parts than as it sits now. Is your Liberty in nice shape other than the engine? With 157k miles, you may or may not be living on borrowed time as far as the life of the transmission. That's why the 99k mile engine I found on craigslist which includes the trans, is a good deal provided it's a sound engine.


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JasonJ

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tenpin, you asked a lot of questions in a row.. so I'll do my best here.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does using an engine from a salvaged title make my car a salvage title? No, it does not. The title is tied to and remains to the vehicle body/chassis. Not the engine.

So at this point I should pull the valve covers to see if the cylinder heads are salveageable? Yes. It will also get you your scope back. However I would put money on the cylinder heads (at least the one on the side with the bad piston) being trashed and unusable. I once had a Ford 1.9L drop a PIECE of the valve seat, a bit of metal about 1/4" long. It looked like someone had dropped a bucket of metal BB's into the cylinder while running. Head was garbage.

Yes I'm thinking of doing an engine swap. Which of the following would you recommend:

1) Swapping with a crate engine Could... would need to swap some parts over from old engine, if usable. This is basically a new engine. Expensive option, but reliable.

2) Finding a good core and rebuild it This is buying someone else's blown engine and making it good again. You're betting on their blown engine being less messed up than yours. I don't care for this option.

3) Scrap this car for parts. This is going to be decided by your budget and willingness to deal with it. If you made it to F*** it, then part it out. If you can afford (time and money) to fix this truck, then this doesn't make sense.

In the engine what parts among these are the most expensive?:

1) Cylinder head cyl heads are the most expensive of the 3 options you have provided. But keep in mind, in your case, the block may be damaged as well, and can easily outweigh the cost of heads.

2) Connecting rod

3) Pistons

For example, let's say I found a good block for $300, and half of the engine parts (e.g. cylinder head, connecting rod, pistons) were ok. Would it make more sense to do the swap with a good block or buy a new engine outright? IF, and I mean IF you tore your engine down, and separated the good parts from the bad, and it turned out such that the half of the donor engine that was good, was the same half that was bad on yours, you could theoretically piece together one good engine from two bad ones. This can be iffy though... The chances that either your heads or block are still good, are slim however. You'll know once you pull both cylinder heads and visually inspect the parts.

Will I be able to tell if the other cylinder heads blew by removing the valve covers? Probably not by pulling the covers... but by pulling the entire cylinder head you can determine if the valves, chambers, cylinders and pistons are damaged.

The best way to do this is to find a wrecked vehicle with a good engine, like the previously posted Craigslist ad.
 

Logan Savage

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Replacing your engine will not cause you to have a salvage title . You won't be able to tell if your heads are good by just removing the valve covers . At 160,000 miles they would need rebuilt before installing on another engine regardless .
In my opinion you need another complete engine whether it's a good used engine or a new crate engine . The 02's & 03's have the proper reluctor rings to work with the computer & wiring system in your jeep . A newer engine will require major disassembly & reassembly to install the correct reluctor rings . Jeep changed the computer system after 03 .
Not saying this to be mean in any way but your obvious lack of knowledge of engines doesn't give me much hope that you can successfully complete this engine swap yourself , not to mention the tools required to do so .
Unless the transmission & other parts have been rebuilt / replaced they also have 160'000 miles on them & could fail at any time . Good 3.7's aren't inexpensive & reputable shops don't work for cheap either . By the time you buy a good engine & have a reputable shop install it , I'd say it will take a minimum of 3 to 4 thousand dollars . More if you go with a crate engine .
The decision you now have to make is how much you are willing , or how much is a realistic dollar amount to invest in a vehicle that is 14 years old & has 160'000 miles on it .

Several of the above posts were made while I was posting .
 
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Conundrum2006

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Personally I'd go for the Craig's list option, it's a good price for both, as long as it's in good shape.

I'd avoid someone's failed engine, there always goin to be a problem because there's a reason it was pulled, usually overheating. My old Motor is technically good but had a gunk problem that clogged the oil pick up nearly killing it. It's a lot of work to get to zero on someone else nightmare.

Problem with a rebuilt heads and engine if you probably don't have what they would consider a usable core. So if you see a core fee listed kind of count on not getting that back


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Conundrum2006

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Do you think I need to change the transmission as well? I found a guy who will do the whole engine swap with warranty for $1000-1200, should I do it?



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$1200 with a motor? Or just his labor?


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Logan Savage

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The OP has an 02 & the craigslist ad is for an 04 . That means a teardown of the engine to swap reluctor rings . The crankshaft has to come completely out to accomplish this . Also the timing chain & the gear on the camshaft has to come off .
I have read a few disagreements pertaining to 04 models depending on whether or not they were early or late 04's . The sure way to tell is how many plugs the pcm has . The original computer systems used in 02's & 03's had a pcm with 3 plugs & the newer pcm's have 4 plugs . I think the intake manifold & other things would also have to be swapped .
 
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JasonJ

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If the 04 on the CL ad in question is indeed the 3-plug PCM, that is the no brainer way to get good working parts to fix the OP's Jeep.

If that is indeed the case, $1200 for a CL ad working and running engine/trans, figure if you have a friend or someone that will do a straight engine swap out for $400-$600 cash on the side... be in a good place then.

Of course, that assumes that the OP didnt overpay for a non-running Jeep in the first place. I'd hope not.
 

Logan Savage

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Are you saying he's supplying the engine & doing the swap for that amount ?
 

tenpin3000

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Are you saying he's supplying the engine & doing the swap for that amount ?

Yes, based on your reaction it sounds like I should take him up on his offer lol. I'll probably have to give him a hand for that price, but to me it seemed well worth it. We were going to get an engine from a crashed vehicle. He ask me just to pay for food and beers lol, most of the money is going towards the engine. He told me he could get one for $1000-1200, he's a certified mechanic with his own shop.
 
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Logan Savage

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Does this friend have a salvage yard or something ? Seems strange he has the engine you need & willing to put it in for that price . If this is a legitimate deal I'd jump on it but no money would change hands until I had a properly running jeep . The price is dirt cheap .

I see you edited your above post & answered my questions . How is he going to give you a warranty on a deal like that ?
 
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Conundrum2006

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That's the price of a motor is why I asked. The labor is a easy $1000 to $2000 depending on the shop


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