Bought a non-working '02 Liberty, where to start?

[tenpin3000]

@Logan Savage

I tried but I think I need to jack the car up, I can't really see around the pan. Please also note the oil level in the engine is just fine, it definitely has enough oil right now. If anything maybe the hole caused by the connecting rod is super small, but I think the oil is not coming from the engine, my personal opinion is that it's coming from somewhere else. But between tomorrow and Tuesday I am going to buy two jacks, then I can get a better look and take more photos for you as well

I still think you should slide under the engine with a good flashlight & look at both sides of the block above the oil pan as best you can . In the general vicinity of where the motor mounts bolt on . Oil running out , engine only turning a partial revolution , sounding more & more like a broken rod that knocked a hole in the block . It's easier to look than it is to turn wrenches .

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[tenpin3000]

Bert,

I don't think they want the turkey baster back lol. Thanks for the compliments, and yes I'm hoping it's just a timing chain and not a connecting rod, it would be cool to be driving a car I fixed myself

That's what working on your own vehicle will do! Good or Bad outcome on the motor, you'll be ten fold ahead with all the wrenching you are doing! Keep up the good work!



Just make sure you give that a good spit wash before returning it! Don't worry, we won't tell them.
You've received great advice so far. My guess is also timing chain. Again, keep up the great work

Bert

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[CactusJacked]

Need the back story on the Michael Jackson turkey baster story :icon_confused:. Looks like the digital scope is a worthwhile investment, gonna get it tomorrow, in the meanwhile going to take apart the front cover for kicks.

Without getting too graphic, let's just say that the story at the time was that at least one of his kids wasn't conceived by conventional methods. As strange as he was, could have been all 3 done that way. :emotions34:

 

[tenpin3000]

Without getting too graphic, let's just say that the story at the time was that at least one of his kids wasn't conceived by conventional methods. As strange as he was, could have been all 3 done that way. :emotions34:

I guess Billy Jean was the turkey probe's lover, not Michael's :happy175:

 

[JasonJ]

tenpin, I think I was incorrect in referencing rocker arms on this engine. I believe in this SOHC design, the camshaft journals (the oblong round-ish thingies) act directly on the valves themselves, as opposed to moving a pushrod which actuates the rocker arm, and this the valve lifter and the valve.

If you are going to pull just one valve cover, I'd suggest the drivers side. Unless all of your problem cylinders are on the right.. then pull that one, or both.

Either which way, a scope into the cylinders will tell you a lot, if not all, just as would pulling off the valve covers and then rotating the engine and observing.

It only takes one broken con-rod to cause what you are seeing in your engine, likewise, it only takes one messed up timing chain/guide/tensioner to do the same.

I think at this point, what you need to discover is if your short block is salvageable or not. If this issue is caused by either a broken rod, or damaged valvetrain, either which way I am sure those valves are smoked. Bent or broken. It's what damage, if any exists in the bottom end, connecting rods, block, pistons and cylinders.

 

[tenpin3000]

tenpin, I think I was incorrect in referencing rocker arms on this engine. I believe in this SOHC design, the camshaft journals (the oblong round-ish thingies) act directly on the valves themselves, as opposed to moving a pushrod which actuates the rocker arm, and this the valve lifter and the valve.

If you are going to pull just one valve cover, I'd suggest the drivers side. Unless all of your problem cylinders are on the right.. then pull that one, or both.

Either which way, a scope into the cylinders will tell you a lot, if not all, just as would pulling off the valve covers and then rotating the engine and observing.

It only takes one broken con-rod to cause what you are seeing in your engine, likewise, it only takes one messed up timing chain/guide/tensioner to do the same.

I think at this point, what you need to discover is if your short block is salvageable or not. If this issue is caused by either a broken rod, or damaged valvetrain, either which way I am sure those valves are smoked. Bent or broken. It's what damage, if any exists in the bottom end, connecting rods, block, pistons and cylinders.

Is it possible to pull of the valve cover by hand? Or will I need some kind of hoist/winch?

 

[Conundrum2006]

The cover is easy to do on the liberty. lightweight.
It will take some time to pull the parts to get to it, it you pulled the plugs and intake you are part way there.

I'll try to find the write up on how to do it.


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[Conundrum2006]

Here this is one of the write ups in video form. The drivers side maybe easier, just look to see if it is easier to get at. Sadly for my commander the job is very difficult, the liberty looks much easier.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQUBOQvRfUA


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9vCoO1g1Q8


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[Logan Savage]

The 3.7 V6 engine has two camshafts & has rocker arms but no pushrods . The lobes on the camshafts work the rocker arms which in turn work the valves .
I still think the oil that ran out is the key to this engines problems . Unless a broken timing chain caused an oil leak in the timing chain cover I don't think the timing chain is the main culprit .
The fact that the engine appears to be about full of oil doesn't mean there's not a crack or hole in the block . 99% of the oil in the engine is in the oil pan & wouldn't have ran out because of a crack or hole in the block .
In my opinion the source of that oil leak should be the first thing determined . The oil leak combined with the engine locking up when trying to turn leads me to think that if the leak is found it will answer some questions . Just out of curiosity , how many miles are on this engine ?

 

[JasonJ]

Is it possible to pull of the valve cover by hand? Or will I need some kind of hoist/winch?

Simple hand tools, flat blade screwdriver, 8mm, 10mm socket w/matching ratchet, same size wrenches and about an hour per side for the first timer.

 

[tenpin3000]

The 3.7 V6 engine has two camshafts & has rocker arms but no pushrods . The lobes on the camshafts work the rocker arms which in turn work the valves .
I still think the oil that ran out is the key to this engines problems . Unless a broken timing chain caused an oil leak in the timing chain cover I don't think the timing chain is the main culprit .
The fact that the engine appears to be about full of oil doesn't mean there's not a crack or hole in the block . 99% of the oil in the engine is in the oil pan & wouldn't have ran out because of a crack or hole in the block .
In my opinion the source of that oil leak should be the first thing determined . The oil leak combined with the engine locking up when trying to turn leads me to think that if the leak is found it will answer some questions . Just out of curiosity , how many miles are on this engine ?

It's about 160,000 miles on the vehicle, and according to the original owner the timing belt has never been changed.

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[Conundrum2006]

Unless something breaks (tensioners, guides, stuff like that) the chains themselves are lifetime to the motor.


Is it leaking motor oil?

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[tenpin3000]

Unless something breaks (tensioners, guides, stuff like that) the chains themselves are lifetime to the motor.


Is it leaking motor oil?

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The car is leaking motor oil yes. However the oil level in the engine is full and hasn't been lowering. Please note the only time the car leaks oil is when it it's jacked up or tilted, it's not leaking oil right now.

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[eradicator006]

One thing I don't see mentioned anywhere is which engine the OP has. If it's the 2.4L, I think it does have a timing belt. I did just skim through so maybe I missed it.

 

[Conundrum2006]

Um, yeah find that leak first. That's very unusual. As Logan Savage said the pan could hold enough to show full. Leaking a significant amount of oil is probably at the heart of the problem.
I've had cars that love to leak, never came rolling out of the frame, usually burnt on exhaust coating the underside oil.

Take a flash light and look at the sides of the motor, just about guaranteed you'll find either a hole or something where the oil is coming from.
Unless the chain rub through the timing cover its the block thats probably bad.


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[tenpin3000]

One thing I don't see mentioned anywhere is which engine the OP has. If it's the 2.4L, I think it does have a timing belt. I did just skim through so maybe I missed it.

It's the 3.7L V6

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[tenpin3000]

When you insert the dipstick does it check the oil level in the pan or in the motor?

Um, yeah find that leak first. That's very unusual. As Logan Savage said the pan could hold enough to show full. Leaking a significant amount of oil is probably at the heart of the problem.
I've had cars that love to leak, never came rolling out of the frame, usually burnt on exhaust coating the underside oil.

Take a flash light and look at the sides of the motor, just about guaranteed you'll find either a hole or something where the oil is coming from.
Unless the chain rub through the timing cover its the block thats probably bad.


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[Conundrum2006]

It goes down to the oil pan, which holds almost all the oil in the engine.

The fact oil pours out is alarming. A damaged block comes to mind as the likely source


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[tenpin3000]

So technically the oil level could be showing as full in the oil pan but there's no oil in the motor?

It goes down to the oil pan, which holds almost all the oil in the engine.

The fact oil pours out is alarming. A damaged block comes to mind as the likely source


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[Conundrum2006]

Well. Yes. But that's correct because there oil in the pan, and if the engine could turn over enough the oil pump would pump the oil out the the rest of the motor.

Leaking a lot of oil means there a major hole somewhere. Far as I know the liberties don't have oil coolers so the sources are limited to the motor itself.


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