dude1116
Full Access Member
Definitely not great. I would still replace the gasket. Passenger side is usually the first to go (and you'll kick yourself if it starts leaking in some time).
3.7 oil crud probelm
- Thread starter Conundrum2006
- Start date
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Definitely not great. I would still replace the gasket. Passenger side is usually the first to go (and you'll kick yourself if it starts leaking in some time).
Conundrum2006
Full Access Member
I know you're right. I'm stuck in the mindset of trashing the motor or not. Normally if it makes sense to replace something I do.
Conundrum2006
Full Access Member
OK here are the compression numbers. Whatever I though was wrong with the first test had to be my mistake, all the numbers today were consistent.
Test was cold dry.
Drivers side...........
front--1 180psi
middle--3 185psi
rear--5 190psi
Passenger side............
Front--2 180psi
middle--4 190psi
rear--6 190psi
Test was cold dry.
Drivers side...........
front--1 180psi
middle--3 185psi
rear--5 190psi
Passenger side............
Front--2 180psi
middle--4 190psi
rear--6 190psi
The choices are your's now. That is some gunk.
I would like to see good photos, with both valve covers completely off, in good lighting.
Are all the rockers in place, how much build up is really in there?
Is this a result of coolant contamination as well?
Once the cover's are off, we may be able to do a better assessment from the pics & you then you may need to clean the head areas well.
if so, Lots of shop rags soaked in kerosene, and a good size nylon tooth brush dipped in kerosene and get at er, is what I might start with.
Let's see some new photos!
I would like to see good photos, with both valve covers completely off, in good lighting.
Are all the rockers in place, how much build up is really in there?
Is this a result of coolant contamination as well?
Once the cover's are off, we may be able to do a better assessment from the pics & you then you may need to clean the head areas well.
if so, Lots of shop rags soaked in kerosene, and a good size nylon tooth brush dipped in kerosene and get at er, is what I might start with.
Let's see some new photos!
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uss2defiant
Full Access Member
is this really a DIY job though?
That is a good question Brian.
Hopefully with some new photos, that will help to resolve those questions.
One thing that also now comes to mind is, sticking a inspection camera in the oil pan drain hole and see what grows in there...:icon_lol:
Hopefully with some new photos, that will help to resolve those questions.
One thing that also now comes to mind is, sticking a inspection camera in the oil pan drain hole and see what grows in there...:icon_lol:
Conundrum2006
Full Access Member
I got done what I could today but I had to put the jeep back to running so it could be moved while I'm away. Since I'm working out of town can't leave it in pieces in driveway until next Wednesday.
Problem pulling both valve covers in the commander is the passengers side has a ac line over it and drivers side (the side I worked on) needed a lot more stuff removed to pull it out fully, then there is that stabilizer bar or whatever it is called over the top of the motor. The KJ videos look easier to get all the lines and wires out of the way but mostly the same in some respects.
But i saw what the top end looked like, gunked up but not necessarily a death sentence. Everything that moves has a heavy varnish, oil passages seemed open. Don't see any sign on coolant contamination
Not happy about it, was ready to write it off completely before the cover came off.
probably, maybe, go back to looking at the oil pan, pickup screen, next week. It could be the pickup tube itself is gunked up and breaking lose after the flush and not just the crud and gunk from the top of the motor. Or maybe go back to the top to see if it's even work all the work to get the pan off a 4x4 model.
If I could run it long enough I'd rather let a detergent have a chance to work, but it has so much crud at the bottom of the pan or pickup tube it clogging filters left and right.
Problem pulling both valve covers in the commander is the passengers side has a ac line over it and drivers side (the side I worked on) needed a lot more stuff removed to pull it out fully, then there is that stabilizer bar or whatever it is called over the top of the motor. The KJ videos look easier to get all the lines and wires out of the way but mostly the same in some respects.
But i saw what the top end looked like, gunked up but not necessarily a death sentence. Everything that moves has a heavy varnish, oil passages seemed open. Don't see any sign on coolant contamination
Not happy about it, was ready to write it off completely before the cover came off.
probably, maybe, go back to looking at the oil pan, pickup screen, next week. It could be the pickup tube itself is gunked up and breaking lose after the flush and not just the crud and gunk from the top of the motor. Or maybe go back to the top to see if it's even work all the work to get the pan off a 4x4 model.
If I could run it long enough I'd rather let a detergent have a chance to work, but it has so much crud at the bottom of the pan or pickup tube it clogging filters left and right.
dude1116
Full Access Member
Maybe use some seafoam? :shrug:
CactusJacked
Full Access Member
Eeek, that's bad. That's due to previous owner neglect...using cheap oil and/or not changing it frequently enough.
And, for accurate results, you perform the compression check on a hot engine, not a cold one. Although, that's not why you have crusty crud baked onto the heads.
TwoBobsKJ
Full Access Member
For the record, you can use a 3.7 any Chrysler product from model year 2005 and later - they all use the NGC computer so you would not have to make any changes to the cam sprocket or crank reluctor ring to match the computer. So if you end up swapping motors you have plenty of options. If the engine is from a different model than your Commander you may need to swap out things like the intake and exhaust manifolds, maybe the oil pan, etc. Your accessories like AC, power steering pump, etc. will just bolt up to the new block.
Personally I'd keep trying to cleanse the engine using M38/Bob's kerosene & oil brew to either clean it up or blow it up - harsh but dems da facts. The oil pickup and screen are not easy to replace just by dropping the pan; I'm not familiar with the suspension/frame setup on the Commander but it may be tough to get the oil pan off. If you can get it off with the engine in the Jeep you'll need to remove the windage tray/pan gasket and to remove the pickup from the oil pump. This is what it looks like:
It's not totally apples-to-apples since you have a Commander but this thread should give you some guidance if you end up swapping out your engine.
Bob
Personally I'd keep trying to cleanse the engine using M38/Bob's kerosene & oil brew to either clean it up or blow it up - harsh but dems da facts. The oil pickup and screen are not easy to replace just by dropping the pan; I'm not familiar with the suspension/frame setup on the Commander but it may be tough to get the oil pan off. If you can get it off with the engine in the Jeep you'll need to remove the windage tray/pan gasket and to remove the pickup from the oil pump. This is what it looks like:
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It's not totally apples-to-apples since you have a Commander but this thread should give you some guidance if you end up swapping out your engine.
Bob
Conundrum2006
Full Access Member
As i understand it Seafoam and marvel mystery oil are more a add to the oil and drive kind of solutions. Which might help. I not too familiar with the pro and cons of those type of products. For the cars we own I keep the maintenance up to avoid the gunk issues we've bought into.
I've been told a lot of thing to add to it that I'm afraid of. One local old timer told me to put kerosene in the engine, enough to full the oil pan leave it for a day then drain it but never run it. add fresh oil run for 5 minutes drain, add new oil and filter then change it again in 1000 miles.
I get why but the running kerosene even diluted kind of makes me worry.
As I posted earlier,a kerosine flush with a bit of oil in it is totally harmless. For more lubricity use diesel fuel. Actually, 4 quarts of diesel and a quart of 30wt would probably have as much lubricity as some of the new 0-W motor oil.
Bob
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Bob
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CactusJacked
Full Access Member
Kerosene is a fuel OIL, absolutely nothing wrong with using it as an oil pan soak, and will likely get through what's sitting in the pan. For a short term flush additive, if kerosene makes you nervous, then look up Rislone engine treatment. It's made up of oil, petroleum distillates, and a small fraction of zinc.
Once the puking out of larger amounts of crud has tapered down, change over to a full synthetic oil. This is NOT a one oil is better than the other opinion, but a FACT that synthetic oil does a much better job at loosening and removing built up sludge compared to what conventional oil does/doesn't do.
Once the puking out of larger amounts of crud has tapered down, change over to a full synthetic oil. This is NOT a one oil is better than the other opinion, but a FACT that synthetic oil does a much better job at loosening and removing built up sludge compared to what conventional oil does/doesn't do.
Conundrum2006
Full Access Member
Private sale, So we're SOL. Although they did do a lot of maintenance to the jeep and what I could see in the car fax they changed the oil 4to5k. But we're stuck with what we're stuck with.
Honestly I'd be happier swapping in a rebuild to start fresh but I'll go down this path to see if I can save the motor we got or not.
It's bad. I think the flush dumped 9 years of crud to the oil pan. The stuff still top side look pretty stuck where it was.
I showed a Mechanic i know the pictures he thought it was bad as well but that adding detergent would help clean most of it up over time , meaning many many thousands of miles and frequent oil changes as long as the oil flow wasn't blocked. and if we hadn't dumped all the lose crud into the bottom end. He also said sometimes the pickup tubes become like clogged arteries if I drop the pan just replace everything I can.
Problem I think we have is even if the top end was pristine with new heads the bottom end is severely contaminated .
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Conundrum2006
Full Access Member
Is the gunk motor flush like kerosene? To do this chemically it needs something like kerosene (or kerosene) to dissolve the particles back to liquid.
Conundrum2006
Full Access Member
Thank you! I'll keep it booked marked.
Conundrum2006
Full Access Member
Humm. So maybe do the oil pan soak, or maybe a run with kerosene oil mix first, then drain oil pan soak then the new oil program.
It'd be an interesting experiment anyway, and it give any other 3.7 owners some idea of what might work or not.
It getting more tempting than pulling the oil pan and lifting the motor high enough or lowering the suspension enough to get access to the pan.
CactusJacked
Full Access Member
Yeah, I wouldn't pull the pan. Drain the oil, fill back up with kerosene, and let it set a couple of days if you can. Drain the kerosene, pour in a quart of new oil and let it run right back out, then install drain plug and refill with oil & additive. Would be interesting to see what comes out.
Edit: I'd probably start with the Kerosene soak too.
I've used many things over the years including, Rislone, some old time ATF (don't think the new stuff would be wise) and did the kerosene soak a few times too. They all seemed to help as described above. A couple years ago I had a sludge problem when my daughter drove it about 4 miles a day to and from school (2miles one way). She did this for about a year. Pulled a head cover for a leaking gasket and YIKES!!! Not as bad as yours but pretty bad. Oil changed regularly but short trips messed it up bad. I tried the MMO. 1 quart subbed for a quart of oil at an oil change then short (1-1.5k) OCI. Alternated regular full oil changes on the short OCI with two more with 1 qt MMO and made a world of difference.
Not sure if it will work on yours but just a personal observation. Wouldn't have believed it if I didn't try it myself. MMO will affect viscosity and I'm not really a big fan of "mysterious" things in my oil but nothing to lose here.
I've used many things over the years including, Rislone, some old time ATF (don't think the new stuff would be wise) and did the kerosene soak a few times too. They all seemed to help as described above. A couple years ago I had a sludge problem when my daughter drove it about 4 miles a day to and from school (2miles one way). She did this for about a year. Pulled a head cover for a leaking gasket and YIKES!!! Not as bad as yours but pretty bad. Oil changed regularly but short trips messed it up bad. I tried the MMO. 1 quart subbed for a quart of oil at an oil change then short (1-1.5k) OCI. Alternated regular full oil changes on the short OCI with two more with 1 qt MMO and made a world of difference.
Not sure if it will work on yours but just a personal observation. Wouldn't have believed it if I didn't try it myself. MMO will affect viscosity and I'm not really a big fan of "mysterious" things in my oil but nothing to lose here.
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