Troubleshooting exercise #1

[Johnny O]

This should be fun. Will also help folks out in learning Liberty electronics.
Gurus please withhold answers to let the less experienced have a chance!

Can you troubleshoot this problem from this photo? Jeep is on and at idle. I’m not wearing a seatbelt.

(I already know and have replacement parts- no worries!)

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[lfhoward]

Wheel speed sensor. If rusted to oblivion, a new wheel bearing assembly is the fix.

Or, it is frayed and grounded out wiring on the way to a wheel speed sensor.

Don’t think I am a guru at Jeep electronics — but I saw an Eric O. South Main Auto video at one point where the magnetic ring in the wheel bearing had rusted out, and it caused symptoms like this.

 

[tommudd]

Sitting on my hands trying not to type LOL

 

[Johnny O]

Sitting on my hands trying not to type LOL

Me too! Mostly because the answer is in a previous post of mine...

 

[lfhoward]

Me too! Mostly because the answer is in a previous post of mine...

Shoot! I don’t remember a wheel bearing in a previous post!!!

 

[Johnny O]

Just bumping this up again as from what I have read this is a fairly common problem in vehicles equipped with the circuit.
I'll add a hint:
This happened when I replaced worn out lower ball joints that had been installed so one couldn't get to the zerk fittings...

 

[Steve777]

Assuming those lites stay on (and it's not just you caught them as they first flash at startup), I'd agree it is likely a wheel speed sensor or wiring. The '06s were somewhat know for breaks in the speed sensor wiring to the rear wheels, so I'd check for that first. Of course it could also be a bad sensor, connector or tone ring.

If you go someplace with a good code reader (autozone), you should be able to pull the ABS codes which will tell you which wheel(s) are having problems. Helps to narrow your search.

 

[Johnny O]

Assuming those lites stay on (and it's not just you caught them as they first flash at startup), I'd agree it is likely a wheel speed sensor or wiring. The '06s were somewhat know for breaks in the speed sensor wiring to the rear wheels, so I'd check for that first. Of course it could also be a bad sensor, connector or tone ring.

If you go someplace with a good code reader (autozone), you should be able to pull the ABS codes which will tell you which wheel(s) are having problems. Helps to narrow your search.

You are correct.

No codes needed. I managed to break both sensors off when installing greasable moog lower ball joints. (And a lift)

I already have replacements, however I’m waiting on a few other parts and a break in the weather before I install them. This Jeep is parked as a result.

 

[Johnny O]

Soooo… had time today to replace both sensors. Rest the system and fanged if the lights came back on.
Pulled both sensors back out to make sure wasn’t rust or something on the Hall effect sensors and codes reset. Went to fill the tank before the storm and bam, they came back on.

I’m stumped.
Ideas?

 

[tommudd]

Soooo… had time today to replace both sensors. Rest the system and fanged if the lights came back on.
Pulled both sensors back out to make sure wasn’t rust or something on the Hall effect sensors and codes reset. Went to fill the tank before the storm and bam, they came back on.

I’m stumped.
Ideas?

Did you try unhooking both battery cables, tying them together for 1/2 hour or so. Then reinstall them and take it out for a hard run.

 

[jfitz93]

Having this exact issue right now. Just picked up a 2006 KJ a few weeks ago. Drives like a dream, not a spot of rust. But I have all three lights on (ESP/BAS, ABS, and TC) but I bought it this way, figured I could diagnose at home…and here we are. Lights come on at startup, and stay on for the entirety of the drive. No issue with drivability at all. I have been troubleshooting for the last few weeks.

I can turn a wrench, but I’m green as can be when it comes to electronics. But I figured if someone can do it, I can to.

Symptoms I have with the lights on:
-No traction Control
-ABS system offline
-ESP system offline
-No cruise control
-speedometer is ~5mph off

Codes I’m getting (scanned from a somewhat decent OBD scanner from O’Rielys):
-C102B (Jeep ABS) “Right Rear Wheel Speed Sensor Circuit”
-U1418 (PCM/ECM) “Implausible Right Wheel Distance Signal Received”
-C2102 (Steering Angle Sensor) “System Low Voltage”

Here’s what I’ve done so far myself:
-Replaced both Rear Speed Sensors
-Spliced new connector on right rear speed sensor

The new connector was tonight. I looked at the wiring the best I could from the right rear sensor but didn’t see any breaks or frays, so I figured it might be the connector. Unless my splice was bad, the connector didn’t seem to be the issue either.

Maybe I’ll try the Steering angle sensor next? I haven’t thrown too much money at diagnosing yet, but a ton of time invested in research and repair. Becoming frustrating, but I’m determined to keep it out of a dealership’s pricey little hands as much as I can.

Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Johnny O]

Having this exact issue right now. Just picked up a 2006 KJ a few weeks ago. Drives like a dream, not a spot of rust. But I have all three lights on (ESP/BAS, ABS, and TC) but I bought it this way, figured I could diagnose at home…and here we are. Lights come on at startup, and stay on for the entirety of the drive. No issue with drivability at all. I have been troubleshooting for the last few weeks.

I can turn a wrench, but I’m green as can be when it comes to electronics. But I figured if someone can do it, I can to.

Symptoms I have with the lights on:
-No traction Control
-ABS system offline
-ESP system offline
-No cruise control
-speedometer is ~5mph off

Codes I’m getting (scanned from a somewhat decent OBD scanner from O’Rielys):
-C102B (Jeep ABS) “Right Rear Wheel Speed Sensor Circuit”
-U1418 (PCM/ECM) “Implausible Right Wheel Distance Signal Received”
-C2102 (Steering Angle Sensor) “System Low Voltage”

Here’s what I’ve done so far myself:
-Replaced both Rear Speed Sensors
-Spliced new connector on right rear speed sensor

The new connector was tonight. I looked at the wiring the best I could from the right rear sensor but didn’t see any breaks or frays, so I figured it might be the connector. Unless my splice was bad, the connector didn’t seem to be the issue either.

Maybe I’ll try the Steering angle sensor next? I haven’t thrown too much money at diagnosing yet, but a ton of time invested in research and repair. Becoming frustrating, but I’m determined to keep it out of a dealership’s pricey little hands as much as I can.

Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.

From your symptoms, I’d pull that sensor and see if you have some bits sticking to it. These are magnetic Hall effect type sensors and a simple rust flake can do some interesting things.
Also, @Billwill can hopefully chime in too!

 

[jfitz93]

From your symptoms, I’d pull that sensor and see if you have some bits sticking to it. These are magnetic Hall effect type sensors and a simple rust flake can do some interesting things.
Also, @Billwill can hopefully chime in too!

Appreciate the response!

You mean pull out the wheel speed sensor again? They are brand new, I installed last Friday. I actually did pull the right rear out again last night as I was changing the connector, but everything looked ok. Just a little dusty if anything. I’ll pull them back out again though definitely, what should I be looking for?

 

[Johnny O]

Appreciate the response!

You mean pull out the wheel speed sensor again? They are brand new, I installed last Friday. I actually did pull the right rear out again last night as I was changing the connector, but everything looked ok. Just a little dusty if anything. I’ll pull them back out again though definitely, what should I be looking for?

Flakes of rust stuck to them, etc. also look for metal flakes in the wheel bearing grease.

 

[jfitz93]

Af

Flakes of rust stuck to them, etc. also look for metal flakes in the wheel bearing grease.

Didn’t see any rust or other debris on the sensors or around the bearing grease, from what I could tell. Been watching a ton more videos and reading through dozens of forums and I’m starting to lean towards a damaged or inoperable tone ring on the rear side. Unfortunately the rear does not have separate hub assemblies so it’s looking like I’ll have to take it to the shop for wheel bearing replacements to see if some new tone rings will solve the issue. My father in law works heavy equipment in his shop, and I would try myself but pressing the bearings in is a bit out of my league.

 

[Johnny O]

Af

Didn’t see any rust or other debris on the sensors or around the bearing grease, from what I could tell. Been watching a ton more videos and reading through dozens of forums and I’m starting to lean towards a damaged or inoperable tone ring on the rear side. Unfortunately the rear does not have separate hub assemblies so it’s looking like I’ll have to take it to the shop for wheel bearing replacements to see if some new tone rings will solve the issue. My father in law works heavy equipment in his shop, and I would try myself but pressing the bearings in is a bit out of my league.

There’s another test you can do. Measure the voltage on your battery. Turns out new sensors don’t like well used batteries (or as I discovered this morning, brand new, but faulty batteries).

 

[jfitz93]

There’s another test you can do. Measure the voltage on your battery. Turns out new sensors don’t like well used batteries (or as I discovered this morning, brand new, but faulty batteries).

Something simple like the battery can be easy to overlook. I’ll check it out. Thx @LabRat. I’ll keep you posted.

 

[timg]

Having this exact issue right now. Just picked up a 2006 KJ a few weeks ago. Drives like a dream, not a spot of rust. But I have all three lights on (ESP/BAS, ABS, and TC) but I bought it this way, figured I could diagnose at home…and here we are. Lights come on at startup, and stay on for the entirety of the drive. No issue with drivability at all. I have been troubleshooting for the last few weeks.

I can turn a wrench, but I’m green as can be when it comes to electronics. But I figured if someone can do it, I can to.

Symptoms I have with the lights on:
-No traction Control
-ABS system offline
-ESP system offline
-No cruise control
-speedometer is ~5mph off

Codes I’m getting (scanned from a somewhat decent OBD scanner from O’Rielys):
-C102B (Jeep ABS) “Right Rear Wheel Speed Sensor Circuit”
-U1418 (PCM/ECM) “Implausible Right Wheel Distance Signal Received”
-C2102 (Steering Angle Sensor) “System Low Voltage”

Here’s what I’ve done so far myself:
-Replaced both Rear Speed Sensors
-Spliced new connector on right rear speed sensor

The new connector was tonight. I looked at the wiring the best I could from the right rear sensor but didn’t see any breaks or frays, so I figured it might be the connector. Unless my splice was bad, the connector didn’t seem to be the issue either.

Maybe I’ll try the Steering angle sensor next? I haven’t thrown too much money at diagnosing yet, but a ton of time invested in research and repair. Becoming frustrating, but I’m determined to keep it out of a dealership’s pricey little hands as much as I can.

Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you're getting ESP/traction control lights and it's not your wheel sensors, then you probably have a bad clock spring (i.e. Steering Angle Sensor). If the system can't measure the angle of the front wheels it will disable the system and throw the lights.

If you can find a new one, expect to pay about $700. If you are low on money and adventurous, then buy a very cheap one off ebay (which is likely also bad or about to be), take it apart, and replace the ribbon wires in there with new ones from amazon. I've read some online content about doing that (not liberty specific), but I never tried it.

Or do what I did and watch ebay for three years until someone posts a NOS one for $200.

 

[Johnny O]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you're getting ESP/traction control lights and it's not your wheel sensors, then you probably have a bad clock spring (i.e. Steering Angle Sensor). If the system can't measure the angle of the front wheels it will disable the system and throw the lights.

If you can find a new one, expect to pay about $700. If you are low on money and adventurous, then buy a very cheap one off ebay (which is likely also bad or about to be), take it apart, and replace the ribbon wires in there with new ones from amazon. I've read some online content about doing that (not liberty specific), but I never tried it.

Or do what I did and watch ebay for three years until someone posts a NOS one for $200.

It was in fact the wheel sensors. Broke both fronts putting the lift in.

 

[timg]

Whew, thats good news eh?