R134a at Walmart

[retmil46]

In case anyone wants to stock up, just went by one of the Walmarts here in San Antonio, and they have it on sale for $9.27 for a 340 gram can - sticker on the CRD lists the charge as 0.649 kg - 649 grams - so 2 cans should be enough for a full recharge if necessary.

Auto parts stores have jumped up to as much as $20 a can - Europe is trying to phase out R134 and word is Dupont has drastically cut back production - thus the sharp price increase.

Funny how they happen to ban these refrigerants one after the other as being "bad for the environment", just as Dupont's patents are getting ready to run out.:icon_twisted:

 

[tjkj2002]

To bad when they state 340grams you will actually only get 280-300 grams at most useable.Not to mention if you need to add you got a leak which means non-condensables are in the system and it will never work right until it's fixed and serviced correctly.

 

[flman]

To bad when they state 340grams you will actually only get 280-300 grams at most useable.Not to mention if you need to add you got a leak which means non-condensables are in the system and it will never work right until it's fixed and serviced correctly.

I buy the 30 Lb cylinders of R134A.

TJ Nice sig arty52:

 

[Sirthor1881]

I am sure those 30lbs bottles have gone up since I last purchased them a few years ago..

 

[retmil46]

I am sure those 30lbs bottles have gone up since I last purchased them a few years ago..

Yep, last I checked a couple weeks ago, a 30 lb bottle at O'reilly's would run you over $300. A 340 gram "standard" size can was $18 to $20.

Word I've gotten is that the European Union is banning R134 effective this year. It's replacement has already been approved by the EU, and by the EPA back in April - 1234YF - and GM is going to start using this for the 2013 model year.

But a few small problems with 1234YF - it's flammable, and it's toxic to humans. Also, it contains hydrogen fluoride - which when combined with water produces hydrofluoric acid.

Some first responder and safety organizations in Europe, notably in Germany, are strongly protesting this move over safety reasons. Conceivably, even a minor accident which caused the A/C system to spring a leak could cause the vehicle to catch on fire and turned into a rolling toxic waste dump - not to mention the chance that the occupants and/or first responders would get exposed to this stuff.

Back in my Navy days operating submarine nuke power plants, one of the inside jokes was "a few must die for the continued safe operation of naval nuclear power".:happy175:

Sounds as if someone in the EPA has decided that it isn't a joke, and it' s alright if some people get injured or even killed from use of this refrigerant, as long as it's for the good of the environment.:shrug:

 

[flman]

Sounds as if someone in the EPA has decided that it isn't a joke, and it' s alright if some people get injured or even killed from use of this refrigerant, as long as it's for the good of the environment.:shrug:

We have one sick bunch of Commies running this country, and running it into the ground at that. :favorites68:

 

[tjkj2002]

Yep, last I checked a couple weeks ago, a 30 lb bottle at O'reilly's would run you over $300. A 340 gram "standard" size can was $18 to $20.

Word I've gotten is that the European Union is banning R134 effective this year. It's replacement has already been approved by the EU, and by the EPA back in April - 1234YF - and GM is going to start using this for the 2013 model year.

But a few small problems with 1234YF - it's flammable, and it's toxic to humans. Also, it contains hydrogen fluoride - which when combined with water produces hydrofluoric acid.

Some first responder and safety organizations in Europe, notably in Germany, are strongly protesting this move over safety reasons. Conceivably, even a minor accident which caused the A/C system to spring a leak could cause the vehicle to catch on fire and turned into a rolling toxic waste dump - not to mention the chance that the occupants and/or first responders would get exposed to this stuff.

Back in my Navy days operating submarine nuke power plants, one of the inside jokes was "a few must die for the continued safe operation of naval nuclear power".:happy175:

Sounds as if someone in the EPA has decided that it isn't a joke, and it' s alright if some people get injured or even killed from use of this refrigerant, as long as it's for the good of the environment.:shrug:

Yeah I heard about that crap.It will require 2 purge valves,one on the high side and one on the lowside to purge it in a accident.Just another very costly part to have to replace.Don't smoke inside the vehicle,it would be a hot time in the town if your evap started leaking:flamethrower:.


Funny thing is BMW and Volvo was fighting that stuff for years,guess they lost the battle.

 

[Dave]

Shoulda just kept the freon. The 134a that replaced it was supposed to be better for the environment. Sounds like the 1234YF is worse than freon and 134a.

Dave

 

[OneOneNiner]

To bad when they state 340grams you will actually only get 280-300 grams at most useable.Not to mention if you need to add you got a leak which means non-condensables are in the system and it will never work right until it's fixed and serviced correctly.

This might be true but it doesn't sound logical.
As long as there is freon in the system(positive pressure) then it shouldn't pull a vacuum(contaminates and air).

no?

 

[flman]

Shoulda just kept the freon. The 134a that replaced it was supposed to be better for the environment. Sounds like the 1234YF is worse than freon and 134a.

Dave

Well I use the 134A for refrigeration, I have not heard of any phase out in that side of the industry as of yet?

 

[flman]

This might be true but it doesn't sound logical.
As long as there is freon in the system(positive pressure) then it shouldn't pull a vacuum(contaminates and air).

no?

If it pumps too low and goes into a vacuum it will pull in air and moisture. Back in the good old days of R12 you had a TXV and a site glass and you could easily top these off. With R134A and fixed orifice you have a critically charged system, with the variable speed of the compressor there is no good way to get the charge right. The best way is to start with an empty vacuumed system and weigh in a new charge. Other wise you are going to suffer with poor cooling performance.

 

[retmil46]

If it pumps too low and goes into a vacuum it will pull in air and moisture. Back in the good old days of R12 you had a TXV and a site glass and you could easily top these off. With R134A and fixed orifice you have a critically charged system, with the variable speed of the compressor there is no good way to get the charge right. The best way is to start with an empty vacuumed system and weigh in a new charge. Other wise you are going to suffer with poor cooling performance.

Only real way to get an accurate read and charge on today's R134 systems is to use a set of manifold gauges that read both the high and low pressure side, and perform the test as described in the service manual.

Those cans you can buy at the auto parts stores, with the el-cheapo built-in low side pressure gauge, are effin worthless - you can't judge whether or not you have a proper charge just from the low pressure reading with the A/C system shut off - their "green" area will tell you you have plenty of charge when in fact you're low, or their "red" area will tell you you're overcharged when you actually have a proper charge in the system.

Instead, if you're going to check it yourself, spend your money on a decent set of manifold gauges - which should come with all the attachments for adding refrigerant if necessary, allowing you to buy the plain-jane "cheap" cans of refrigerant minus the useless gauge - and perform the test as per the service manual BEFORE you try making any changes.

 

[flman]

Instead, if you're going to check it yourself, spend your money on a decent set of manifold gauges - which should come with all the attachments for adding refrigerant if necessary, allowing you to buy the plain-jane "cheap" cans of refrigerant minus the useless gauge - and perform the test as per the service manual BEFORE you try making any changes.

Uhh, yeah been doing refrigeration for 27 years, never owned a cheap manifold yet. :emotions34:

 

[tulsa]

About two years back I could get 12 cans of 134a for about $36. Did the feds place a tax on 134a? Any reports on the healing of the ozone hole freon was supposed to be causing?

 

[flman]

Any reports on the healing of the ozone hole freon was supposed to be causing?

:evillol: It was all about Duponts patents expiring, taxes, and regulation, nothing to do with the environment, that part is imaginary.