oil pan leaking

[southernwake]

When I was changing the oil on my wife's libby I noticed that there was some blow by oil residue on the bottom of the oil pan and transmission bell housing. So I inspected and found the culprit I believe. On the rear driver's side of the oil pan I see that it is wet up at the top where it mounts to the bottom of the engine. So I think the gasket is bad and it is leaking when we are driving it. There are no drip spots in the driveway when it sits overnight. But I am losing a little less than 1/2qt every 2500 miles or so.

I am going to try and get it changed out here as soon as I can, hopefully this weekend if everything works out. I figured while I was doing this I would go ahead and change the motor mounts since they will have to be unbolted anyways to give me enough clearance to lift the motor up. Anything else you guys would recommend to go ahead and and change or look at while I have that pan unbuttoned?

Thanks
Andrew

 

[JavelinAMX]

might sound strange but check the pan itself for any rust, or maybe just put a new pan and gasket on just for extra insurance/don't have to do it twice.

 

[southernwake]

Good idea! I have thought about that too cause it was originally a PA car and while it was taken care of has hardly any rust (underneath was far more rust free than I expected when I looked at it when I bought it) I doubt that part of the engine was getting washed free of rust.

Definitely cheap insurance to just buy a new one.

 

[JavelinAMX]

yeah I don't know how common it is, but before I got my jeep the story is a rusty oil pan was the culprit for the original engine to fail.

 

[dude1116]

I believe that pan won't come out without lifting the engine. But I could be wrong.

 

[teeje]

Check your valve covers. Let the jeep sit over night and take a clean paper towel and run along the bottom


2002 Jeep Liberty 3.7L with brand new engine
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[Conundrum2006]

Um, assuming it's a 3.7 I would literally check every other seal before pulling the pan. It's not like a Cherokee where it could be removed relatively easily.

If it is a pan leak I would plan to replace the pan just as a precaution. For some reason a lot of those pans rust.

My experience removing two 3.7 pans (one from a 2012 replacement and one from the old 2006 motor) it was a pain to get the pans off and this was on engines out of the vehicle.
The pan gasket bolts to the engine, but doesn't separate easily from the pan. When it comes lose it only moves a fraction because the gasket is attached to the block.

From what I've read there are two ways to get the pan in a liberty, easiest may be pull the motor. The second way which I'm not too sure of evolves lifting the vehicle up and dropping the suspension maybe engine support as well to get room.

IMO avoid dropping the pan unless you have to.


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[southernwake]

I dont see any other leaks anywhere except from the pan/ engine where they join. I will go through and do another check, its just that side of the pan was wet with blowby and I am not smelling burnt oil as if the valve cover was leaking onto the exhaust manifold. I plan on researching some more as far as removing it. My plan is if I do remove it I will replace the pan as well just to be safe. No need in doing it twice if I dont have to.

Would anyone recommending replacing the oil pump pickup tube/ screen? I know sometimes its recommended and others its just best to leave it. Worth replacing the oil pump at this time just as a precaution? or just leave it be?

 

[southernwake]

After doing some quick research I am going to check a few other possible leak places just to make sure. I would be highly pissed if I did all that work and it wasnt that. Definitely not as easy as I was hoping. Im used to just being able to unbolt the motor mounts and lift the engine and unbolt and remove. This requires the right touch and a piece of your soul to come out apparently.

I read the oil pan gasket is designed to be reused as it is molded rubber, so long as the gasket isnt torn or damaged. With that being the case I am also going to check and make sure all the bolts are tight as well. Maybe a few loosened up and are creating enough of a gap to allow blow by.

 

[ltd02]

Might check the front crank seal and the oil pressure sending unit while you are at it.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Two things:

1) My dollar and a donut says that the pan and gasket are fine but your front main seal is leaking.

The front main seal is a weak one - and the design of the oil pan catches the oil that drips out of the seal and it runs along the top of the pan (if you look at it you'll see the "shelf" on top of the pan that catches the oil.) The front main seal is a far easier replacement than the oil pan and/or gasket. Which leads me to...

2) As dude1116 and Conundrum2006 have stated, the oil pan and gasket are very difficult to remove with the engine in the Jeep - and even a pain when the engine is out.

The gasket and windage tray are one unit and are held in place by 4 bolts - two that hold the windage tray and pickup tube frame and two that hold the pickup tube in place on the oil pump. So the gasket can't be removed without removing those bolts and the pickup tube - and there isn't enough room between the engine and the front crossmember to slide the pan over the pickup and out of the Jeep, certainly in a 4WD Liberty. In a 2WD it will be only slightly easier but still a pain.

Here's what the gasket/windage tray looks like. You can see the pickup tube and the bolts that hold it and the gasket in place:

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The reality is the oil pan gaskets in these engines don't leak - but the pans do rust which is maddening. So check the front main seal first - it's a $5 part and if you were planning on replacing the pan gasket the front main seal replacement will be a walk in the park.

You can buy me a cup of coffee later for saving you hours of agony :waytogo: :gr_grin:

Bob

 

[southernwake]

Yeah through my research I am seeing that the gaskets are pretty resilient. So I think I can rule out the gasket. Thanks for the idea about the front main seal I woukdnt have thought about that.

My plan is to check the the oil pan bolts and make sure they are all tightened up first and foremost. Then after doing that I am going to check and look and see if the front seal is leaking. From my quick glance I did a few weeks ago when I was changing the oil I noticed that the oil looked like it was coming out of the pan about the last 1/3 section of the pan,( referenced in the pic) right around the where the pan sump starts. Which isnt to say that the oil isnt running along the top of the engine til that point and then getting blown away.

I am just not seeing any oil drips on the ground when the jeep is parked overnight. So it has to be a tiny leak. It looks like just mostly blow by.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Yep, the area you highlighted is exactly where the oil wetness shows up - but there isn't enough to cause spots on the driveway.

My front main seal has been leaking on mine for about 10,000 miles and I rarely see drips in the garage - and I don't notice any loss of oil between changes so there isn't that much. But I DO see blow by on the bottom of the engine skid plate (it's a 4X Guard plate that is powder coated silver and smooth on the bottom so I can see the misty oil blow-by.)

Frustrating thing is it's tough to see the bottom of the timing cover to see the leak from the seal. The harmonic balancer, front crossmember and steering rack all do a good job blocking the view.

Bob

 

[southernwake]

I decided to change the oil a little ahead of schedule this weekend and so I could also get under it and look in better length at the leak issue. I have attached some pics of what I found and where the wetness is. It seems to be on both sides.

I also decided to grab a 10mm socket and give all the bolts I could easily access a tightness check. I think I found 1 that didnt move. The others ones moved between 1/8-1/4 turn with one moving as much as 1/2 a turn til it was snug.

I would like to tighten the ones up under the craddle that mounts to the engine and lower half of the ****** bell housing. Can this just simply be removed or is it more involved than that? I wanted to check before I started taking it off and found out it required a gasket or something. I would like to check the tightness of those 4-5 rear pan bolts as well.

Thanks
Andrew

 

[southernwake]

one more

 

[southernwake]

So with oil on both sides if the pan where it shown in the pics still looks like it is potentially still the front main seal? I will get one ordered and hopefully can get that changed out. Has anyone here done a write up on how to do it ( easiest way more importantly)?

Thanks,
Andrew