New but in Need Please (Electrical or Draw)

[kchawda]

Hello y’all,

I have a maddening issue currently and this seems like the place to find direction.

1st – 05 Liberty 3.7 2WD – 189,000 miles

When even I travel over 70 for extended amounts of time the engine light comes on. After 3-5 starts through the light goes out (A lot of traveling in it – get off highway get gas, get a bite to eat, visit a local attraction – light out). The vehicle never did anything crazy or out of the ordinary (I would know – I’ve had it since it had 13 miles). Last week I noticed a rattle that went away when I hit the gas until the vehicle warmed up a little (1-3 minutes). Also in the evenings when starting it there was a high pitched whirl for a moment or two.

Battery is newish (6 months) – tested good recently
Alternator is good – bench tested and tested on vehicle
Swapped around all the fuses (40 amps) related to ignition or starting.

The car is dead as possible in the mornings now. It has to sit on jumper cables for 10+ minutes. I feel as though there is something loose but visually checking and pushing/pulling has netted nothing. Any common themes you all have experienced? I currently do not have a tester, but certainly will get one if need be. I saw the advice on removing the negative cable and hooking up the positive and check to verify there is anything showing when it shouldn’t be. It seems the cigarette lighter/charger port is common, but would not line up with other existing possible symptoms.

I promise I will not be a ask-hole and will act on the feedback!

 

[uss2defiant]

what are the CEL codes?
how you checked the wiring?

 

[renegade 04]

The codes are related to low voltage. I would try replacing the ignition switch. It costs about 25 dollars and takes only 5 minutes to replace.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Is this kind of like the issue you have?
LOST JEEPS • View topic - Broke down and out

No idea if this will help, but maybe it'll lead to something. Where in FL are you? I used to live outside Tampa, Lutz to be exact. Got my KJ there.

 

[Billwill]

What are the codes exactly?

You need to purchase a digital Multi-meter...nothing fancy required...a simple Chinese one will be accurate for your needs.

With the meter set to DC volts, place the leads across the battery terminals.
With the engine OFF you should read about 12.5 volts.
When turning the engine over the voltage should not drop below about 10 volts.
At idle the reading should be about 13.5 volts.

With the meter still set to DC volts...plug it into the front cigar lighter/aux power point so you can keep an eye on the voltage while you are driving....when the CEL light comes ON check if you still have around 12-13 volts showing....not much less and not much more!

To check current draw overnight.....set the Multimeter to DC Amps....you will need to move the Red meter lead to the AMP position while the Black lead stays on the common position, disconnect the negative battery lead and place the meter in series with the disconnected negative battery lead and the negative post on the battery...does not matter which way the meter is connected....digital meters will work fine but show a minus sign (-) on the meter display if the wrong way around. Do not try to start the Jeep...you will blow the fuse inside your meter!

With the radio turned OFF, all lights turned OFF and the doors closed you must get an Amp reading of less than 30 mA ie. less than 0.03 A...if it is much greater than this then pull out each fuse one at a time and check which fuse is carrying the large current...this means the fuses under the hood and inside the cabin.

If pulling out the fuses does not drop the large draw of current...disconnect the thick cable coming off the alternator....you may have a shorted-out diode in the Alternator causing current to flow backwards into the Alternator.

Once you know which fuse is carrying the large current draw we can look into the circuit diagrams!

 

[kchawda]

Thank you for the quick responses. Currently there are no codes set nor stored. I am hesitant to take it on the required drive to set the light. The link to lostjeeps sounds like the issue I had when the battery was replaced a few months back. I am in the panhandle, but moved from Lake Lanier area in Ga. I will be multimetering it later this afternoon and with post what I come up with.


Thank you all again for the help in the right direction.

 

[renegade 04]

I would start by replacing the ignition switch, the reason I say that is that liberties seem to have problems with the ignition switch causing a battery drain.

 

[kchawda]

The switch was replaced about a year ago (not the whole assembly, but the internal tumbler only). I think I narrowed it down to the negative cable. I went stupid simple and cleaned and tightened the negative terminal after the vehicle sat all day and it fired right up. Later that night it was clicking at start up again. I changed the terminal end, but still not starting any better. Its obvious at this point something is loose, not necessarily a draw though.

 

[JasonJ]

...Its obvious at this point something is loose, not necessarily a draw though.

Loose connections can CAUSE excessive current draw. So don't rule that out.

I would do everything Billwill stated.. that is solid troubleshooting advice. And if the MIL does come on, as soon as possible get the codes read and written down. Then report back here.

If something is draining your battery overnight, Bill's amp draw procedure will indicate that... if that shows nothing, then I'd reconnect the meter to check battery voltage again and watch voltage over time... it may be that the battery is not holding a charge (regardless of what any previous tests have shown)!

 

[renegade 04]

If I were you I would take an amp meter and measure the current draw when the jeep is off.

 

[Billwill]

The switch was replaced about a year ago (not the whole assembly, but the internal tumbler only). I think I narrowed it down to the negative cable. I went stupid simple and cleaned and tightened the negative terminal after the vehicle sat all day and it fired right up. Later that night it was clicking at start up again. I changed the terminal end, but still not starting any better. Its obvious at this point something is loose, not necessarily a draw though.

It is possible that something is loose or has a bad connection.

Check that both battery connections are clean and tight.
Check that the Negative battery lead going to the chassis is clean and tight both ends.
Check that the Grounding Strap that grounds the engine to chassis is clean and tight both ends.
Check that the connections on the Starter are clean and tight.
Check that the connections on the Alternator...large and small...are clean and tight.

And of course have the battery and alternator tested!

 

[kchawda]

Sorry for the delay. I am currently going through using a multimeter for dummies. I will have the testing information very soon.


While I have it on 10A and I first put it on (positive to the terminal end - disconnected, and negative to the terminal at the battery) it runs up to 2.8 but quickly drops to .11. So either I am doing it wrong or there is not a draw - right?

^Wrong

I went with still go through the motions for practice sake - and found taking out F7 under hood fuse (JB Power) drops me to .03. I did a quick google search on the phone to no avail. While be tracking down that soon (most quick trends said it powers something inside).

Now were cooking with gas.

I could not find the affected interior fuses, so I went onward and upward with my new found talents and test each interior fuse. Removing #34 Body control module / interior lights etc. drops me down to .03 - where I think I'm suppose to be. In addition if I take out #33 (SKIM Control) its drops it down to 0.00.

My question is where do we go from here?

 

[renegade 04]

It sounds like you need a new ignition switch. That was the fuse that I found was draining the battery on my libby and it turned out to be the ignition switch.

 

[kchawda]

I will look into it. In theory if I swap out the ignition switch ($17 bucks at local parts house), put fuse back in I should still see .03.

As a final update for tonight (hopefully) I pulled the fuse (#34) and jumped the vehicle - drove for 40 minutes - came back shut the car down and it would not start back up. Rechecked for the draw and still showing .03 (though now it drops to 0.00 after a few seconds).

 

[Billwill]

I will look into it. In theory if I swap out the ignition switch ($17 bucks at local parts house), put fuse back in I should still see .03.

As a final update for tonight (hopefully) I pulled the fuse (#34) and jumped the vehicle - drove for 40 minutes - came back shut the car down and it would not start back up. Rechecked for the draw and still showing .03 (though now it drops to 0.00 after a few seconds).

What year/model is your KJ?...I need to see the correct wiring diagram to see where fuse #7 goes...I know it goes to the internal fuse panel where it splits up to go to various places but that is year/model dependant!

Do you by chance have a non OEM Trailer Package installed?

When you say the Jeep will not start back up do you mean it will not turn over or does it turn over but not fire.

What voltage are you reading across the battery at power OFF and while running? If the battery has gone flat then you will read zero amps...you need voltage to be able to draw amps. Remember to put the Red lead of your meter back to the AC/DC voltage plug position and set meter to DC volts while reading these voltages!

You are doing the Amperage testing correctly.....0.03 is OK ie. 30 mA....just bear in mind that if you are busy inside pulling interior fuses out then you probably have one of the doors open so the interior lights may be trying to light up.

I would advise that you fit your meter to the cigar lighter/aux power point up front and with the meter set to DC volts keep an eye on what the voltage is showing while you are driving.

 

[kchawda]

05 Liberty 2wd no trailer package.
Once I shut it off it was the rapid fire clicks when I tried to start it back up.
The cheapo meter I bought does not have a cigar lighter port on it unfortunately.
I make sure to switch the latch down to make the Jeep think the door is closed, otherwise it jumps up around 3.7-3.8.

 

[Billwill]

05 Liberty 2wd no trailer package.
Once I shut it off it was the rapid fire clicks when I tried to start it back up.
The cheapo meter I bought does not have a cigar lighter port on it unfortunately.
I make sure to switch the latch down to make the Jeep think the door is closed, otherwise it jumps up around 3.7-3.8.

What I meant was that you get some form of male connector to plug into the cigar lighter/aux power slot on the front dash...some thing like the cord you get to charge your Cellphone in the vehicle. Then cut the ends off and connect them to your Red and Black meter leads and with the meter set to DC volts you can monitor the battery voltage while driving. You sure you get about 13.5 volts across the battery terminals while the engine is at idle?

When you get the rapid fire clicks....what is the voltage across the battery terminals?

OK the fuse # 7 that you pull out of the Power Distribution Center (PDC) under the hood that seems to have the most current draw feeds the inside Fuse Panel (Junction Block) where it splits up over three fuses namely 30,11, 12 and 34. So if you get to the situation again where pulling out your fuse #7 from the PDC drops the amp draw down nicely....put that fuse back and one by one pull out fuses 30, 11, 12 and 30 from the inside fuse panel to see which one has the most effect on the current draw.

Do you have to put the battery on an overnight trickle charger to be able to get going again the next day?

 

[kchawda]

#34 is the problem inside the car.

I am just jumping it off each morning.

Any help on seeing what #34 interior fuse affect? wiring diargrams flew slightly over my head. I believe it is radio, dome lights, tag light, locks and power mirrors, tailgate - what else

sitting measures 12.8
Key on measures 10.4
Key turned (rapid clicking) drops to 9.5

 

[kchawda]

I did switch out the ignition switch but that had no impact.

I am confused because last night I took out #34 thus removing the draw before driving for 40 minutes and did not put it back in until I switched the switch - verified .03 overnight. Why would the battery be dead the next morning?

Verified it holds at 14 while in operation (regardless of idle or moving) slight drop when I first stop at a light.

Holds over 12 until I turn the key then drops to 10.4 - but builds up when the key is not turned. edit: anything I do drops to 10 (IE press unlock on the factory remote, open any door etc.).

Thank you all for your assistance - for those keeping score Liberty 19 me 2. Ignition switch is ruled out as is the tailgate (disconnected all electrical to the tailgate still had the draw).

 

[renegade 04]

I would recommend disconnecting the battery when you are not using the jeep to keep the battery from dying. If I were you I would look in the factory service manual to see what the fuses powers.