Ignition problem

[blackhawk]

Hi guys,

I have read all related to an ignition problem faced since 6 months ago.

Well, I checked and replaced by myself three important things:

- Ignition switch (in apparent good order) Replaced
- Ignition actuator (in aparent good order) replaced
- Starter solenoid (in apparent good order) replaced
- Starter Relays and fuse checked

What's my problem?

I can drive and turn off, turn on without any problem. However, around 2-4 times per week I am unable to start the engine (it may happen in the morning at first warm up or after a short trip). There's not crank noise from starter, however, if I jumper the starter relay from terminal 30 & 87, starter runs, so I think it's not a starter problem.

I saw an old forum at:
http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f196/my-renegade-wont-start-56254/

It's the same problem that mine.........

Any other idea??

I will really appreciate your help.....

regards,
Lewis

 

[dude1116]

So if I'm understanding this correctly...you're turning the key and getting nothing?

I had a starting issue a while back which turned out to be the starter. The starter would spin, but the teeth wouldn't pop out to engage the flywheel...so I would hear a "whirring" noise but the engine wouldn't turn.

The reason I mention this is that you said you get no crank noise from the starter...not sure if you're hearing nothing or...?

 

[blackhawk]

So if I'm understanding this correctly...you're turning the key and getting nothing?

I had a starting issue a while back which turned out to be the starter. The starter would spin, but the teeth wouldn't pop out to engage the flywheel...so I would hear a "whirring" noise but the engine wouldn't turn.

The reason I mention this is that you said you get no crank noise from the starter...not sure if you're hearing nothing or...?

Hi, well, most of the day do nothing! I mean no noise, however, this week end I hear a little tiny noise, kinf of a crank noise....

I know that inside the starter there is a piece named bendix.... do you know what does it does? It's possible that it doesn0t let solenoid to act?

 

[blackhawk]

The most strange, is that when the problem is on, I can make starter spin by jumping the 30 & 87 sockets

 

[Billwill]

The most strange, is that when the problem is on, I can make starter spin by jumping the 30 & 87 sockets

Firstly this type of starter motor does not use a Bendix which was a pinion gear that would run outwards on the motor shaft to engage the flywheel under centrifigal force and then would slide back under spring pressure when power to the motor was stopped.

This starter uses a solenoid that when energized does two things...firstly makes a large contact inside it to apply massive current to the starter motor to get it to turn and simultaneasly the solenoid moves the pinion gear out wards on a forked arm to engage the flywheel.

So your solenoid and starter are basically working since get them to engage when jumpering pins 30 and 87 inside the Starter Relay. Doing this procedure means you have bypassed the ignition switch and actuator pin assembly.... which you have replaced and have bypassed the Starter Relay....also replaced.
I do not know your model number but this points to the Starter Relay Coil not being energized due to one of the interlocks failing ie. the Park or Neutral interlocks.

So first try start it in Neutral to see if that helps....assuming it is an auto!

The newer KJs such as the 2005/6 have more interlocks preventing the Starter Relay coil from finding ground and hence energizing...here the PCM/BCM/TCM can come into play if these modules are not happy with something.....codes would be good to get here!

So try Neutral first and let me know what year/model you have then I can post the relevant circuit diagram!:shrug:

 

[blackhawk]

Hi Bill,

thanks for your comments and time.

I have a Kj Liberty 2007 automatic (Limited). The starter # 56044735AB

The sensor you mention is the manual valve lever, it's very difficult to access .....is there any way to test it?

By the way, I need to know what cable coming from ignition switch is the one whose terminal ends at the fuse box (Power Distribution Center)

 

[streetyme]

Wow talk about coincidence I have a 2004 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4 3.7 that has had the same random problem. I would drive around and when it hits operating temp . would randomly not turn over or ever heard the starter click just nothing . it did it last month got roll backed to the shop, but when they tried to duplicate it would fire right up.. Battery was replaced last month and electrical system checked out fine to. They thought it might be a starter so fast forward yesterday same thing happened called around and seemed to think it was a faulty starter , so picked up one today. I tried to start it up after supper and it fired right up.. hopefully that's what it is..

 

[Billwill]

Double post

 

[Billwill]

Hi Bill,

thanks for your comments and time.

I have a Kj Liberty 2007 automatic (Limited). The starter # 56044735AB

The sensor you mention is the manual valve lever, it's very difficult to access .....is there any way to test it?

By the way, I need to know what cable coming from ignition switch is the one whose terminal ends at the fuse box (Power Distribution Center)

I have never heard of a Manual Valve Lever...check the circuit diagram for the starter section...will show which interlocks are supposed to ground the bottom section of the Starter Motor Solenoid. Have you tried starting in Neutral instead of Park?

I do not know of any 2007 KJ Service Manuals anywhere online but you can download the 2006 KJ Service Manual here...includes circuit diagrams. Should be close enough to your 2007 but I believe the 2007 has "drive by wire" gas pedal!:shrug:

Index of /manuals/Jeep/KJ

 

[blackhawk]

Hi Bill,
yes, I have tried to start in neutral many times, and It does, but a couple of times I wasn't lucky. However, it normally starts in Park at second chance, or maximun third, so I can't know if the range sensor (named manual lever sensor) is working fine.

Look into a manual of parts I have for my Libby 2007, the manual refers to piece # 04659677AC. I don' know if it's the sensor that send signal to PCM and indicates that it's in Park, R, etc etc

Yes, mine is drive by wire!!

Do you know what sensors is the one that send signal to PCM?

 

[blackhawk]

Wow talk about coincidence I have a 2004 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4 3.7 that has had the same random problem. I would drive around and when it hits operating temp . would randomly not turn over or ever heard the starter click just nothing . it did it last month got roll backed to the shop, but when they tried to duplicate it would fire right up.. Battery was replaced last month and electrical system checked out fine to. They thought it might be a starter so fast forward yesterday same thing happened called around and seemed to think it was a faulty starter , so picked up one today. I tried to start it up after supper and it fired right up.. hopefully that's what it is..

Did you change the solenoid to the old starter?

 

[blackhawk]

Hi guys,

well, finally the problem was solved... a poor ground issue!

I had installed a cable on negative (-) of battery to the starter, it didn't fix maybe for the poor ground connection between starter to the engine.

I tried with same terminal cable from battery to one bolt of the alternator!. Elapsed time one week and no starting problem at all.

The most strange was that I clean the ground point located under the PCM....

Other thing was that I feel a better and stronger starting....

This long headache has finally ended... thanks everyone for your help!

 

[profdlp]

Glad you got it figured out! :favorites13: