eater Core questions (yeah as always)

[drowssap]

This is why I plan on installing an ultra gauge or something. Most vehicles are not really accurate.

 

[GunnerSchenck]

Sure arent.. My mustang blew the seal between my timing cover and water pump and spewed out all its coolant within 5 minutes.. pulled over because my water pump started making a nice loud whine from running dry.
Never showed it overheating on the gauge, if I hadn't heard the water pump at a stop sign, mightve lost an an engine lol.. not good to get an interference engine hot.
All because my gauge gave me 0 heads up...
What can you expect from a car that has no low gas light :happy175: had to run out of gas to realize that one lol

 

[fastcarsspeed]

Sorry my point about HOAT is that it scales. My daughters car had it's fluids typically changed around the 75k mark. I don't do all of her maintenance so can't really remember the exact times just the ones where I know I was doing the work. I have had Mopar's and Fords all of my life and had not seen scaling like this until I had cars with HOAT.

 

[tommudd]

Sorry my point about HOAT is that it scales. My daughters car had it's fluids typically changed around the 75k mark. I don't do all of her maintenance so can't really remember the exact times just the ones where I know I was doing the work. I have had Mopar's and Fords all of my life and had not seen scaling like this until I had cars with HOAT.

My 04 I bought new never had any signs of anything at over 221,000 miles

 

[GunnerSchenck]

Sorry my point about HOAT is that it scales. My daughters car had it's fluids typically changed around the 75k mark. I don't do all of her maintenance so can't really remember the exact times just the ones where I know I was doing the work. I have had Mopar's and Fords all of my life and had not seen scaling like this until I had cars with HOAT.

Not if changed at proper intervals. It absolutely does not.

Mind you. What you're arguing about is a very minimal aspect of the information I was offering JBDive. So shall we argue over nothing, or try to help him with his problem? This is not a know it all match, it's a place for people to offer constructive input, rather than incorrect information.

 

[JeepinJarhead03]

HOAT's not vulnerable to electrolysis like the old green antifreeze is, much safer for the abundance of aluminum that's in our cooling systems.

as for scaling, out of the thousands of gallons of HOAT that i've drained from vehicles over the years the only time ive seen significant deposits were from lack of maint. or from using well water or non distilled water in the mix. you may have simply gotten ahold of falsely labeled water. it happens



how many miles are on JB's water pump, and did he say if he has one of those ridiculous SAF-T thermostats?

 

[GunnerSchenck]

HOAT's not vulnerable to electrolysis like the old green antifreeze is, much safer for the abundance of aluminum that's in our cooling systems.

as for scaling, out of the thousands of gallons of HOAT that i've drained from vehicles over the years the only time ive seen significant deposits were from lack of maint. or from using well water or non distilled water in the mix. you may have simply gotten ahold of falsely labeled water. it happens



how many miles are on JB's water pump, and did he say if he has one of those ridiculous SAF-T thermostats?

He didn't mention either, but hopefully chimes in soon..

 

[JBDive]

You could try this technique? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YccsacgUJPI

Toilet Bowl Cleaner, interesting. CLR has been mentioned by others around the Internet but that stuff can be pretty aggressive. The idea of trying to circulate whatever you are using to flush with is one you will find around with various methods of using submersible pumps and 5 gallon buckets.

 

[JBDive]

Sorry my point about HOAT is that it scales. My daughters car had it's fluids typically changed around the 75k mark. I don't do all of her maintenance so can't really remember the exact times just the ones where I know I was doing the work. I have had Mopar's and Fords all of my life and had not seen scaling like this until I had cars with HOAT.

Per the original owner's manual the Jeep Service Schedule is to not touch HOAT/Radiator Fluid until 60 months (5 years) or 75k miles. I understand that Jeep revised that later on and all dealers will suggest it far more often. I'll admit mine was well over due when I had the radiator replaced.

 

[JBDive]

HOAT's not vulnerable to electrolysis like the old green antifreeze is, much safer for the abundance of aluminum that's in our cooling systems.

as for scaling, out of the thousands of gallons of HOAT that I've drained from vehicles over the years the only time ive seen significant deposits were from lack of maint. or from using well water or non distilled water in the mix. you may have simply gotten ahold of falsely labeled water. it happens



how many miles are on JB's water pump, and did he say if he has one of those ridiculous SAF-T thermostats?

Just 138K and other than the parts listed below it's all original equipment:

1. Passenger Rear Window Regulator - x2
2. Radiator - last summer, small crack by mounting point
3. Serpentine belt
4. A/C compressor as it was as cheap as just replacing Clutch Coil
5. Small elbow shaped vacuum hose by gas tank - Engine Code Small/Large Vacuum leak
6. Fluid/Filter changes as needed
7. Tires/brake pads as needed
8. Various bulbs, won't ever buy those SilverStar headlight bulbs again

Pretty sure that's the full list. It's gone in twice for the Air Bag recalls and I'm still getting notices it needs that done so either there is another recall or the dealer didn't submit that they did the work (or did they do the work?) plus the gas tank recall where all they do is place a sticker on your factory trailer hitch. I need to get the ****** fluid/filter done as well as the axle and transfer case fluids changed out again. More concerned with the transmission filter and fluid than the rest. Spark plugs are due too.

30 degrees tonight and vent temps were still in the 115-120 range however I do think I feel a real drop in temps when just idling. It takes a bit before that shows using a laser infrared thermometer but my senses tell me it drops, or you just have my thinking that is the case now.

 

[JeepinJarhead03]

given the impeller is plastic they generally get replaced every 60-100k , they're about 60 bucks, if you look hard enough you can find one with a metal impeller

they use an o ring instead of gasket so they aren't a big deal to deal with, bout a 20min R&R , if you pull it and all is well, it's about a 3 dollar o ring

it could be slipping on the shaft, or the face of it may have detached obstructing a portion of the flow

iit's actually pretty common for a worn water pump on these vehicles to cause poorly performing heat at the vents without increasing the temps at the sensors enough to move the gauge from normal. when mine completely sheared the face that rides against the block i could hear it, but i had crappy heat for 3 or 4 weeks before that actually happened

my heat has melted the glue on peoples sneakers on road trips, and that's generally how everyone's is heh

 

[GunnerSchenck]

20 bucks says by the end of winter, it'll happen every time you stop. When this happens, reread this thread with an open mind and see that all the information you need is in here..
Like I said, when mine got bad enough to be freezing at stops, it was still volcano hot at driving speeds.
But it didn't start this way, spent months believing it was my heater core (hence me having a replacement one sitting around) until it started to turn into an rpm related problem.. Probably 3ish months of iffy heat before it got there though.

If you want to know for sure, have it hooked up to a scan tool that can give you a readout of the coolant temperatures. Not a code reader, a scan tool.

Still going with my gut, and as I've stated twice though (the first time being in my very first post), my bet lies in this.. water pump going bad due to faulty design and lack of coolant flow.. lack of coolant flow, due to impeller failure and a repetitively clogging heater core.. Heater core clogging from improperly maintained coolant.. coolant improperly maintained due to extra mileage and degradation, as well as possibly being mixed with water that wasn't distilled. Any other water will contain minerals and impurities not meant to enter your cooling system, or mix with your coolant.
All it would take to start this merry go round, is using tap water instead of distilled water in your coolant.. and then get ready for the sh*tshow lol..

 

[fastcarsspeed]

Yeah mine will burn you right out of the jeep. What temp TStats do we use? 140? I would expect your inside temps to be close to that correct?

 

[JBDive]

20 bucks says by the end of winter, it'll happen every time you stop. When this happens, reread this thread with an open mind and see that all the information you need is in here..
Like I said, when mine got bad enough to be freezing at stops, it was still volcano hot at driving speeds.
But it didn't start this way, spent months believing it was my heater core (hence me having a replacement one sitting around) until it started to turn into an rpm related problem.. Probably 3ish months of iffy heat before it got there though.

If you want to know for sure, have it hooked up to a scan tool that can give you a readout of the coolant temperatures. Not a code reader, a scan tool.

Still going with my gut, and as I've stated twice though (the first time being in my very first post), my bet lies in this.. water pump going bad due to faulty design and lack of coolant flow.. lack of coolant flow, due to impeller failure and a repetitively clogging heater core.. Heater core clogging from improperly maintained coolant.. coolant improperly maintained due to extra mileage and degradation, as well as possibly being mixed with water that wasn't distilled. Any other water will contain minerals and impurities not meant to enter your cooling system, or mix with your coolant.
All it would take to start this merry go round, is using tap water instead of distilled water in your coolant.. and then get ready for the sh*tshow lol..

I've been being cooked for the past week even when outside temps dropped into the 30's. Vent temps hover in the 115-130 range via infrared thermometer. Wish my digital voltmeter/thermometer hadn't crapped out as it's more accurate and can just be left in place for testing vs. trying to shoot the laser between the vents while driving.

I'm leaning more to water pump from the comments and if the internals are indeed plastic then I wouldn't be surprised to see the impeller slipping. I'll have a better idea of temps after Christmas and the coming extra cold air we are expecting, plus I will be somewhere it's usually 10 degrees colder to begin with.

I know I have always used correct fluids and distilled water. "Radiator guy" had mopar HOAT premix and I hope enough sense to not top it off with tap since that is all they do, radiator work. Last two flushes of heater core did not produce any meaningful crap coming back out so we are back to the question of if a backflush can avoid the actual tubes and just exit the other side. I am **** about fluids and use only Mopar or Mopar approved and synthetics all around - except for grease joints. Big fan of changing filters more than suggested although as I said my ****** needs it done ASAP. Keeping the fluids clean and in good health is the best way to keep a car running forever, that and avoiding the #$%@@$^! on the road.

 

[GunnerSchenck]

I truly believe it's your water pump.
If you don't want to go through the trouble of the heater core then go for your water pump/thermostat/fluid flush.
As I said, not going to be able to change the design now.. And if nothing is coming out, and you're convinced that it's bypassing the cooling tunes through the top of the heater core, then there's nothing left to be done but change it out.
I have 5 DVOMS, and every one of them (except the crappy Harbor freight one) read consistently and surprisingly enough my craftsman ones would come out with exactly the same readings that everyone else's snap on one's would read when I was in college.
My buddy actually would ask to use one of my craftsman ones overy his Blue Point DVOM.
You can get a decent yellow/black one from Walmart for 20 bucks.. but watch testing voltage for more than 10 seconds at a time with it because the fuses in it reeaaalllyyy love to blow.

 

[JBDive]

I truly believe it's your water pump.
If you don't want to go through the trouble of the heater core then go for your water pump/thermostat/fluid flush.
As I said, not going to be able to change the design now.. And if nothing is coming out, and you're convinced that it's bypassing the cooling tunes through the top of the heater core, then there's nothing left to be done but change it out.
I have 5 DVOMS, and every one of them (except the crappy Harbor freight one) read consistently and surprisingly enough my craftsman ones would come out with exactly the same readings that everyone else's snap on one's would read when I was in college.
My buddy actually would ask to use one of my craftsman ones overy his Blue Point DVOM.
You can get a decent yellow/black one from Walmart for 20 bucks.. but watch testing voltage for more than 10 seconds at a time with it because the fuses in it reeaaalllyyy love to blow.

Yeah I burnt out the Craftsman one I had by selecting the wrong settings then applying current. Apparently the fuse in them is easily bypassed and takes out the circuit board as I've done that twice now. For measuring temps they are certainly dead on. I used it mainly for temps and as a VM on batteries used on portable medical carts. Somehow I blew both of them trying to test continuity.

Watched a few videos of the water pump replacement which made it look like child's play then took a look under my hood again. Not so easy. I have the mechanical (viscous) fan and when I looked at replacing the radiator I found the combination of the fan and shroud to provide no room to work and it was impossible to pull either out of the engine compartment. The "radiator guy" pulled the entire front off to do the radiator, surely that's not required for the water pump and a mechanical fan setup.

 

[CzarKJ]

If you were closer I'd say come over and I'll have it done in an hour even with the mech fan. Really really easy once you make room for it.

 

[dude1116]

Very easy. Don't let it intimidate you. If you can pull hoses from a heater core you can swap a water pump.

 

[tjkj2002]

If your only getting 115-120 degrees out the center vents you got a issue.

At full operating temp(195-219 degrees for the 3.7) the air coming out the center vents on fan setting 2 should be closer to 160+ degrees.Mine pumps out 172 degrees according to my Flir infrared.

While getting colder air when idling does mean reduced coolant flow it also means reduced coolant system flow volume which in 90% of the cases is a direct result of low coolant(AKA you got a leak).About 10% of the cases are plugged heater cores,and that # is rising due to the higher rate of neglect vehicles see these days..Of course if you own a VW it's a 99.9% chance the waterpump impeller came off the pump shaft.

It's been years since I've seen a non-VW impeller fail on a waterpump and I do this crap for a living.

 

[JBDive]

If you were closer I'd say come over and I'll have it done in an hour even with the mech fan. Really really easy once you make room for it.

I've not looked more at it but I know when I looked at replacing the radiator it required removing the entire grill work and all. I don't much see how you can get in there to pull the fan for the cowling and you can't pull it without pulling the fan. I may ask the shop up the street what he would want to do it. He did my AC compressor for a reasonable fee when the clutch started acting up.

So far still cooking. Hasn't been supper cold but cold enough. Far hotter than it was prior to that last flushing where I went through the flush kits and vinegar, even though I didn't see anything actually come out. There is something certainly wrong since I can't run the fan at full speed and the temps stay up.