Coolant in Oil

[GunnerSchenck]

I have a 2003 jeep liberty sport with 151k that has consistently been leaking coolant very slowly overnight for a while now. Have had it taken to a mechanic twice to save time and both times replaced the water pump? -_- anyways..still leaks coolant and cannot seem to find the leak. Smells very strongly of coolant when running even when cold, sometimes can smell it through the heat inside. Also main reason I'm posting when doing an oil change I could see a foam on the inside which looked like the coolant has reached the oil which made me think intake gasket because the car has been this way for a bit and still runs normal..and no white smoke or anything. Just curious, any help please?!?

 

[blakeusa]

Pretty classic symptoms of a bad head gasket or warped heads or both.

Also common for these engines. And or due to an overheat condition.

The coolant flows through the heads and if there is a problem the coolant gets sucked into the engine.

The only fix is to have the heads removed, milled flat and new gaskets installed.

While in there most replace the Timing chains and water pump as its all apart.

Others can chime in but don't know how many miles you would expect to get after this repair if you already have 150k miles on the car.

And yes its expensive at any shop - as its a lot of hours to get apart and back together.

 

[blakeusa]

Before doing heads you can have your coolant system Pressure Tested as well as they can use ultravoilet lights to look for leaks.

And for your Head Gaskets you can have a compression check done.

 

[uss2defiant]

I hear steel seal is good.

I think do a combustion leak test?

 

[GunnerSchenck]

Just wanted to add that the vehicle runs normal and has never overheated on the gauge but doesn't mean it hasn't, also that the car is I'd say a short distance driver

 

[RRWA]

Where exactly did you see the "foam on the inside"?

 

[ltd02]

Where exactly did you see the "foam on the inside"?

Like above, What foam? A little yellow/brown "sludge" inside the filler cap is not unusual. Short trips and the condensation etc will not "cook" off. If your oil level increases as coolant drops and oil looks like a Latte then you've got problems. I cooked my HGs and never smelled coolant. Coolant level dropped and oil level rose. If you are smelling coolant check your rad cap. Mine started going a while back and that was a symptom and level may drop slowly.

I had success with Bar's HG fix. It worked immediately and lasted until I finally got around to changing the gaskets. You definitely don't want to use any of that stuff unless absolutely sure that is what's going on. It can do way more harm than good. I removed about a gallon of warm coolant, shook the crap out of the Bar's and dumped the Bar's into the warm gallon. Mixed thoroughly and dumped the whole thing back into the reservoir and started the thing up to ensure it got in completely and not as on big blob. I've heard you can connect the in and out of the heater core to avoid it going in there as well but I did not and have had no problems.

Guess overall a more detailed investigation is necessary before you go spending big buck to swap the HGs.

Almost forgot, no coolant contact with the intake in these things. Just block and heads although there are O ring like gaskets between the block and the timing cover leading to and from the water pump.

Happy Holidays and good luck!

 

[belvedere]

A couple of possibilities here: it could have a head gasket leak, as suggested, or it may have a heater core leak(since you can smell coolant inside). Like another poster mentioned, condensation can cause a milky foam in the oil, if the oil is never fully warmed up.

 

[Hockeygoon]

I agree with the comments about actually diagnosing the issue (leak down tests on the pistons and the collant system) before tearing into the heads. That gets extremely expensive very quick - especially if you find its actually a leaking heater core after replacing the head gaskes.

Normally a blown headgasket won't result in all the smell you are noticing - if its all internal. A little foam in a vehicle that's only making short trips wouldn't surprise me expecially in cold weather. I would advise keeping the oil changed at regular intervals of 3000 miles under these circumstances. Even if its only condensation it can still build up sludge in your engine.

 

[GunnerSchenck]

The foam was the yellow/brown sludge on the inside of the filler cap you're referring to so possibly not coolant I suppose, thank you.
and the oil level never rises so I suspect nothings being added to it except the oil I put into it. It does get regular oil changes every 3k with high mileage..sometimes a little before.
But I appreciate all the replies and suggestions. Very helpful!! This weekend I'm thinking I'm gunna take her to the shop to get the ac evacuated then gunna jump on that heater core. All in all even if she still leaks after. I'll have still spent but a fraction of even considering my heads hah. Although who knows maybe that route will happen. But the things heat is garbage anyways so I've been considering this for awhile anyways. Plus I think I need to change my resistor while I'm at it because heat does not really come out much until the 3rd fan speed. And it's either luke warm at best or fiery lava hot. Anyone who's undergone this dash teardown or this heater core replacement already, any tips or your two-cents are always appreciated!

 

[John3seventeen]

Look underneath the upper radiator hose for any white residue on the radiator. These things are famous for pin hole leaks in that area. And you can sometimes smell it inside depending on your vent setting. It won't really leave any drips on the ground that are noticeable unless the leak gets bad.

 

[GunnerSchenck]

SCRATCH ALL THAT. Back to the drawing board. Coolant is low.. and I think I finally found where it is leaking down onto. The exhaust flange just behind the o2 sensor that sits down below the coolant reservoir. Which made me sorry of gitty maybe below a possible leaky heater core. Then I check the oil (changed less than 1500 miles ago) and I'll connect an image of the filler cap area..concerning. then more concerning I pull the dipstick..I'll connect another image.
Also side point don't know if it's connected but the back side of the valve cover under the coolant tank seems to be wet, but with the years of grease I can't seem to tell what liquid. But the front of this sides and the other sides covers are dry. Was thinking maybe runoff from missing the coolant tank filling it but that was probably a good almost 2 weeks ago so would probably be dry by now so unlikely.
Could this be connected to a blown head gasket? Of course just hoping for it to not be that but hey, what can you do?
If so any recommendations, with 152k do I pay for a new head gasket to be put in or should I go with an engine swap? Because I can imagine that if coolant is getting into the block the sludge in there by now has had to have done some work.
It's a pretty rust free for the most part vehicle. Very little at all and around the lift gate glass. Only a 2nd sport so if I was to put an engine in it, I'd probably be looking at another factory 3.7 so kinda considering saying goodbye to the good old girl if it is the heads. Onto the garage for some compression tests and leak down tests I suppose.

 

[ltd02]

If it's leaking back there it could be the coolant tank itself, the hose connecting to it or the heater hoses where they meet the firewall. Wouldn't panic yet. If the coolant is in the oil (high oil level and milky) then the HG(s) is/are toast and you really don't need the leak down or compression tests. With the vehicle age I'd have both heads checked and gaskets replaced if that is the case.

 

[dude1116]

Have you checked your radiator? VERY common issue for these to leak out the top driver's side corner:

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It's fairly uncommon to leak up by the tank (possible still I suppose)...but it sounds like you have EXACTLY what I was dealing with earlier: A valve cover gasket leak AND a coolant leak (radiator). I replaced the gasket and the radiator and I'm no longer leaking any vital fluids!

 

[John3seventeen]

^^^^^ this ! Oooops he said scratch all that.:emotions34:

 

[dude1116]

^^^^^ this ! Oooops he said scratch all that.:emotions34:

He's pretty unspecific. I wanna see the pics he said he was going to post!

 

[GunnerSchenck]

Was going across my old threads to see what they were and realized I never put up those pictures but remember taking them lol.
The yellow foam must have been condensation in the filler neck, combined with sludge milky foam from the old bad pcv valve..
Replaced the filler neck gasket and pcv valve/hose and that went away.
The coolant leak ended up being another bad water pump, combined with a leak out of both hoses on the coolant overflow reservoir, which was dripping down onto the exhaust.
Ironically enough, I later developed a Crack in my radiator in exactly where dude1116 posted.
At stops and low speeds, the coolant fumes burning off on my o2 sensors ended up creating smoke under the hood (which I believe is what I used to smell through my vents).
I've also since replaced the blower motor resistor, which fixed the previous fan settings.
So my engine was showing many signs of head gasket issues, which ended up being many small unrelated problems..
Who knew.
52k later and all of these issues have been resolved.
Never did change the heater core though (although there is a new one sitting in my garage, just waiting until the day I need to drop the dash for something else.
Just wanted to finish up this thread and say thanks for the previous replies!!

 

[GunnerSchenck]

He's pretty unspecific. I wanna see the pics he said he was going to post!

Found em! Lol

 

[LibertyTC]

^ Yummy... looks like you needed a spoon!
57758[/ATTACH]"]

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A new PCV system is available and eliminates cold weather foam & the small pcv on oil filler neck.
LinK: http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f202/upgrade-your-pcv-system-tsb-25-001-08-a-59416/
Glad all is fixed now! :gr_grin:

 

[JeepJeepster]

Hmmm!!! Nom nom nom!

Thats normal for short trips. Maybe try a different type of oil. The warm oil mist makes it way up the fill neck them condenses on the cooler plastic. Ive seen traces of this but never to that extent on my kj. Ive always used mobil or valvoline synthetic oil and hardly ever make short trips.

Also, you dont have the insert that later KJ's got to try and stop the yogurt from forming.