Black smoke? Just a bit!

John Todd

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Hi everyone. A very Merry Christmas to all.

I posted on here some time ago that upon start up my KJ 2.8CRD was producing a lot of white smoke for the first few minutes. A faulty head gasket was suggested but I wasn't sure about this as there was no water in the oil nor any mayonnaise in the oil filler cap. So I splashed out and bought one of the miracle liquid cures! After following the instructions to the letter the white smoke went away. Great, eh?

However, maybe I did something when I was at the same time replacing the two serpentine idler pulleys (long story but when I bought the kit they supplied the wrong ones) because now the white smoke has been replaced by thick black smoke.

If I drive gently on the flat it's fine, but if I put my foot down to accelerate hard or to climb a hill there is very little power and thick black smoke pours out of the exhaust. I have never seen anything like it and I was in the motor trade for a lot of my working life.

Could I have left off a wire when I was doing the above job, or inadvertently done something else to cause this? Mind you, I must say that for a 2.8 litre 4 cylinder turbo diesel she doesn't seem to have much power except on the flat when even on a low throttle it romps away. Most odd.

Any ideas anyone?

John
 

Billwill

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I know on my Export 2002 2.5 CRD I had major black smoke and little power when one of the Turbo Hoses developed a large split....also when one Turbo Hose popped off the Intercooler due to a loose hose-clamp.

I also get some black smoke when accelerating hard....a good clean of the MAP Sensor with Brake Cleaner Spray fixes that up for a while!;)

May be slightly relevant to your issue!

And I personally do not trust any of these Miracle Magic Liquid cures if poured into the coolant....tend to turn the coolant into porridge!
 
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turblediesel

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White smoke on startup might be condensation in the exhaust system burning off.

I don't think replacing serpentine idlers could have caused any problems.

Oil rots the original boost hoses and they split open causing black smoke and a loss of power. The hose going from the airbox to the turbo rots out as well, where the hose from the crankcase vent (hockey puck) connects. There are silicon replacement hoses available that don't rot available from Sasquatch, and others. Another possibility is a cracked intercooler.

If your CRD is US spec the turbo has a boost controller that can go bad affecting boost. Euro spec CRDs have a different turbo setup; no variable vane.
 

John Todd

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I know on my Export 2002 2.5 CRD I had major black smoke and little power when one of the Turbo Hoses developed a large split....also when one Turbo Hose popped off the Intercooler due to a loose hose-clamp.

I also get some black smoke when accelerating hard....a good clean of the MAP Sensor with Brake Cleaner Spray fixes that up for a while!;)

May be slightly relevant to your issue!

And I personally do not trust any of these Miracle Magic Liquid cures if poured into the coolant....tend to turn the coolant into porridge!
I know on my Export 2002 2.5 CRD I had major black smoke and little power when one of the Turbo Hoses developed a large split....also when one Turbo Hose popped off the Intercooler due to a loose hose-clamp.

I also get some black smoke when accelerating hard....a good clean of the MAP Sensor with Brake Cleaner Spray fixes that up for a while!;)

May be slightly relevant to your issue!

And I personally do not trust any of these Miracle Magic Liquid cures if poured into the coolant....tend to turn the coolant into porridge!
Thanks for that. I'll check the hoses asap and will clean the Map Sensor once I've found out where it is. As for the Miracle liquid stuff, after having run the engine for the prescribed time the system is thoroughly flushed and refilled with antifreeze.
 

John Todd

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White smoke on startup might be condensation in the exhaust system burning off.

I don't think replacing serpentine idlers could have caused any problems.

Oil rots the original boost hoses and they split open causing black smoke and a loss of power. The hose going from the airbox to the turbo rots out as well, where the hose from the crankcase vent (hockey puck) connects. There are silicon replacement hoses available that don't rot available from Sasquatch, and others. Another possibility is a cracked intercooler.

If your CRD is US spec the turbo has a boost controller that can go bad affecting boost. Euro spec CRDs have a different turbo setup; no variable vane.
Thanks very much. I'll check all the hoses at the earliest opportunity. It's a RHD UK spec imported here into France but is unmodified except for the headlights.
 

turblediesel

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A quick check for a bad head gasket can be done on a cold engine by starting it up and running it for a minute or two. Then shut it off and remove the coolant pressure cap while listening for a release of pressure. If you hear a pressure release your head gasket might be releasing cylinder gases into the water jacket. There are other ways head gaskets can fail. Coolant into oil, oil into coolant, oil or coolant into a cylinder, oil/coolant/combustion gasses into the atmosphere.
 

John Todd

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Thanks again. Yes, I'm aware of the tests for a blown head gasket but in any case the white smoke seems to have been dealt with by the "Liquid Steel", I think it was called. Now, as soon as I get a chance, and my health improves, I'll thoroughly check all the hoses that have been mentioned and clean the MAP sensor. I've also read a lot about the EGR system and wonder whether that might be causing the black smoke? I'd like to remove it as many suggest but I'm worried that it will leave me with an engine warning light forever more (I don't think there's anyone here in rural France who could reprogram the ECU) so I may end up just giving it a thorough clean?
 

John Todd

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OK, so I've had a look at the hoses. At first glance everything seemed OK and I was beginning to think that the problem lay elsewhere and then I put my hand around one of the large hoses to check that it was tight and found a large split underneath - about 3 inches long. It's the large hose that runs from near the glow plugs and goes up and forward to connect with the slim radiator that sits in front of the water radiator - the intercooler? So that's on the passenger side (RHD) or driver's side in the 'States. It's a large hose about 3 inches in diameter.

Would that cause black smoke and loss of power?

I wold also like to clean the MAP sensor but don't know where it is? According to a You Tube video it's at the back on the right-hand side (if standing at the front of the vehicle) with an electrical connection and an Allen bolt holding it down but I can't see anything like that?
 

turblediesel

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Bingo! The splits happen at the bottom of the hoses because that's where the slimy oil drool collects. That will cause the black smoke and loss of power. The turbo just blows raspberrys out of the split in the hose and the black smoke is unburnt fuel. ID Parts has silicon hoses that won't rot.

That is the intercooler or, in jeep terminology, the CAC. Charge Air Cooler.

The MAP sensor is at the back of the valve/cam cover on the left side of the jeep (right side standing in front looking at it), over the inlet cam. You won't be able to see it with the fancy engine cover on. It's a 4 or 5mm allen scr.ew holding it. It'll be covered in fluffy oil crud like the entire inside of the intake manifold. A Provent air/oil seperator can minimise the crud. Sasquatch make an excellent kit for that.
 

Billwill

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Definitely worth getting Silicone hoses to replace the black rubber ones!

I know you can get these hoses in different colors Overseas. I have not seem them here in SA and in any case my 2002 2.5 Export CRD has narrower hoses..apparently available by ordering Online but I have not gone that route!

My CRD has two smaller bolts holding the Bosch Map sensor in place...newer CRDs have only one larger bolt holding the Sensor in place!

Lost Jeeps definitely warn against using any strong cleaners or a toothbrush to clean the MAP sensor...they suggest blowing it out with Brake Cleaner and this is what I have been doing for the last 19 years with no problems!;)
 

John Todd

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Thanks everyone for your input. Whilst waiting for a new hose I decided to tape up the split for now. Now it could be my imagination, or wishful thinking, but the black smoke seemed to disappear after about 10 seconds and didn't come back, and I could actually accelerate up the hill out of the village! Fingers crossed. I'll have another look for the MAP sensor on Monday. Next job will be investigating the floppy 4-wheel drive lever that does nothing. The previous owner said that "somebody" had pulled it too hard thinking it was the handbrake and had snapped the cable or rod that connects to the transfer box .... hmm.
 

Billwill

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Yeah when my one Intercooler hose blew with a 6 inch split I taped it up with Duct tape until I could get to the Dealers!

Download the Jeep KJ Service Manuals here...no 2004 model but the MAP Sensor will be in the same place no matter what year KJ you have!

www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

And:
www.lostjeeps.com is a good site that most of us visit. Under the CRD "Love That Torque" section there is a "SAMS NOOB GUIDE" which is worth looking through...shows you nice pictures of the engine and has a good description of how to remove the MAP sensor and how to clean it!
 
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WheelNut

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A big leak in the air intake system like you have will allow a ton of air to leave the system before entering the engine unaccounted for. The engine computer monitors the amount of air flowing to the engine using the MAP sensor, so if it measures an amount of air coming in and then that air disappears down the line the engine computer will think it is getting a lot more air then it really is. The amount of fuel injected into the engine is calculated as a factor of the amount of air, so what is happening is that your engine computer is injecting way to much fuel for the amount of air actually getting to the combustion chamber. Black smoke is an indication of a rich fuel/air mixture, so this correlates with what you are seeing on the road. Cleaning your Map sensor and fixing all leaks in your air intake plumbing will restore the correct fuel/air ratio.
 

turblediesel

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Mine hasn't been a problem, yet, but your floppy 4wd lever is a common problem easily repaired with hardware store parts. Try some searches here; or maybe somebody here knows a good thread about it.
 

budget76

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WHITE SMOKE - What I do is in the morning without starting it

I PULL THE PLUGS, insert a BOROSCOPE and look INSIDE THE CYLINDERS. If there is a puddle of water, then head gasket. If dry, not head gasket. I say this because if the engine is hot,
and you shut it off, there should be pressure in the system and it would leak into the piston. I could then reove plugs and look in for puddle of water.
 

Sevenmilesout

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Hi everyone. A very Merry Christmas to all.

I posted on here some time ago that upon start up my KJ 2.8CRD was producing a lot of white smoke for the first few minutes. A faulty head gasket was suggested but I wasn't sure about this as there was no water in the oil nor any mayonnaise in the oil filler cap. So I splashed out and bought one of the miracle liquid cures! After following the instructions to the letter the white smoke went away. Great, eh?

However, maybe I did something when I was at the same time replacing the two serpentine idler pulleys (long story but when I bought the kit they supplied the wrong ones) because now the white smoke has been replaced by thick black smoke.

If I drive gently on the flat it's fine, but if I put my foot down to accelerate hard or to climb a hill there is very little power and thick black smoke pours out of the exhaust. I have never seen anything like it and I was in the motor trade for a lot of my working life.

Could I have left off a wire when I was doing the above job, or inadvertently done something else to cause this? Mind you, I must say that for a 2.8 litre 4 cylinder turbo diesel she doesn't seem to have much power except on the flat when even on a low throttle it romps away. Most odd.

Any ideas anyone?

John
Hiya John,

Happy New Year..now or Bonne année.

I too live in France with a French registered ex-UK 2007 2.8crd. I also spent most of my working life in the UK motor trade :) Whereabouts are you?

Idler pullies will do nothing to cause the black smoke issue. I see that you have located the split compressor hose, so when that is replaced most of the problems should disappear. The MAP sensor is easy to change or clean & should be checked fairly regularly. Take care not to drop the retaining bolt.

If you are suspicious of a head gasket problem there is a special chemical kit that you can use to check for combustion gasses in the coolant reservoir.

Do you have any engine check lights?

Best regards
Phil
 

John Todd

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Hi Phil. I'm in 24320 Champagne et Fontaine (Dordogne). Where are you? What I was asking at the time was whether in replacing the idler pulleys I had disturbed something else which might have been causing the black smoke. It now seems that the hose probably split when I was removing/replacing it and I didn't notice. My next job will be cleaning the MAP sensor. Then there's the gearbox mounting to replace on my Mercedes W204, the front subframe, engine mountings and timing chain kit to replace on my 1989 Mercedes R107 500SL, and the E Type to finish ..... oh, and a Happy New Year to you also!
 

John Todd

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WHITE SMOKE - What I do is in the morning without starting it

I PULL THE PLUGS, insert a BOROSCOPE and look INSIDE THE CYLINDERS. If there is a puddle of water, then head gasket. If dry, not head gasket. I say this because if the engine is hot,
and you shut it off, there should be pressure in the system and it would leak into the piston. I could then reove plugs and look in for puddle of water.
Hi there. Yes, I could remove the injectors I suppose (diesel) and I do have a Boroscope. If the white smoke comes back I'll maybe try your suggestion, but I'm beginning to think that water was somehow getting into the inlet manifold or the exhaust - is this possible via the EGR?
 

turblediesel

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The EGR valve is water cooled so that might be possible. I haven't looked at my EGR valve since it fell off into a box.
 

John Todd

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Well I've been out for a drive again today and no black smoke. Performance is much better but I now have quite a loud turbo whistle when accelerating hard. I've never heard it before. Is this normal on these?
 
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