4WD Tough Steering Normal??

[Rednroll]

I have a 2003 Liberty 3.7L with 4WD. I purchased the vehicle used. I forgot to engage the 4WD when I was doing my test drive before I purchased the vehicle. I purchased the vehicle in June, and I didn't need to engage the 4WD until some time in December. What I noticed is that anytime I have to make a sharp turn with 4WD engaged, like when I turn into a parking space at the grocery store, is that it becomes hard to steer and the steering kind of jumps and shakes the sharper I turn the steering. I think if I had test drove the vehicle with it in 4WD and noticed this, I don't think I would have ever purchased the vehicle.

I've just learned to live with it, because other than that the vehicle has been fine....(aside from the aweful gas mileage) and thought maybe it's something that is normal for the vehicle when 4WD is engaged. I've always wondered though.....is this something normal for this vehicle or do I have something wrong??? Possible problem with the 4WD gear box???

I also own a Toyota Rav 4 which has full time 4WD and I have never felt this type of steering on my Rav 4. The Rav 4 doesn't turn as sharp as the Liberty though. Just curious, because it certainly doesn't feel right.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

That is completely normal, if you're in 4hi (or for Selec-Trac owners, 4pt).

The RAV-4 is plain awd, so it isn't locked at all.

 

[Rednroll]

That is completely normal, if you're in 4hi (or for Selec-Trac owners, 4pt).

The RAV-4 is plain awd, so it isn't locked at all.

Thank you.....I feel relieved now that this is something normal. My wife is now driving my Rav-4 and it tends to scare her in that she starts to get the feeling like something is going to break when she drives my Jeep.

 

[ephantmon]

Not "normal" by my understanding

*I'm not an expert, I just read the owner's manual*

According to my understanding of the different 4WD options, you probably have selected "4 part time", correct? That locks the differential, causing the wheels to turn at the same rate. When turning, the wheels need to rotate at different speeds (the outer wheel faster, inner wheel slower). When you are turning hard in 4 part time, the wheels are "trying" to rotate at different speeds and your jeep is trying to rotate them at the same speed, hence the hopping. Just use "4 high" and you'll avoid this problem.

*If any of the above is wrong, someone more knowledgeable PLEASE correct me!*

 

[HoosierJeeper]

You won't get what we call Tire Scrub or Crow Hop if you don't use 4pt on dry roads. But, it will feel harder when in 4wd (compared to 2wd or ft 4wd), even in slippery conditions...

 

[Rednroll]

You might be wrong on that one.....I'm obviously no expert either. I don't know the difference between AWD and 4WD....Alls I know is that they both seem to do a pretty good job getting me through the snow when we get dumped on in Michigan. Anyways, I usually always put it into the 4WD-Hi option, which is the 1st position on the gear shift, since I'm normally driving on the highway in snowy weather when I use it. So it's doing this in the 4WD-Hi setting....the "Part-Time" light is on when I have it in this setting. I think, the only way on my Liberty to put it in "Full-Time" 4WD is by having it in the 4WD-Lo position. At least that's what I read in my owner's manual.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

4wd Full Time- Basically AWD, 48% front, 52% rear distribution.

4wd PT- Identical to 4HI on Command Trac models. 50/50 distribution.
Not for use on dry pavement.

 

[Rednroll]

You won't get what we call Tire Scrub or Crow Hop if you don't use 4pt on dry roads. But, it will feel harder when in 4wd (compared to 2wd or ft 4wd), even in slippery conditions...

What I'm describing is on dry roads....it kind of Hops like you described, and it's in "Part-Time". I'm driving slow in a dry parking lot, just making a sharp turn into a parking space to park between 2 vehicles and it kind of jumps or hops. Sometimes, if it's a tight fit getting into the parking spot, I have to be really careful so the vehicle doesn't hop and smack into the vehicle I'm parking next to.

On my Shift lever, there's only 3 positions. 1. 2WD 2. 4WD-Hi 3. 4WD-Lo. I have never been able to figure out, how to have it in the 4WD-Hi position without the "Part-Time" light displaying.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

What I'm describing is on dry roads....it kind of Hops like you described, and it's in "Part-Time". I'm driving slow in a dry parking lot, just making a sharp turn into a parking space to park between 2 vehicles and it kind of jumps or hops. Sometimes, if it's a tight fit getting into the parking spot, I have to be really careful so the vehicle doesn't hop and smack into the vehicle I'm parking next to.

On my Shift lever, there's only 3 positions. 1. 2WD 2. 4WD-Hi 3. 4WD-Lo. I have never been able to figure out, how to have it in the 4WD-Hi position without the "Part-Time" light displaying.

Ahh....seems you have Command Trac. It's bad to leave yours in 4wd on a dry road, drivetrain damage may happen becasue of that....your 4wd is only for wet, muddy....etc. conditions. Not dry roads.

 

[Marlon_JB2]

Yes, NEVER, NEVER use 4WD Part-Time on dry roads. ONLY use it in snow / ice or offroad, where the wheels have a chance to slip a little bit. They are LOCKED 50/50. This causes drivetrain binding which is why you feel the Jeep jump / leap a little bit.

Run 2WD unless you absolutely need to.

 

[Marlon_JB2]

Yes, NEVER, NEVER use 4WD Part-Time on dry roads. ONLY use it in snow / ice or offroad, where the wheels have a chance to slip a little bit. They are LOCKED 50/50. This causes drivetrain binding which is why you feel the Jeep jump / leap a little bit.

Run 2WD unless you absolutely need to.

 

[Rednroll]

Ahh....seems you have Command Trac. It's bad to leave yours in 4wd on a dry road, drivetrain damage may happen becasue of that....your 4wd is only for wet, muddy....etc. conditions. Not dry roads.

Thanks for the heads up. Now, I guess I have a good excuse to tell the cops, if I'm ever pulled over for driving off the road, or passing some one on the shoulder. "Ahhhhh???....Sorry, officer....my Jeep was in 4WD and this stretch of highway had a lot of dry pavement....so I decided to drive on the dirt so I didn't damage my drive train.....and It says right here in my owner's manual, that I shouldn't shift out of 4WD when traveling at speeds above 35 M.P.H."

 

[jnaut]

Thank you.....I feel relieved now that this is something normal. My wife is now driving my Rav-4 and it tends to scare her in that she starts to get the feeling like something is going to break when she drives my Jeep.

Uhm, if you were engaging the 4WD on pavement, what you were experiencing is "Wheel scrub" which is absolutely normal (and highly damaging) to a real 4wd vehicle. Avoid doing that, otherwise you'll be looking at a very expensive transfer case repair.

To give you a little more technical info:

What happens in a 4wd vehicle is now that the front wheels and rear wheels are both receiving power, they don't spin at exactly the same speeds. So as you go into a sharp turn, the front wheels are pulling at the vehicle at a slightly different speed than the rear wheels are pushing it. As a result your transfercase belts and chains are being stressed to the poing of possible breakage.

 

[JeepJeepster]

Yes, NEVER, NEVER use 4WD Part-Time on dry roads. ONLY use it in snow / ice or offroad, where the wheels have a chance to slip a little bit. They are LOCKED 50/50. This causes drivetrain binding which is why you feel the Jeep jump / leap a little bit.

Run 2WD unless you absolutely need to.

What he said x10. If you do run part time on dry roads something WILL break.

Part time is only meant to be used when you actually need 4wd. Lets not compare the 4wd in a Jeep to something like a rav 4, apples and oranges.

 

[tjkj2002]

Yep the command trac t-case with only part time 4wd and 4low should only be used on slippery surfaces only,and wet pavement is not slippery enough.Get better tires.The command trac locks the F/R driveshafts only so they turn at the same speeds but the F/R diffs are slightly geared differently so the front bwheels will always spin faster to keep your rear end from coming around in the slippery stuff.

To lock both front wheels or rear wheels you need to install lockers,they do not come standard or are a option in a KJ or KK.

The select trac t-case has the full time 4wd option which you can use on any surface.It has a open center diff in the t-case that allows the F/R driveshafts to turn at different speeds.It is a random torque split,it is not 48%/52% like others have said,it is variable depending on the conditions.

AWD vehicles like the rav4 is a FWD car based vehicle with rear wheel assist when wheel splippage is detected by the ABS sensors and should never be compared to a actual selectable 4wd like the KJ.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Yep the command trac t-case with only part time 4wd and 4low should only be used on slippery surfaces only,and wet pavement is not slippery enough.Get better tires.The command trac locks the F/R driveshafts only so they turn at the same speeds but the F/R diffs are slightly geared differently so the front bwheels will always spin faster to keep your rear end from coming around in the slippery stuff.

To lock both front wheels or rear wheels you need to install lockers,they do not come standard or are a option in a KJ or KK.

The select trac t-case has the full time 4wd option which you can use on any surface.It has a open center diff in the t-case that allows the F/R driveshafts to turn at different speeds.It is a random torque split,it is not 48%/52% like others have said,it is variable depending on the conditions.

AWD vehicles like the rav4 is a FWD car based vehicle with rear wheel assist when wheel splippage is detected by the ABS sensors and should never be compared to a actual selectable 4wd like the KJ.

I was unaware the FT in Selec Trac re routed torque.....tell me if I'm wrong. I always thought if a vehicle has normal 4hi, the FT mode (if it had it) wouldn't re route torque, because you'd just put it into 4hi in adverse conditions.

 

[tjkj2002]

I was unaware the FT in Selec Trac re routed torque.....tell me if I'm wrong. I always thought if a vehicle has normal 4hi, the FT mode (if it had it) wouldn't re route torque, because you'd just put it into 4hi in adverse conditions.

The select trac t-case is the bastard red head step child of the t-case world.It's not a real part time 4wd t-case and it's not a real full time t-case,it's parts of both(which makes it weaker).The select trac has that open center diff,when in full time it allows the diff to vary the F/R driveshaft speeds,when in part time or 4low it locks that diff so it acts just like a command trac t-case.That's why in a select trac t-case KJ you can not remove a driveshaft(front or rear) and put it in full time,it will send all the torque to the path of leat resistance which is the output without a driveshaft,basically the t-case acts just like your front or rear diff in mud as it will sent power to the path of least resistance(which is the tire without traction).

A true full time t-case does not have a 2wd option,think H1's,it just has 4hi,4hi-lock,N,and 4low-lock.The "lock" postions locks the center diff.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

The select trac t-case is the bastard red head step child of the t-case world.It's not a real part time 4wd t-case and it's not a real full time t-case,it's parts of both(which makes it weaker).The select trac has that open center diff,when in full time it allows the diff to vary the F/R driveshaft speeds,when in part time or 4low it locks that diff so it acts just like a command trac t-case.

A true full time t-case does not have a 2wd option,think H1's,it just has 4hi,4hi-lock,N,and 4low-lock.The "lock" postions locks the center diff.

Thanks. I was already aware of the center diff, and it is the weakling of the line up. I know how it works also...thanks for the add'l info.


The Quadra Trac I in the XK/WK works alright from having it in a rental. Still, it's a Jeep, and needs LOW RANGE!!!

 

[Marlon_JB2]

The Quadra Trac I in the XK/WK works alright from having it in a rental. Still, it's a Jeep, and needs LOW RANGE!!!

Tell me about it.

Ah well.

 

[Rednroll]

Thanks for all the information.

My usual scenario is that while parked, I put it in 4WD-Hi when there is snow on the ground. The problem I see is on my commute to work is that I usually travel on back roads with a lot of snow on them and then eventually make it to the highway where for the most part the highway is clear pavement. I usually leave it in 4WD since I obviously don't pull over to switch it out of 4WD and I like to leave it in 4WD because, on the highway although for the most part it is clear, you still hit the occasional spots of snow/ice or black ice. Since the Jeep in 2WD is rear wheels only, it can feel like you're going to spin out when you hit those occasional spots of slippery conditions, especially with the rear wheel drive and the short wheel base on the Liberty.

Where I experience the hopping is in these same conditions, but now instead of pulling onto a cleared highway, I'm pulling into a cleared parking lot and just trying to park my car in a shopping center, where I have to make a sharp turn into a parking spot. These are pretty typical driving conditions for Michigan winters.

So with the winter conditions I usually drive and use the 4WD, it's starting to sound like, I'm damned if I do or damned if I don't because it really sounds like that I need 4WD-Hi "Full-Time", which I don't seem to have on my Liberty.