2003 Jeep Liberty Concerns

Concerned

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
2003 Jeep Liberty Concerns & Dealership/Service Center Issues

Hello, I am a first time poster here & just wanted to get some advice as to some issues I have been experiencing with a dealership.

I initially brought the vehicle to the dealership for a oil change & upon picking the car up I drove for about 4 miles & the oil light came on, my neighbor & friend checked the oil & no oil was in the car. I alerted the dealership & they said bring it in so I did, after arriving at the dealership the engine began ticking in what sounded like the top side of the engine. So I got a call a few days later informing me that the oil pump more then likely failed, they replaced the oil pump along with several other parts due to sludge build up, after this work was done I picked the car up & it over heated all the way to the max rapidly, again called the dealer and they said bring it in so I did & the next day I found out the cooling system was no purged or the cooling fluid was not installed correctly after the major work was done so they fixed it, after that picked the car up & after driving on the highway & about 15 miles later oil light comes on & engine starts ticking rapidly so I pull over, again call the dealer and they have it towed there, get a call several days later & they informed me they test drove it but no ticking so they replaced the oil pressure sensor as a courtesy to see if that resolved the oil light even though I informed them the engine was ticking when the light came on so replacing a sensor was obviously not going to fix the problem.

I pick it up and again the oil light comes on and engine ticks rapidly 2 miles away, fortunately I was able to get the vehicle there since I was right down the road safely. Now they have the vehicle and I informed them I want it fixed since with no oil being in the car that's when all the problems started.

I just want some insight as to that this could be if anyone has any guidance, is my engine shot from there being no oil in it? Again oil pump, timing chain, chain cover, and a lot of other parts around that area were replaced due to sludge build up so that is not the problem unless the parts installed were defective, could the vehicle overheating due to the cooling being installed improperly caused another issue to arise?

The ticking really began when the car is driven for a few miles & it is fully warmed up and gets more rapid as you drive.

**Update 1-9-2018:
Thanks for all the help everyone! Spoke with the dealership today & they owned up to the technician not putting oil back in the vehicle.

I have 3 options:
1. Used 100k mile engine no charge.
2. Jasper brand new 0 mile rebuilt engine $1300.
3. Chrysler rebuilt 0 mile engine $1300.

They are waving labor & taking $1700 off of the engine, anyone have any insight?

Honestly to the point where I would like to be done with this, but if anyone else has insight I would appreciate it, they did inform me it takes 14 hours roughly to put it in & the engine runs about $3k, is the price of the engine accurate for a 3 year/100k mile warranty & being rebuild from the block out with new parts?

**Update 1-10-2018:
I chose option 3 the new Chrysler engine for $1300, I did get some estimates for hiring a attorney to take on the case and they were more then the $1300 not to mention they referenced that the dealership could drag out the case costing me a lot more in the long run, I did have the option thrown out there to report this to the states attorney which would be a nice option since it would not cost me anything or doing some research and taking this to small claims court myself but I am going to wait until all is said and done to see how things go moving forward.

I can not thank everyone enough for all of the advice as it has been priceless in this time of need & chaos for me. Just so I know based on what has happened could there have been anything more damaged besides the engine? I am assuming the engine is the only thing that can be damaged running it without oil but please correct me if I am wrong, when I initially got the vehicle back for a short period of time after the oil pump was replaced it did overheat twice for a short period of time but I shut off the engine as soon as I noticed, I read that the radiator can heat up in the front of the car & melt the plastic housing the fluid runs through but I did not notice any leaking when I got it back for the short time.

**Update 1-25-2018:
So I wanted to update everyone since this is still ongoing.

I went to test drive the vehicle yesterday & there was a check engine light that came on as soon as we went for the drive which turned out to be the intake manifold so that has been replaced as of today, while test driving the car there was a slight tremble when starting out from a dead stop so when we got back they took the vehicle back in the shop & today we found out there was a bushing that is bad or something which was causing the trembling/stuttering when you would accelerate from a stop, I think it something to do with how the transmission connects to the engine?

If someone has more info as to what this could be it would be appreciated, that is being replaced tomorrow and hopefully that is when we are looking at everything being done. So in least the engine is in, & the car runs wonderfully except these small issues that are being corrected by them.

Thanks again everyone for the help!

**Update 1-26-2018:
So basically it was explained to be a busing that sits between the transmission and motor that was causing the delay in acceleration and the vibration when accelerating from a complete stop, ETA is Monday for completion so I finally have a day to look forward to lol!

I am guessing once you start removing some things from the vehicle that have been there for 14 years things do not always go back the way they were once they are put back? I do not know the exact name of the part that has to be replaced since I did not push for a further explanation.

**Update 1-29-2018:
So got my jeep back, some scuffs on the newly painted front bumper and front grille but I am working on getting that resolved now. Aside from that seems to be running well, going to take the jeep for a longer ride tomorrow to ensure everything is fine. Thanks everyone!

**Update 1-30-2018:
So I have had my jeep back for 2 days now and all has been fine! Up until today on the way back from the mall I was a few miles away from my home when I noticed my phone was almost dead so I plugged in a charger that goes in the input in the front of my jeep & immediately after plugging it in the check engine light came on, as noted I was a few miles away from home so I drove home & did not notice any strange noises or loss in power or anything, turned the jeep on and off and the light is still there. I am going to call them tomorrow to get this sorted as well. Thanks everyone!

**Update 1-31-2018:
So I have had my jeep back for 2 days now and all has been fine! Up until today on the way back from the mall I was a few miles away from my home when I noticed my phone was almost dead so I plugged in a charger that goes in the input in the front of my jeep & immediately after plugging it in the check engine light came on, as noted I was a few miles away from home so I drove home & did not notice any strange noises or loss in power or anything, turned the jeep on and off and the light is still there. I am going to call them tomorrow to get this sorted as well. Thanks everyone!
I will get the code and report back when they open tomorrow, thanks!

**Update 2-1-2018:
The code was cleared out but this is what I was told: o2 left side back bank. Let me know if you have any insight, thanks!
So I am getting the code cleared out & my jeeps grille has been painted, I did notice that it was idling kinda rough for the short time I had it back which I read could be related to the o2 sensor going bad. They are unwilling to work with me on the o2 sensor due to the magnitude of work they had to do and costs covered, supposedly the gaskets all needed to be replaced and the entire fuel system had to also be replaced when the new engine was put in. The sensor is $150 and labor they are saying is $129, I was looking at NGK o2 sensors and for the $150 OEM price of the sensor I could almost get all 4 at once for the same price?

Could the engine failing & me driving it several times with the oil issues of caused the o2 sensor to get gummed up with oil & cause it to fail or would this seemingly be unrelated? I am wondering if I should push this or just get some NGK sensors (all 4 for $150) or just replace the 1 failing sensor and get OEM for $150 for and pay the labor?

It was noted that if I replace just the 1 sensor it could cause some issues with the others due to their age.

**Update 2-2-2018:
So I just spoke with the service center again and they informed me that the codes that were thrown are P0138, P0158, & P0151, the codes were cleared out but today when they re-ran the check there were 3, the first time the code was P0138, I am assuming I should replace both downstream.

I am guessing that when they replaced the engine the sensors had to be removed & put back in? I am wondering if they did not possibly re-connect the harness all the way, or would that throw a different code?

Regardless I am going to pick up the sensors now and having my friend put them in for $60, thanks!
Edit: Just called my friend & he is holding off on any work, I am taking it back to the service center so they can do what you told me & monitor the live data & pin point if there is another underlying issue, thank you so much as you may of just saved me some money! I will update you once I get word back from the service center. Honestly before I took it to the service center initially I NEVER had any major problems & it amazes me how things just keep popping up left & right.

Service center has my jeep now, waiting on the results of the tests.
 
Last edited:

HoosierJeeper

Gold Supporter/Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
20,817
Reaction score
186
Location
Western WI
I'm not an engine expert but overheating it definitely ruined it, that couple with the no oil killed it. New timing chain won't fix that. Likely have top end damage from overheating (dropped valve seat) and probably trashed bearings in the low end from no oil.

How was it before the oil was changed at the dealer? I'm wondering if they forgot to put in the drain plug or something.
 

Concerned

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
I'm not an engine expert but overheating it definitely ruined it, that couple with the no oil killed it. New timing chain won't fix that. Likely have top end damage from overheating (dropped valve seat) and probably trashed bearings in the low end from no oil.

How was it before the oil was changed at the dealer? I'm wondering if they forgot to put in the drain plug or something.

It was fine! There was smoke with a oil smell coming from the front end of the car when I picked it up probably from the plug like you said, so before I dropped it off at the dealer I NEVER had any kind of oil or other major problem with the car, it has like 80,100 miles on it.

At this point is it worth letting them put a new engine in the car if it comes to that or should I try to get them to give me fair market value for it, or is it worth it at this point to get a lawyer for all the issues I have had?

**Update 2-3-2018:
So good news, when they reviewed the live data today they informed me the fuel trim and something else was off, they are doing something called a full drive cycle where they drive the car, let it sit for 8 hours, then finish the configuration. They informed me that this is something that happens with a new engine, I am not convinced that this is something that can be easily overseen the first time and don't feel I should of had to fight to get this done, I feel it should of been done the first time & I should have my jeep back now. Thanks again for recommending this as I almost had my friend throw those sensors in!

**Update 2-5-2018:
I wanted to post a update since I have my Jeep back now.

So I got it back today & drove about 80 miles & not only is the rough idle gone but no check engine light! The service center said something about the fuel trim being adjusted but did not go into detail, it drives better then ever so I am happy about that. I now have to take back the 2 downstream sensors I purchased thanks to HoosierJeeper stopping me from having my friend put them in just in time (thanks!).

I noticed the front bumper has been buffed which had oil stains on it (I think inleast that is what it looked like) but it is still lightly scuffed up with a few light scratches as well, the front bumper was just replaced and painted in December right before it went over for a oil change & it all began. I am debating on pursuing the bumper at this point since I just got my Jeep back and things are just starting to settle down again for me, but it still remains I am pissed about it. I may call and pursue it but the front grille which had deep scratches in it was painted and is fine now. Thanks everyone!

**Update 2-11-2018:
I have put about 200 miles on my Jeep & still not check engine light & the rough idle is gone & all is well, my Jeep is driving like new & better then before all this happened, thanks again especially HoosierJeeper for the guidance on this & everyone else for the advice! I am hoping to have my Jeep for a long time after all the work was done lol! The final work order came to $6200+!

**Update 3-23-2018:
So my Jeep has been great since I have gotten it back but since I have gotten it back I noticed a slight quiet squeaking noise when driving on 1 way roads with cars on both side or a jersey wall & today when reversing it almost sounds like seagulls squalling underneath. I called she shop and they agreed to look at it next week but any idea what this could be? I had a friend who is also a mechanic look at it and listen under and said it almost sounds like its coming from the center & could be the U Joint. I also wanted to note that in addition to replacing the engine when I first got my Jeep back it would rumble in first gear starting out so they did something with the transfer case or cable (not sure which) and that was corrected before I picked it up the final time. Could the sounds happening now be related to something they did? Thanks for any advice!

**Update 3-27-2018:
Thank you for all this information as it has been extremely helpful! It was in fact the U Joints, they have all been replaced & all is well now, no more noise! While under my Jeep there was a noticeable oil leak coming from the timing cover, I am taking it back to the service center to have it fixed, a little aggravating at this point but it has to be done.

**Update 4-30-2018:
I will be honest, I did not think I would have to re-visit this post. So after getting the U-Joint replaced which did go well we noticed that there was oil accumulating on the underside of my Jeep, after looking closer its hard to tell exactly where its coming from. I am posting a few pictures I took while it was on a lift, needless to say am waiting to hear back from the service center as to where it is coming from.
https://imgur.com/a/GIJQ1mp

Any advice is appreciated, thank you!

**Update 5-1-2018:
Thank you for your input! I got word back today the leak was coming from the timing chain cover. It is being actively fixed & I should get word back soon, thanks!

**Update 5-26-2018:
So it has been a ongoing nightmare with this dealership. Since I last made a comment here some things have happened which I will list below.

1. After having my Jeep back for about 2 weeks I noticed a creaking noise coming from where the shifter is to put my Jeep into gear so I took it back, they informed me the transmission needed to be re-adjusted and they have done so but still the same issue and it gets progressively worst as the Jeep gets warmed up, I can put my hand where the shifter is and feel vibrations coming from the area.

2. The CEL came on after I picked it up 2 weeks ago and they informed me that the CEL ended up being a o2 sensor which they are replacing thankfully, they informed me the ball joints needed to be replaced since I would make a right turn and if there is a drop-off such as going from a parking lot to a road then I would hear a clunking noise coming from the right front tire so I had them replaced, so after having that done the same noise still exists. I am dropping it off on Tuesday to get this looked into further but they informed me that it is the suspension and they looked into it but since the shocks are not leaking or wet that it is nothing to worry about, that leaves me to deal with a clunking noise to deal with each time I make a right turn and there is a slight drop off? Also after driving it this weekend I noticed the noise is also heard but not as loud occasionally when making right turns with no drop off & on a flat surface.

3. Once I drive my jeep for a good while and it is really warmed up there is a loud creaking noise coming from the top right side of the engine compartment, I can not hear it from inside the Jeep when it is running but when I open the door or get out it is very loud and when I pop the hood it is VERY loud. I have brought this up twice to them but they can not seem to reproduce the issue, although every time it is warmed up & driven for about an hour I hear it every time.

4. After picking it up this past Friday and noticing the CEL was on I noticed my window does not go down all the way and get stuck about 25% of the way, after it goes down 25% of the way it grinds. I rolled it down 25% of the way & lightly applied downwards pressure & it rolled down just fine but the problem can be re-produced every time. The window goes up just fine with no hesitation.

5. I noticed the hood had scuffs on it like someone sat something down 2 times in 2 different areas which they have buffed out and it looks alright, although keep in mind my Jeep was recently painted and it does not look the same as before. Also a few months ago when they did the engine they took off my front grille and scuffed that all up which they painted, they took off the front bumper which they buffed although that looks like crap but I let it go.

All of these things in combination with the issues I have had in the past with the engine & everything else is driving me insane! Please bear in mind when I dropped my Jeep off in December I had NO issues with it ever for the most part aside from the average oil change, now that they have been actively working on it I have a new problem every time I pick it up! By now I must have dropped my Jeep off and picked it up a total of 100 times and they have almost had it more this year then me no lie! I am ready to give up on the Jeep even though all of this work has been put into it but I do not think it is worth the stress at this point, I am starting a new job in a week which is a 60 miles drive to and from and need a reliable daily vehicle, since my Jeep has 85,000 miles on it I decided to get a 2015 used sedan but I really want to keep my Jeep and pass it on to my Fiance but I can not put her behind the wheel of a vehicle I do not trust myself! Any input is GREATLY appreciated because I am at my wits end with my Jeep and this dealership.
 
Last edited:

HoosierJeeper

Gold Supporter/Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
20,817
Reaction score
186
Location
Western WI
It's going to need a new engine. With 80000 miles on it, the rest of it is hardly broken in, so it's worth putting a new engine in it. The dealer will likely try to avoid any responsibility. At best, I might see them covering some of it, but I'm guessing it's a $5000+ job. It might be worth talking to an attorney, if it was running fine beforehand.
 

Concerned

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
It's going to need a new engine. With 80000 miles on it, the rest of it is hardly broken in, so it's worth putting a new engine in it. The dealer will likely try to avoid any responsibility. At best, I might see them covering some of it, but I'm guessing it's a $5000+ job. It might be worth talking to an attorney, if it was running fine beforehand.

Let me just say I really appreciate your advice on this especially since vehicle issues and repairs is not my forte! Just out of curiosity is damage like this repairable? I mean can the engine be rebuild or being the damage that is done would they just need to find a low mileage engine that is in good shape? Does the smoking I described coming from the front end and the oil smell sound like they simply forgot to put the drain plug back in? When my friend checked the oil it did not even come up to the dip stick so I am guessing it was bone dry.
 

HoosierJeeper

Gold Supporter/Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
20,817
Reaction score
186
Location
Western WI
No problem! The engine could be rebuilt, if there's not engine block damage...but this one I think I'd be inclined to find another engine. Low mileage engines aren't that hard to find.

They either forgot to tighten the drain plug or oil filter, so that was probably the smoke you saw.
 

JasonJ

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
1,521
Reaction score
50
Location
Michigan
I sure hope you didn't pay them for anything after the initial oil change (or oil drain and no refill, as it seems).
 

Aceofspades

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Messages
775
Reaction score
101
Location
Buffalo
I don’t see how all the other stuff like oil pump and sensor has anything to do with their negligence of letting it leave the shop without OIL! That is what caused your problems and that IS their fault. An oil pump works best when there is oil in the pan...
 

M38 Bob

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Messages
1,069
Reaction score
2
Location
Arkansas
I expect lawyering up will cost more than the price to fix if their lawyers want to postpone/delay for a couple years. My guess, regardless of what's right, is that you're screwed.
 

Concerned

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
I expect lawyering up will cost more than the price to fix if their lawyers want to postpone/delay for a couple years. My guess, regardless of what's right, is that you're screwed.

Thanks for all the help everyone! Spoke with the dealership today & they owned up to the technician not putting oil back in the vehicle.

I have 3 options:
1. Used 100k mile engine no charge.
2. Jasper brand new 0 mile rebuilt engine $1300.
3. Chrysler rebuilt 0 mile engine $1300.

They are waving labor & taking $1700 off of the engine, anyone have any insight?

Honestly to the point where I would like to be done with this, but if anyone else has insight I would appreciate it, they did inform me it takes 14 hours roughly to put it in & the engine runs about $3k, is the price of the engine accurate for a 3 year/100k mile warranty & being rebuild from the block out with new parts?
 
Last edited:

HoosierJeeper

Gold Supporter/Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
20,817
Reaction score
186
Location
Western WI
#2 would be a no from me. #1 I would take if they can get one that's 80k miles or less. I wouldn't accept one with more miles than what I had in it.
 

Concerned

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
#2 would be a no from me. #1 I would take if they can get one that's 80k miles or less. I wouldn't accept one with more miles than what I had in it.

Just curious but you did not say anything about #3, would you take #3 since its Chrysler and they would warranty it for 100k/3 years?
 

jeeper03

Full Access Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
129
Reaction score
31
Location
warrenton Va
I would take #3 with it being the same cost as a jasper engine. I use jasper all the time at work but given the choice I’d rather have a Chrysler engine.
 

HoosierJeeper

Gold Supporter/Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
20,817
Reaction score
186
Location
Western WI
#3 I'd take, guess it's a fair price. What warranty does the used one include?
 

Concerned

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
#3 I'd take, guess it's a fair price. What warranty does the used one include?

There would be a 101 day warranty on the used one, he did not get into specifics as far as exactly how many miles.

I would take #3 with it being the same cost as a jasper engine. I use jasper all the time at work but given the choice I’d rather have a Chrysler engine.

Thanks for your input! I suppose at this point I would not want to take the 100k mile one since I will be dammed if I end up in the same situation in 101 days exactly with my luck lately lol. Just curious but as far as a rebuild that would be certified by Chrysler would it be the same as or better then the OEM one that would be put in when the vehicle is being built?
 
Last edited:

HoosierJeeper

Gold Supporter/Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
20,817
Reaction score
186
Location
Western WI
That's not much for a warranty really...I'm thinking the new Chrysler one is probably the best bet. Buy once cry once LOL

I had a similar dilemma when I needed a new trans, it would've been $3500 for a used one with like 60k miles on it installed with a 6 month warranty or rebuild/upgrade the existing one for $5000 and get a 2 year warranty, I thought $1500 was worth it for something new.
 

Leeann

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
2,434
Reaction score
232
Location
Maryland
What stealership in our wonderful state is this?

You have an 80k mile Jeep, they blew the engine, they want to put a 100k mile engine in it? Um, no.

They can put an 80k or less mile engine in it for FREE. Your engine had no problems until their tech forgot to put oil in after draining. That is entirely their fault and their responsibility. And they get to make your Jeep whole, which means putting in an engine with similar or less mileage. Not more.
 

Concerned

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
What stealership in our wonderful state is this?

You have an 80k mile Jeep, they blew the engine, they want to put a 100k mile engine in it? Um, no.

They can put an 80k or less mile engine in it for FREE. Your engine had no problems until their tech forgot to put oil in after draining. That is entirely their fault and their responsibility. And they get to make your Jeep whole, which means putting in an engine with similar or less mileage. Not more.

I would prefer to leave the location anonymous for reasons of anyone locating the dealership and calling ext, which is unlikely but possible (maybe I am paranoid lol) but I can PM if to you if your curiosity is peaked.

Initially they pulled the oil pan and blamed the problem on sludge until I pushed the fact that no oil was in the engine when I picked it up & the oil pump had already been replaced at this point as well as all parts that had sludge buildup, I may be able to push for a lower mileage engine but honestly I will go into that not knowing the previous history of the engine & the reason the engine is now available from the vehicle its pulled from, I guess it would be a 50/50 split between having a reliable engine that will run for another 100k+ or having a engine that would clonk out in several 1000 miles possible after the 101 day warranty is up.

Would your opinion be to try finding a lower mileage engine & have it put in at no charge or pay the extra $1300 & get something I know is going to last me for years to come?
 

HoosierJeeper

Gold Supporter/Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
20,817
Reaction score
186
Location
Western WI
I would ask for another 80k mileage engine and ask for a 6 month warranty, 6 months is reasonable for a used engine IMO.
 

Concerned

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
I would ask for another 80k mileage engine and ask for a 6 month warranty, 6 months is reasonable for a used engine IMO.

What would you say my chances are I will find a reliable engine that would last me opposed to finding a engine that will possibly fail in me in 6+ months? I suppose it is possible to get the history of the vehicle that it is pulled from but to get previous maintenance records ext. that will probably be unlikely, like I KNOW I changed my oil every 3k and took good care of my engine but I would not be able to say the same once the engine is swapped.
 
Top