2002 3.7 Motor Rattle at 3k

[dscott90000]

Hello.. I just came over here from jeepforum.com. Happy to be here , seems like a good site. I just picked up this 02 Liberty 3.7 L w/ 135k but the title has been rebuilt so who knows.

The motor seems to have a rattle of some sort at 3k rpms. ( It defintly sounds like metal on metal... but goes away after the 3k mark approx**
The only codes I have are three different 02 sensor codes .
The motor currently idles low and some time shuts off at idle as well. Doesnt over heat, no smoke, no burning of oil. There is a slight gas smell / fume smell near the exhaust.. Im thinking the cat could be clogged.. or maybe the 02 sensors are really ******* up the mixture that bad?

GOing to get the thing aligned tomorrow...:mexsmoke:

Ill post updates and some pics of the build soon. This jeep is pretty cool. I have had 2 xjs and a couple yjs previous.

 

[LibertyTC]

Welcomed to the forum.
What are the code #s?
NTK by NGK sensors are what you need /use.
Rattle where does it seem the noise is coming from? Got an auto stethoscope?
Replace the spark plugs with copper core Champion/NGK as per under hood recommendations.
Low RPM- what is the idle rpm when warm? Check IAC /clean for free pintle operation & get carbon out of ports.
May want to check fuel pressure at rail & ensure no misfire codes.

 

[renegade 04]

A rattle can sometimes be caused by a bad motor mount.

 

[ltd02]

You sure it's a motor rattle and not a cat with a busted up catalyst.

 

[dscott90000]

Welcomed to the forum.
What are the code #s?
NTK by NGK sensors are what you need /use.
Rattle where does it seem the noise is coming from? Got an auto stethoscope?
Replace the spark plugs with copper core Champion/NGK as per under hood recommendations.
Low RPM- what is the idle rpm when warm? Check IAC /clean for free pintle operation & get carbon out of ports.
May want to check fuel pressure at rail & ensure no misfire codes.

Codes are P0155, P0138, P0158
Noise seems to be coming from the front of the vehicle when sitting inside of it.
Low RPM its resting at about 500 then will shut off if I tap and release the gas drastically.

Motor mount... hmmm.. And maybe it only rattle at 3k rpms because thats the most viberation

 

[LibertyTC]

You could get a better idea where it is coming from by having jeep in park & raise the throttle from under the hood just for a short burst.. Or have someone do it from inside by the gas pedal & have a look/listen around. Or does it just do it under a driven load?
If you are smelling gas from tail pipe you may want to address the sensors ASAP.
Too rich a fuel mixture can damage the cats & it probably wont run right anyways until you do get new sensors installed. Also do get to the IAC cleaning & the ports using TB Cleaner.

 

[dscott90000]

You could get a better idea where it is coming from by having jeep in park & raise the throttle from under the hood just for a short burst.. Or have someone do it from inside by the gas pedal & have a look/listen around. Or does it just do it under a driven load?
If you are smelling gas from tail pipe you may want to address the sensors ASAP.
Too rich a fuel mixture can damage the cats & it probably wont run right anyways until you do get new sensors installed. Also do get to the IAC cleaning & the ports using TB Cleaner.

It does it under load and in neutral.

Ya I wanted to buy two upstream 02 sensors from autozone today but I want to check out the cat converter first..

Or Should i just buy and install a couple upstreams...or is all four completely necessary. What tools would I need to get off the 02 sensors ? and where are the upstreams? Closer to the motor?

 

[LibertyTC]

I have not had to replace mine (touch wood) Clunk on head..:icon_lol:
There are four as far as I know, two upstream & two downstream from the cats.
Tools will let others elaborate on this job. My thought is if a couple are going do them all at once and be done with it.
If I can quote TJKJ for a second here (hope u dont mind Troy...)
OE is either Denso or NTK(NGK). Chrysler and Bosch plugs or O2 sensors do not play well with each other, the Bosch O2's do not switch fast enough more the majority of Chrysler PCM's. Get the NTK O2's,they are a lot better then the Bosch junk by far.
So I hope You Buy these..LINK: NTK Oxygen Sensors
You Can use the Parts finder along the top for exact replacement #s.
Hope this helps. arty52:

 

[tommudd]

It does it under load and in neutral.

Ya I wanted to buy two upstream 02 sensors from autozone today but I want to check out the cat converter first..

Or Should i just buy and install a couple upstreams...or is all four completely necessary. What tools would I need to get off the 02 sensors ? and where are the upstreams? Closer to the motor?

Au**zone is a great place to buy wax and cleaning supplies, NOTHING ELSE!:icon_lol:
You have codes from 2/1, 1/2 and 2/2 so I would replace all 4 as the other is more than likely weak as well
Go with quality ones and forget all of the places that should only being selling wax

Now as far as the rattle are you sure its not the idler pulleys ? I have heard them rattle pretty good before.
Could remove belt for just a bit to eliminate the tensioner and pulleys. If its bad then replace the whole thing just not the pulleys
Check the Cats ( when cool ) just hit them with your hand, mine rattle when idling and the insides had went south. I could bang my hand on it and get it to rattle

 

[dscott90000]

Just cleaned the IAC valve... thing was fithy . She idles allot better now... a littler peppier throttle too.

OK now onto the 02 sensors... How hard are these sobs to get off?

Biggest tire for stock..

 

[tommudd]

Just cleaned the IAC valve... thing was fithy . She idles allot better now... a littler peppier throttle too.

OK now onto the 02 sensors... How hard are these sobs to get off?

Any one running a 265/70/18 on stock rims with a 4x4 model? 2002

Not that hard to do really, spray them down good when hot and let it soak in
Do you mean 265-70-16s ?? I assume Not going to happen on 12 year old KJ , well not even a brand new since 245-70-16s would rub some. 265-70-16s takes some lift of about 2.5 inches at least

 

[dscott90000]

Ok I will be attacking the 02 sensors asap... So damn pricey.

UPDATE: Cleaned the IAC valve with carb cleaner... and now the throttle seems to stick at 1500 rpms occasionally.. the only way to get unstuck is to tap the gas...

However it does start slightly better after the clean... and seems to idle a bit better too. Just the sticking is occuring randomely now..:shrug:

 

[LibertyTC]

Chances are is that the throttle plate/butterfly inside the throttle body is sticking and also in need of a clean up.
Remove the air intake hose going into throttle body and without jeep running observe/check the movement of the butterfly by opening & closing the throttle by rotating throttle mounted on the side.
If its dirty clean it. I used a Precision TIP Q-Tip on the outer inside edge soaked with Carb cleaner to get the gunk off the sides of plate.
Edit in a photo,,Wow I need to shoot some photos..had to borrow this one from google..
50819[/ATTACH]"]

You must be registered for see images attach

I also use a sniff of fine trumpet oil to the outer edge of butterfly plate to ensure nothing was sticking afterwards.
The stock throttle bodies fit & finish is certainly not port & polished !
I think I am going to take mine off in the spring a do a little 2000 grit emery cloth work & add in some of my own Dremel polishing!


BTW if you find this post or any of mine useful..Please feel free to Send me a cash Donation!
Just PM me to help! (just kidding )
Although..,,MY jeep is Constantly in need of Cash!! :icon_twisted: :icon_lol:

 

[dscott90000]

Ok I will attack that asap. Thanks LibertyTC.

Now onto the next ... PCV SYSTEM! How do I clean this? Where is it at ? Tools required?

 

[LibertyTC]

Part of the PCV is Mr Sponge Bob inside The Air filter housing. The hose then routes to the actual PCV.
Ensure the air box interior & filter is clean as well as Mr Sponge Bob. Soap & water can be used on him.
You can remove the air filter box for cleaning as well by removing the exterior hose & pulling up ******* the air box base. It is only held in by plastic inserts into rubber grommets. Easy & safe to re-install.
I'll have one out in a minute!
50821[/ATTACH]"]

You must be registered for see images attach

Here explains the PCV fairly Well I think....
50823[/ATTACH]"]

You must be registered for see images attach

Also hold onto PCV When Removing the Hose.
We dont want to hear anything go snap-crackle-Pop. This aint cereal were working on here....
Remember plastic is fragile when cold.
Hope this helps ! arty52:

 

[uss2defiant]

Ok I will attack that asap. Thanks LibertyTC.

Now onto the next ... PCV SYSTEM! How do I clean this? Where is it at ? Tools required?

It's a cheap enough part. buy a brand new one

Not all jeeps have mr. sponge. Mine does not have one.

MOPAR part number is 53032800AA
can get it from here w/ free shipping
http://www.avondalewholesaleparts.c...A&make=Jeep&action=oePartSearch&siteid=214606

 

[LibertyTC]

Geez I thought he had an 04...oh well close enough...LOL...You are right earlier models dont have him.
I would not know what to do If I did not have Mr.Sponge Bob to talk to while I do my tune ups! screwy.gif :icon_lol:

 

[dscott90000]

Bosch 02 sensors... Whats wrong with em?

 

[dscott90000]

Ok I changed 3 of the four 02 sensors but the one way up on the drivers side...(Guessing thats an upstream) is impossible to get to. Even the clip is impossible. I have a 4x4 and that stuff is all in the way.

Also got a starter off the guy but the 4x4 is in the way to get that out as well....any one change any of these on a 4x4 yet?

FOund a misterious ground wire clipped and followed it back to the engine bay... ( It connects to the fire wall above the engine... kinda right behind the Throttle body but to the right a bit... Where does the other end go to?? Its a pretty small ground wire.. Im thinking stereo equip possibly...

 

[uss2defiant]

pictures could help