‘11 KK Fast Crank, No Start after accident

the_pro_am

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Hi All, newbie here. Of course I come with problems looking for help lol Plowed into Bambi at 45mph. No airbags, destroyed grill, condenser/radiator. Fan shroud pushed into ps pulley and idler pulley, breaking them. Threw the belt. Drove it a few miles to a safe spot. Left the hazards on, batt Died. Towed home, charged battery, now it tip starts. Fast crank makes me Think good compression, I hear the fuel pump/smell a little gas for the tail. I’m leaning towards an electrical cause but not sure where to start poking around. Did swap starter relay but no change. Any help is appreciated! TIA
 
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LibertyTC

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Welcome. Oh deer- Bad Bambi !!
Sorry to hear about the collision.
Can your insurance cover this?

We recently have had a few members with deer collisions- eek.
The large wiring loom/ bundle that runs behind the front cross member was damaged by one of our members in a recent deer impact.
 

the_pro_am

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Parts damage is around my deductible cost. Mechanically it ran like a top before the accident. Always fired up first shot. I just assumed it would after replacing pulleys. I didn’t see any damaged wiring, the grill and all behind it, except the fan, took the brunt of the damage.
 

the_pro_am

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Battery is showing 12.8v, but the engine still turns over?? Going to pull it & have it tested. All the fuses and relays were good. Something arc’d out when I tried my Schumacher booster. .
 
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DadOSix

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Going off of LibertyTc’s statement about the front end harness:

if your grille / rad / condenser / fan were involved, this might be hidden damage below the obvious.

was there no bumper damage at all? Could the grille have taken out wiring?

diagnose what you do have. Fuel - odor. Battery - fast crank, you have enough to run the electronics.

check engine light? If yes, what codes? If not, your next move might be a test light / volt meter to see if you have 12v at the coils, crank and cam sensors.

with enough impact to shove the shroud into the pulleys, there is likely wiring that got severed.

i realize you have a kk, mine is kj, but cramk sensor wiring travels down over the right valve cover and down the front of the engine before snaking its way to the crank sensor.

often, these wiring issues will not throw a code / set CEL.

keep us updated to what you find please!
 

the_pro_am

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Going off of LibertyTc’s statement about the front end harness:

if your grille / rad / condenser / fan were involved, this might be hidden damage below the obvious.

was there no bumper damage at all? Could the grille have taken out wiring?

diagnose what you do have. Fuel - odor. Battery - fast crank, you have enough to run the electronics.

check engine light? If yes, what codes? If not, your next move might be a test light / volt meter to see if you have 12v at the coils, crank and cam sensors.

with enough impact to shove the shroud into the pulleys, there is likely wiring that got severed.

i realize you have a kk, mine is kj, but cramk sensor wiring travels down over the right valve cover and down the front of the engine before snaking its way to the crank sensor.

often, these wiring issues will not throw a code / set CEL.

keep us updated to what you find please!
The bumper wasn’t that bad, the energy absorber got crushed in the middle. Crossmembers and metal are all in good shape. My ac lines, coolant res, ps lines, all good, not even a ding. I’m leaning that there’s no spark, because it doesn’t even cough off. Only codes are low coolant and low voltage.
 

the_pro_am

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The harness appears good, nothing on either side is damaged or pulled. Nothing touched the backside of it, still clipped in. I did pull the cam position sensor and it smelled awful. The over heat cooked the oil, no signs of blown head gasket though. I checked and am getting 5vdc to the harness for the cam p sensor. Going to replace it & crank p sensor just to rule them out.
 

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the_pro_am

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Nope. LOL
Good battery, fuel, but not sparking off. Only things I can think of at this point are TIPM or PCM. .
 

DadOSix

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Please rent / borrow / steal a scanner that does real time data.

Look at the PIDs that are associated with making spark.
Do you get data that supports the crank / cam / sensors operating correctly.

What kind of pressure is the fuel pump making.

Maf sensor.
Ect sensor.
Air temp sensor.

Maybe billwill can jump back in here and guide us to what all we need for spark.

Some piece of data is not telling the ecm to get busy and fire.

More detail on the over heat please? No mention in OP.
 

the_pro_am

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Please rent / borrow / steal a scanner that does real time data.

Look at the PIDs that are associated with making spark.
Do you get data that supports the crank / cam / sensors operating correctly.

What kind of pressure is the fuel pump making.

Maf sensor.
Ect sensor.
Air temp sensor.

Maybe billwill can jump back in here and guide us to what all we need for spark.

Some piece of data is not telling the ecm to get busy and fire.

More detail on the over heat please? No mention in OP.
So basically Bambi cratered my grill into the rad/ac condenser. Enough to push the shroud back & hit the ps pulley & idler pulley. That threw the belt. I drove it a few miles to a safe spot. It was hot, radiator was steaming, but I didn’t think it was that bad, but an overheat in my book. I left the hazards on, called a tow, it was 2-3 hours so I got a ride. Got it home, charged it, surveyed the damage and ordered parts.

The harness runs across the upper core support, it’s visually fine. After installing new pulleys & belt, it just cranks fast. I smell gas from the tail so it’s getting fuel. I put in new cam/crank pos sensors jic they got cooked and went bad. Still just spins over. Doesn’t even cough or anything. So the only thing that changed besides the “minor” damage was it won’t fire off. Only codes I saw were low voltage & low coolant temp. Checked all the fuses at the TIPM & swapped fuel pump relay and all was good. So “I” think it has to be something electronic because I Never had a problem before. And I could see a coil or two going bad, but it Should start & run like ****. It should at least cough and stutter turning over. But I can’t seem to find much in the way of troubleshooting. I called a friend who’s a service manager at a Jeep dealer and he says they can’t test TIMP or PCM, & to smack the TIMP a couple times LOL
 

the_pro_am

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Just found this gem:



ASD relay wackiness on the start circuit. Shuts down fuel pump. Kills spark. Wont allow spark if cam or crank sensors are erratic.


Well, there’s some new developments. . . LOL
Went to swap asd relay, and check the asd fuses. Something arc’d/popped and smoked as I turned it over, can’t see any evidence but it’s either the TIPM or loom that goes to it. The loom has zero physical damage to it that I can see. I had already checked ground from battery & power and ground at TIPM. So my guess is there’s a short in either the TIPM or PCM & it’s taking one/other out, or there’s a short in the loom that’s causing the issue.
 

DadOSix

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So - maybe ole Bambi did cause some wiring issues!
If you had an arc/pop, that says to me you’ve got a short to ground.

Grab your meter or test light and check those fuses in the tipm.
Should be an open one now.
Great job so far.

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Have a look at this video. The guy shows a bit about how asd should work.

Final thought - since the fan / shroud was rammed back, i will suggest to start at the fan connector and work backwards thru the loom. Peel it open a bit and look and feel those wires in that section.
 
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JMichael2006

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With the sparking, the problem is ground related, but also check your Fuel Cut-Off switch in the right hand "A" pillar kick panel. They shut off the fuel in an impact and can be reset. Remove the right kick panel, on the base of the A pillar you will find a switch, on top of it is a button to push like a Circuit breaker.
 
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