crankshaft position sensor - you gotta be kidding me

[johnnygrace]

So I've been working on this for hours....a few last night, a few more tonight, the thing wouldn't budge. Of course I broke the head off and kept breaking pieces off, then tonight as I was scraping around it, spraying it, and trying to drill holes I finally revealed the gasket, then was able to dig a piece out and slowly I was able to work the whole gasket out from around the sensor. I thought I was home free, but I was wrong. The damn thing moves in and out about 1/4" and spins all the way around, I have a screw in it at an angle, but I can't pull it out. I have no idea what to do now? It's as if the plastic in front of the gasket is deformed or something???

Anyone have any advice? I don't think I can bear the thought of pulling the oil pan. In fact I don't even know if I could do it......?

 

[ltd02]

Is the screw secure? Can you get a pair of visegrips (I'm sort of thinking of the long nose variety) in there and use them as a contact point for a small prybar or large screwdriver? Like you said, it should just slide straight out.

 

[johnnygrace]

Is the screw secure? Can you get a pair of visegrips (I'm sort of thinking of the long nose variety) in there and use them as a contact point for a small prybar or large screwdriver? Like you said, it should just slide straight out.

I tried that once and the screw puled out. I think my problem is because I have the screw in at an extreme angle, when I pry on it outward it rips through the plastic. I think maybe the key to this is a right hand drill so you can put a screw in straight. I'm going to try and pick something up tomorrow I just can't believe it's so hard to pull out even though it's spinning in the socket.

 

[ltd02]

I tried that once and the screw puled out. I think my problem is because I have the screw in at an extreme angle, when I pry on it outward it rips through the plastic. I think maybe the key to this is a right hand drill so you can put a screw in straight. I'm going to try and pick something up tomorrow I just can't believe it's so hard to pull out even though it's spinning in the socket.

If you can see the O-ring gasket, can you use that depression as a pry point? Guess the trick is not to break it off so it falls in. Might have to start gently and spin it to see if you can find the right spot in the distortion to allow it to move out with the pry point on one side. If it is a mushroom like distortion then you are screwed and brute force is all you have. I had a similar problem removing my upper intake on my ford ranger. The EGR tube went in and turned but nowhere did it say or show that. I finally pulled the TB and could see the bend then lifted it off while tilting the plenum and it came out.

I have to admit I never removed my crank sensor but I have pulled my cam sensor when I had my heads resurfaced and they are similar designs. It was a bit tricky to get leverage but it did pull straight out. Nothing like you are experiencing. :shrug:

 

[CactusJacked]

Assuming this is a 3.7, nothing will fall in since the cps drops down from underneath the engine. It's a hunk of plastic, can't imagine what could allow it to be such a wedge fit. Once you're dropped past the o-ring point it should come right out. At least you have the o-ring groove exposed to use as a pry point as ltd02 suggested.

 

[johnnygrace]

Assuming this is a 3.7, nothing will fall in since the cps drops down from underneath the engine. It's a hunk of plastic, can't imagine what could allow it to be such a wedge fit. Once you're dropped past the o-ring point it should come right out. At least you have the o-ring groove exposed to use as a pry point as ltd02 suggested.

I can't imagine what's holding it in the hole either. Maybe the rust that was on the outside of the o-ring is stopping it from coming out. I'll try getting some sandpaper in the bore to see if I can make a little room. I'm going to go get a right angle drill attachment at the HD so I can get a proper straight in position on the screw. I have a good prybar with a place mid-tool to trap a screw head so I have great leverage with that, just worried if I keep ripping the screw out, nothing left to screw into/grab onto.

I was trying to find a cross-cut view diagram of that part of the engine to see what was happening inside the hole. Are you saying there isn't enough room for the magnet to fall off the front of the sensor? People working on other cars mentioned it falling into the oil pan or having to remove the oil pan to push from inside. It doesn't even seem like removing the oil pan is possible, for me at least, with a 4wd 3.7L 2004 Liberty. Maybe if the magnet fell off down into the oil pan I could fish it out but don't think I could pull the whole pan off and access the CPS from inside.

 

[johnnygrace]

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!

Well I got it out. Turns out the sensor is too big for the hole. That makes sense. Anyhow I've attached a picture for fun. I didn't end up needing a right angle drill for anyone wondering. If you don't have one I think you would be okay.

The screw it's attached too is the second one I tried, the first pulled out, then I put this one in and went deeper with it. Really deep almost to the point where I thought I was going to just break the plastic and all would be lost. I used the forked end of a pry bar to wedge in the screw threads as close to the plastic as possible. Then I levered it down and was able to pop the sensor out. It took a LOT of force and I could easily have seen this go south had the screw not held in the rotten plastic.

So if you are having this problem like me I suggest blasting with anti-seize. If it still won't budge try to get a screw into it at the angle that's possible then try the pry method. If you are able to dig down enough around the edges to reveal the gasket and pull it out from around the sensor body that's good but really it was the corrosion around where the gasket had been that kept the sensor body from pulling out. Freeing the gasket got it moving but the small lip created through numerous Michigan winters is what kept it from pulling out. Getting the new one in was also a pain in the ass. I really had to screw it in and bang on it a little to get it flush.

In hindsight the $275 the dealer wanted to change this and the cam sensor wasn't too bad although I'm sure they would have wanted more once they started working on it.

 

[ltd02]

Good job! Man that thing is pretty nasty looking especially below where the gasket would have been. Looks like it must have swollen up for some reason? I think the screw idea was a great one.

 

[tjkj2002]

Oil sludge buildup,that is why it was hard to get out.

 

[johnnygrace]

Oil sludge buildup,that is why it was hard to get out.

Yeah definitely that and corrosion from 8 years when it lived in Michigan. I could feel a lip with my finger just about behind where the gasket sits inside the bore.

I will say however I think this sensor replacement in combination with replacing the cam position sensor has fixed my problems. Those problems being a rough idle, slow gear changes, and the engine choking itself out on start-up twice. It would choke itself out about 6 times before starting. I didn't ever stall which is nice but that seems like a common symptom of this sensor being bad. The code for the sensor was thrown once 300 miles before the fix so. I had the jeep at a stealership for the trailer hitch recall and they diagnosed the sensor(s) as the most likely culprit for my problem. And of course they happily charged me $135 for that diagnosis.....makes sense, hooking my car up to a code reader for 2 minutes...must have been a lot of work for them.

 

[tjkj2002]

And of course they happily charged me $135 for that diagnosis.....makes sense, hooking my car up to a code reader for 2 minutes...must have been a lot of work for them.

Have any idea how much those high end scanners cost? Brand new OEM scanners can top $8000+ and Snap On scanners can top $12,000+.Then you got $600 per year updates(per scanner and some dealers will have many scanners).


My budget minded Snap On scanner(Solus Ultra) with European and all OBDI connectors was $5400,and that's the budget minded scanner,and of course $600 per year updates.

 

[smittyfromPA]

I bought an ELM327 WiFi OBD2 OBDII scanner for $22 and a few iPhone apps for $5-$10 each. Although I'm guessing the professional ones can do more?

 

[profdlp]

I bought an ELM327 WiFi OBD2 OBDII scanner for $22 and a few iPhone apps for $5-$10 each. Although I'm guessing the professional ones can do more?

I have one like yours. It tells you codes and can clear them. The pro ones let you actually program stuff. It's like the difference between the free pdf reader and the pro ($100) pdf writer for your computer.

 

[tjkj2002]

I have one like yours. It tells you codes and can clear them. The pro ones let you actually program stuff. It's like the difference between the free pdf reader and the pro ($100) pdf writer for your computer.

No $100 code reader will allow you to program a vehicles PCM,the cheapest on the market starts at about $1500 for a actual programmer(not to be confused with something from hypertech and such).

 

[nullptr]

I bought an ELM327 WiFi OBD2 OBDII scanner for $22 and a few iPhone apps for $5-$10 each. Although I'm guessing the professional ones can do more?

I've got pretty much the same setup, except mine is bluetooth.

So far, it's read and cleared codes from everything I've plugged it into. :shrug:

Have to say I've been happy with the purchase.

 

[profdlp]

No $100 code reader will allow you to program a vehicles PCM,the cheapest on the market starts at about $1500 for a actual programmer(not to be confused with something from hypertech and such).

I was making an analogy using free (limited) software and expensive (more powerful) software as a comparison to onboard computer readers and onboard computer programmers.

A pro pdf writer: PDF Writer Pro - Order page

My point was that while it's relatively easy to get data out, putting data in requires something more in most cases.

 

[tjkj2002]

My point was that while it's relatively easy to get data out, putting data in requires something more in most cases.

Get a real scanner and the amount of data you can access is a lot more then even your $500 code pullers. Manufactures only have to allow access to generic P codes and mode 6 by federal law,everything else that tool company(thatmakes the scanner/code puller) has to buy the rights to access PID's which does increase the prices.




I have a entry level high end scanner(snap on Solus Ultra) and the difference is amazing even compared to the highest end OTC scanners.I can even change setting for some things on a lot of vehicles(I can change my rear ride height on my Town Car as 1 example).Granted not cheap,about $5k all said and done with European and OBDI.

 

[profdlp]

Yeah, but can it format a .docx document for publication with embedded graphics and hyperlinks and not lose any metadata?