Shellzone antifreeze? Anyone know what this stuff is?

[Keseleth]

Hey all,

My KJ gave me a nasty surprise on Friday, and I had to have a new radiator, thermostat, and trans cooler hose put in. Now that I've got it home, I was going to finish the job by replacing the radiator hoses and water pump myself, but I discovered that the shop put in 'Shellzone Multi-Vehicle antifreeze.'

I've never heard of this stuff, and as I need to replace the water pump, I need to know if I can just top it off with Zerex when I swap out the pump, or if they put in the wrong type. :shrug:

Any help would be much appreciated!

For the curious, I was driving to work when smoke starting coming from under the hood. Popping the hood revealed fluid all over the bottom of the engine compartment and continuing to pour onto the ground. I couldn't see where it was coming from, so I hopped back in and chanced a drive to a nearby shop (a Brakemax). They took a look and discovered my transmission cooler hose had burst a hole in the side, my radiator had cracked, the water pump was leaking, and the radiator hoses were bulging. There had been no check-engine light, no funny sounds, no indicators of any kind that something was wrong beforehand. :mad3:

They quoted me $1400-ish to fix everything. I've got zero money, so I told them to just fix it enough so I could hobble it home, and I'd do the rest myself. That dropped it to $965 (Gah! kill me kill me kill me....), which I had to use plastic money for. Then, as I'm looking for a good deal on Zerex G-05, I decide to check what the shop put in, and here I am. Oh yes... when I arrived at the shop, I locked my keys in the Jeep. So, that was my Friday.

Anyway, thanks again for any help.

*2003 4x4 Renegade 3.7L V6*

 

[LibertyTC]

The Jeep as you know requires HOAT coolant. Zerex G05 is Hoat.
What the shop used was wrong, and the whole system should be flushed out..EEK~!
Reg tap water flush in system is not good.
The dealer has the correct re-circulating machine, to get all the bad stuff out.
Always know before you go...into a shop..dont let em F things up!

 

[profdlp]

^ What he said.

 

[uss2defiant]

agh..... I would have totally helped tow strapped you back home.
sorry, I couldn't find anything specific online on that shell coolant.

 

[M38 Bob]

Shellzone meets MOPAR/Chrysler MS-7170 requirements.

Bob

 

[tjkj2002]

Shellzone meets MOPAR/Chrysler MS-7170 requirements.

Bob

To bad he needs coolant that meets MS-9769 spec.

 

[LibertyTC]

Shell is OAT..the G05 is HOAT ..you don't ever mix them together...that aint no joke! :gr_grin:

 

[tjkj2002]

Shell is OAT..the G05 is HOAT ..you don't ever mix them together...that aint no joke! :gr_grin:

^^^^This^^^^


Be aware that Chrysler switched to OAT coolant for model year '13+ vehicles so make sure you get the correct coolant even if your getting it from the dealership.

 

[Keseleth]

Thanks all!
I called the shop today and they kept telling me that the Shellzone met and exceeded Chrysler specs, that it'd been approved for use in my Jeep, that they had to do tons of research before a coolant was OK'd... yadda yadda.... But, they are getting the HOAT coolant from the dealer, and will change it out for me tomorrow.

Gah...I just don't get it. Why would Chrysler OK something that would eventually damage the vehicle? Why all the mis-information? It's crazy!
Oh yes...I think they might've put the wrong ****** fluid in, too (Performance 500 Multi-Vehicle ATF). This craziness is why I try to fix whatever I can, myself.

Anyone know any details on what exactly the OAT stuff does to HOAT systems? I saw somewhere that it corrodes the plastic impeller (my new one is metal, though), and other metal elsewhere. I'm hoping to find out more, because I'm sure the shop will try to 'explain' that the Shellzone is ok again.

Anyway, thanks again for all your help!

 

[LibertyTC]

What kinda shop would also use the wrong transmission fluid? ATF+4 only in auto KJ!!
Hoat from dealer may be 100 % strength & probably has to be mixed down with distilled water ONLY!
But that is just the beginning...
How is the shop going to completely remove the OAT?
Without a re-circulating machine..you can't get it all out! Lots remains in block, unless you pull frost plugs.
It is not a compatible mix, completely different additive package for corrosion, could harm seals & a plastic impeller on water pump, could get damaged..
If that was my Jeep. it would be outta there!!
In to a dealer & get them to flush/ refill both the Trans fluid & coolant...no exception.
I would then get the bill & deal with the other shop later.....

 

[tjkj2002]

Some light reading.................

Frequently asked questions regarding Zerex G-05®
- What is unique about Zerex G-05?
Zerex G-05 is an ethylene glycol based coolant with an HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) inhibitor package. It is phosphate free, fully formulated (contains nitrite) and protects against hard water deposits and corrosion. As a testament to the quality, Mercedes has been using this formula for over 20 years.
- What is a HOAT coolant and why is it different from conventional and extended life coolants?
An HOAT coolant uses both inorganic and organic inhibitors. HOAT coolants offer the best of all technologies for both immediate and long lasting protection. Inorganic inhibitors provide fast acting aluminum engine protection from boiling and erosion while the organic materials offer non-depleting, long term protection.
- What vehicles use Zerex G-05 in the factory fill and what is the dye color?
1984 Mercedes and beyond (light yellow)
1990 Deere and Company vehicles and beyond (green)
2001 Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep and beyond (orange)
2002 Ford, Lincoln and Mercury trucks and SUVS and beyond (yellow)
2003 Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury automobiles and beyond (yellow)
- What aftermarket products are approved by Ford and Chrysler?
Ford, Lincoln, Mercury brands - Ford Motorcraft Gold and Zerex G-05
Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep brands –Mopar 5/100 Antifreeze and Zerex G-05
- What is the difference between these products?
All products use the Zerex G-05 formulation. The only difference is the dye color.
- Are extended life coolants compatible with G-05? And vice versa?
Mix coolant types in an emergency but for optimum long life protection it is best to use the OEM recommended fluid exclusively.
- Can you use an extended life coolant in a Ford and Chrysler vehicle?
Both the Ford and Chrysler owners’ manuals do not recommend using unapproved extended life products such as DEX-COOL or equivalents in their vehicles and state that improper maintenance may invalidate the warranty of the cooling system. In addition, many vehicles are not designed for DEX-COOL or equivalent organic acid, extended life coolants. For example DaimlerChrysler is reported to have experienced solder corrosion issues in heater cores with some DEX-COOL type fluids.
- Can you use Zerex G-05 in a GM Vehicle?
While one can use Zerex G-05 in a GM vehicle, Valvoline recommends that you use a GM DEX-COOL approved formula in a GM vehicle under warranty.
- Can Zerex G-05 be used in diesel applications?
Yes. Zerex G-05 is a fully formulated (nitrite containing) coolant that will help protect diesel engine cylinder liners from pitting corrosion. It has also been approved by Cummins and Deere & Company.
- Is it safe to use Zerex G-05 in European and Japanese manufactured vehicles?
Zerex G-05 is compatible with Japanese and European cooling systems as an aftermarket equivalent.
Consult the owner’s manual for manufacturer recommendations and warranty information.

 

[tjkj2002]

And some more little light reading.........

Q8: Okay, the Chrysler’s recommendation up to year 2002 says ethylene glycol. Isn’t that the traditional “green stuff” that has been around for years?

A8: Yes, just be sure to use a low-silicate antifreeze per ASTM D-4985/GM6038M and ASTM D-3306.

Q9: Why all of the fuss over low silicates?

A9: The good old green stuff is known as inorganic additive technology (IAT). The IAT coolants have been around for generations. They contain silicates that form a protective barrier on everything in the cooling system, even rubber hoses.

Silicates plate-out quickly on metal engine parts; thus the silicates in a coolant solution can drop to less than 20 percent of the starting level in less than 10,000 miles. Another problem with silicates is that, under certain conditions, they can drop out of the solution and form minute deposits.

If this occurs between the shaft and seal of your water pump, the resulting abrasion will eventually cause a leak. In a cooling system that turns off coolant flow to the heater core when the heater is not in use, silicates can form a gummy deposit that, over the course of a summer season, might clog the core tubes.

So why even use silicates? Because they’re really good at what they do, especially in iron block/aluminum head engines. That’s why some manufacturers still specify using coolants with silicate corrosion inhibitors.(2)

Q10: So I understand that the green stuff (an ethylene glycol, EG, IAT, silicate formula) antifreezes need more frequent servicing as they plate-out as they provide a protective barrier to corrosion. How about Chrysler’s recommendation for the ’03-’08 cooling systems of a hybrid organic additive technology (HOAT) that is good for 5years/100,000 miles? What is HOAT?

A10: While there are some minor variations, there are three basic types of coolant available today: inorganic additive technology (IAT– typically dyed green), organic additive technology (OAT – typically dyed orange), and hybrid organic additive technology (HOAT – typically dyed yellow). To some extent, each will work in any cooling system, but each has been developed to meet car manufacturers’ specific needs for warranty and/or maintenance intervals. Filling a vehicle that was designed for one type of coolant with another type can sometimes cause problems, and if you mix-and-match coolants the same corrosion protection as the initial factory fill shouldn’t be expected.(2)

To understand Chrysler’s recommendation of hybrid organic additive technology (HOAT), one must first understand the silicate-free OAT antifreeze. The newer OAT coolants work differently than the older silicate, ethylene glycol, IAT coolants (the green stuff). Aluminum and ferrous metals form a surface-layer of corrosion in the presence of moisture, even the little bit of moisture in the air. OAT coolants anneal this metal-oxide layer into a thin surface coating that protects against further corrosion. Inherent with their design, the OAT coolants last longer than the old green-stuff IAT coolants. Regardless, with either type of inhibitor, there must be enough in the coolant solution to occasionally re-establish the barrier as needed.

It took almost 20 years of OAT development to make a coolant that would effectively protect against corrosion without using silicates at all.

As a bridge between OAT and IAT there are the hybrid coolants (HOAT) that use both silicate and organic acid corrosion inhibitors. HOAT type coolants are the factory fill for many OEM vehicles.2 Your ’03-’08 Turbo Diesel uses HOAT.

Q11: How much of the coolant is actually additives?

A11: With all of the discussion about IAT, OAT and HOAT, you’ll be surprised to know that the corrosion protection percentage of the mixture (matters not if it is EG or PG) is usually less than 4%, meaning the true “antifreeze” or glycol portion is 96%.

Q12: Is there a one-size-fits all coolant?

A12: To quote Dr. Paul Fritz, senior coolants technologist for ChevronTexaco Products Co., “Nothing bad will happen” when two brand-name coolants with different corrosion inhibitor technologies are mixed. By this he means that no sludge will form, there will be no damaging chemical reactions and the coolant will still carry heat
and protect against freezing.

However, when adding an IAT to an OAT system, the recommended coolant change interval will degrade to that of the shorter-life coolant. Typically, when the mixture stays below 25 percent new coolant on top of 75 percent of the original coolant, the corrosion protection performance will remain that of the original coolant. But as the mix of coolant technologies deepens—that is, if a cooling system has a slow leak and it’s continually topped off with a type of coolant that’s different from what is already in there—eventually the original corrosion inhibitor will be replaced by the new corrosion inhibitor. This will determine the resulting mixture’s overall performance. If someone continues to top off a five-year coolant with a two-year coolant, the resulting coolant mixture should now be changed every two years.

But you should not mix-and-match. According to Dr. David Turcotte of Valvoline Co., cooling systems are mechanically designed to work with specific types of coolant.

Filling a system with the wrong coolant could cause problems. In a 300-hour test of OAT coolant in a Ford engine designed for HOAT coolant, the water pump impellor and backing plate were seriously damaged by cavitation corrosion.

Turcotte and Fritz both said that it’s not possible to have one product that meets the coolant requirements of all the different automakers. Because some OEMs require silicate-free coolant and others mandate the presence of silicate, “one size does not fit all.”2

Q13: What coolant should I use?

A13: Looks like we’ve done a complete 360° walk around the block (cylinder block, that is). Please see the reprinted table that Andy Redmond provided in Issue 54. The short answer: Chrysler specification MSS-9769, HOAT coolant which is backward compatible to all years of the Turbo Diesel. That’s right, use the yellow stuff after you drain the green stuff. And, thankfully we do not have to be concerned with cavitation erosion.

 

[profdlp]

...Gah...I just don't get it. Why would Chrysler OK something that would eventually damage the vehicle?...

That's how the place that did my cooling system flush when I first bought mine got away with it. Yeah, Chrysler OK'd it, but not specifically for the Liberty.

Think of it this way: Milk is not poisonous to human beings. Doctors even recommend it for small children. If you happen to be lactose intolerant though... :blah: