PLEASE HELP! Liberty 2005 won't start -- street cleaning tomorrow

[DutchlandDiesel]

Hi,

I can't even fathom how many threads like this exist...actually, I can, because I've read them all. My Jeep Liberty 2005 is parked outside my apartment and it's street cleaning tomorrow, and I want to avoid getting tickets, then boot...

THE STARTER
So trying, no solenoid clicking, no turning over -- the engine light goes on when a the key is turned. I have tried to start it in neutral. I have ensured the steering wheel is locked, and I have jammed it into park, made sure the brake is depressed -- nothing.

THE CODE
The on-off-on trick rendered a 'no code' response

THE LIGHTS
The lights work -- they do not dim when pedal is compressed or key is turned. I don't have a multimeter. When the key is turned, there is a faint, faint whine that fades away in that scary way an old music box would. However the whine is EXTREMELY faint.

THE BATTERY
I did a computer reset, cleaned the terminals with a wire brush and baking soda, and let sit disconnected for 15 minutes. I also attempted to jump the car -- nothing. The keyless entry works, as does the horn.

THE AWFUL
A day or 2 prior to this, the car had some trouble turning over. Every ten starts it would stall after starting, and then start up again. This happened -- maybe, 3x in 2 days. It simply won't start, but it's parallel parked, so I can't get it towed.

DID NOT TRY YET
I read a trick about a starter bypass by jumping terminal 30 to 87, but I honestly have no clue what that is -- I looked at the diagram, and it makes no sense to me. I have no yet attempted to remove the yellow wire from the pink wire (where they meet under the steering wheel).

Basically, if anyone could give me any advice whatsoever, I'd appreciate it. I'm stuck -- this would earn you massive karma points, and if nothing else, it would be the best Christmas present for me.

Thanks in advance; I'm sitting in the car, and I'll be checking this constantly.
Jack

 

[CzarKJ]

Possibly actuator pin. We saw this a few times. Check this thread.

http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f196/will-not-start-54869/

 

[ChiefRudy]

Put the shifter into neutral and start the vehicle. The vehicle may not be recognizing that the shifter is in Park. Even taking the vehicle out of park and putting it back into park might do the trick but I would try starting in Neutral 1st

Once in a while my Jeep wouldn't recognize the shifter was in Park. It had to be pushed for forward just a smidgin more to have it recognize it. Last time it happened was 3 year ago.

 

[DutchlandDiesel]

Hi and thanks for the responses.

I just tried the Neutral start and nothing. Pushed it into Park -- forcefully, nothing. In the event it's an actuator pin, how would I know if it was broken or not? I don't have the Torx bit(s) that the tutorial requires to remove the ignition housing.

Is it recommended to try the starter relay in the event that I've never attempted anything like that in my life?

 

[ChiefRudy]

Hi and thanks for the responses.

I just tried the Neutral start and nothing. Pushed it into Park -- forcefully, nothing. In the event it's an actuator pin, how would I know if it was broken or not? I don't have the Torx bit(s) that the tutorial requires to remove the ignition housing.

Is it recommended to try the starter relay in the event that I've never attempted anything like that in my life?

How old is the battery? Even if the the lights, horn and keyless are working. The battery could be on it way out. My battery showed proper voltage when it died last winter despite everything else working. Took a couple time to jump start it too.

infact i drove the vehicle the night before no problem and over night we had a cold snap. I think that what officially killed the battery

The battery was just over 6 when it died. It was the factory battery

and if the pin was broken. It should still start while in Neutral.

 

[DutchlandDiesel]

Hi -- I went out to start the car, and -- after a week of trying, it just started. I shut it off after 10 minutes and restarted it. It started. I'm not trying to look a gift horse in the mouth, but is this safe to drive 40 miles? Is it probable that this will start tomorrow? What the hell made this thing start?! What's the next move?

 

[bassmanbob]

You should get a multimeter and test the voltage of the battery. Also check the acid levels of the battery.

 

[profdlp]

Hi -- I went out to start the car, and -- after a week of trying, it just started. I shut it off after 10 minutes and restarted it. It started. I'm not trying to look a gift horse in the mouth, but...

1) is this safe to drive 40 miles?
Assuming it doesn't sound like a load of gravel in a washing machine, it's probably as safe as any vehicle. Nobody can guarantee a vehicle will make it for even the next mile, but if it starts all right and seems to be running well the odds are good.

2) Is it probable that this will start tomorrow?
Before any of this happened, you would have answered your own question with a "yes". When you first posted this thread the answer would have been "no". Who knows?

3) What the hell made this thing start?!
Figure out why it didn't start before and you'll have the answer to the first two questions, and probably the third one, too..

4) What's the next move?
Read the advice you've been give thus far about battery testing, actuator pin, and all the rest. Once you know what caused the problem in the first place you can create a strategy to find a solution. Your doctor won't give you medicine until he's pretty sure he knows what's wrong to begin with. :waytogo:

 

[Billwill]

How old is the battery? Even if the the lights, horn and keyless are working. The battery could be on it way out. My battery showed proper voltage when it died last winter despite everything else working. Took a couple time to jump start it too.

infact i drove the vehicle the night before no problem and over night we had a cold snap. I think that what officially killed the battery

The battery was just over 6 when it died. It was the factory battery

and if the pin was broken. It should still start while in Neutral.

I believe the "pin" we are talking about here is the Actuator Pin that turns the ignition switch when the key is turned to "start". This Actuator Pin partially breaks so the cluster lights etc. come on but the engine does not crank...this has nothing to do with the Jeep being in Park or neutral.

 

[Billwill]

Hi -- I went out to start the car, and -- after a week of trying, it just started. I shut it off after 10 minutes and restarted it. It started. I'm not trying to look a gift horse in the mouth, but is this safe to drive 40 miles? Is it probable that this will start tomorrow? What the hell made this thing start?! What's the next move?

The next move is to make sure that you have a small section of wire with you...a straightened out paper clip will do. Then you bypass the ignition by jumpering out pins 30 and 87 in the Starter Relay socket as previously discussed.

So if the engine refuses to turn over:
Put into Park or Neutral so you do not run yourself over.

Turn on ignition.

Remove the Starter relay...you will see on the relay which pins are "30" and "87"...the socket may also be marked...put the relay aside somewhere.

Place the piece of wire between pins 30 and 87 inside the relay socket...the engine should turn over and hopefully start so remove the wire quickly or else the starter motor stays engaged.

This should get you home and then you need to look into the circuitry further...and buy a basic digital multimeter...no need for an expensive super-accurate one!....then get back to us here:icon_neutral:

 

[cplchris]

go to advance auto or napa and get the ignition actuator pin its like 42 bucks, im thinking that's your issue...get a screwdriver set that has torx bits in it as well, the actuator pin is quick and easy to change out and from the sounds of it that is your problem

 

[DutchlandDiesel]

Hi -- I also read that diagram on justanswer of the jump from 30 to 87, but I had no idea what it meant. There's something that looks like a first aid kit under the hood with fuses and these plugs -- the starter relay, but I unplugged it to look at it, and I could figure out where I was supposed to put the wire. Mind you, I know little to nothing about cars -- and I could'nt figure out if (or how) I was supposed to start the car while the jump was in there, because it said I had to remove it whilst the solenoid started clicking.

While most of you pick the pieces of your brains off the floor (an I'm sure they exploded from my last statement), could someone explain how the paper clip or wire goes? Does it go into the actual holes of the terminal (the corresponding holes for pin(s) 87 and 30)? Do I plug the relay back in while the wire is there? I just don't get it.

Oh, I also didn;t chance driving the car back. I'm going to try and start it today. I moved it to a spot that's in front of a driveway, so at least the tow truck guy can come tow it if it wont start. I think the jump trick would be great to know just for utility purposes, so could someone explain it to me if they feel so inclined?

Thanks to everyone who responded for the help -- I think I love this forum!

The next move is to make sure that you have a small section of wire with you...a straightened out paper clip will do. Then you bypass the ignition by jumpering out pins 30 and 87 in the Starter Relay socket as previously discussed.

So if the engine refuses to turn over:
Put into Park or Neutral so you do not run yourself over.

Turn on ignition.

Remove the Starter relay...you will see on the relay which pins are "30" and "87"...the socket may also be marked...put the relay aside somewhere.

Place the piece of wire between pins 30 and 87 inside the relay socket...the engine should turn over and hopefully start so remove the wire quickly or else the starter motor stays engaged.

This should get you home and then you need to look into the circuitry further...and buy a basic digital multimeter...no need for an expensive super-accurate one!....then get back to us here:icon_neutral:

 

[DutchlandDiesel]

Hi Chris and thanks. The car wouldn't start this evening. I slammed the jeep into park and then ****** the wheel to the left while turning the key in the ignition and the car started sputtering -- I pushed the gas down and it started! Does this still jive with your actuator pin theory? If so, I will get on that tomorrow.
Please let me know when you have a moment?

Thanks a lot for your help.

go to advance auto or napa and get the ignition actuator pin its like 42 bucks, im thinking that's your issue...get a screwdriver set that has torx bits in it as well, the actuator pin is quick and easy to change out and from the sounds of it that is your problem

 

[dude1116]

Hi Chris and thanks. The car wouldn't start this evening. I slammed the jeep into park and then ****** the wheel to the left while turning the key in the ignition and the car started sputtering -- I pushed the gas down and it started! Does this still jive with your actuator pin theory? If so, I will get on that tomorrow.
Please let me know when you have a moment?

Thanks a lot for your help.

FYI pressing the gas down on most (if not all?) fuel injected engines does not spill fuel into the engine. In fact, pressing the gas ALL THE WAY down shuts off the fuel completely. So that probably had no effect on the Jeep starting.

 

[Billwill]

Hi -- I also read that diagram on justanswer of the jump from 30 to 87, but I had no idea what it meant. There's something that looks like a first aid kit under the hood with fuses and these plugs -- the starter relay, but I unplugged it to look at it, and I could figure out where I was supposed to put the wire. Mind you, I know little to nothing about cars -- and I could'nt figure out if (or how) I was supposed to start the car while the jump was in there, because it said I had to remove it whilst the solenoid started clicking.

While most of you pick the pieces of your brains off the floor (an I'm sure they exploded from my last statement), could someone explain how the paper clip or wire goes? Does it go into the actual holes of the terminal (the corresponding holes for pin(s) 87 and 30)? Do I plug the relay back in while the wire is there? I just don't get it.

Oh, I also didn;t chance driving the car back. I'm going to try and start it today. I moved it to a spot that's in front of a driveway, so at least the tow truck guy can come tow it if it wont start. I think the jump trick would be great to know just for utility purposes, so could someone explain it to me if they feel so inclined?

Thanks to everyone who responded for the help -- I think I love this forum!

As I stated.."put the relay aside".

You place the piece of wire into the relay socket...into the female pins that you have identified as pins 30 and 87...pull the wire out the instant the engine fires!

The engine has to turn over..if not then check fuse 8 (40 Amps) in the distribution box where you are busy working with the relays.

The above procedure completely bypasses the ignition switch and the interlocks on the Starter Relay....ie. drive is in Park or in Neutral.

So if the engine now turns over and starts it means your fault is with:

A broken "Actuator Pin Assembly"...this breaks fairely often and is found by removing the plastic covers off from the steering column....use two male Torx bits. Then you have to remove the ignition switch from the key barrel by removing a smaller Torx screw....newer KJs need a "Security" male Torx bit which has a hole drilled down its center. You should noe see if the end of the actuator pin has broken off.

If this is the case..ie. pin is broken, put the key in the ignition..to unlock steering and enable SKIS if fitted and turn the ignition switch with a small flat screwdriver...the engine should start and you can run like that while looking for a new Actuator Pin assembly.....not from the Jeep Agents...they do not have it.

If the actuator pin is not broken then it could be a faulty Starter Relay....swap it out with an identical one near to it.

Finally it could be the Interlocks on the coil of the starter relay preventing the relay from activating. These interlocks are the "Park" and "Neutral" interlocks that sense that it is safe to start the engine....on the manual Jeep the interlock is the "Clutch Overide Switch" when you press in the clutch.

What model is your Jeep? Ie. Gas or Diesel, Manual or Auto...I can post the relevant circuit diagram here for you.

 

[AVR2]

I've just had a similar problem (I have a separate thread about it); I went to start the Jeep and it cranked for about a quarter of a second and then stopped. After that, turning the key gave me lights on the dash, but nothing else - no clicking starter solenoid, no trouble codes, nothing.

After checking the battery, I swapped the starter relay for a known good one, and that didn't make any difference. Then I jumped pins 30 and 87 and the starter motor turned. I put the relay back in, and Jeep started normally on the key. Turned it off, waited a few moments, turned it on again, and it started normally again.

I'm glad that it's starting again, but I'd like to know what the problem was :shrug: I was expecting it to be either the actuator pin or the starter motor, but clearly not. I hope it's not the Park/Neutral switch, given that you need to partly disassemble the trans to replace that...

 

[Billwill]

I've just had a similar problem (I have a separate thread about it); I went to start the Jeep and it cranked for about a quarter of a second and then stopped. After that, turning the key gave me lights on the dash, but nothing else - no clicking starter solenoid, no trouble codes, nothing.

After checking the battery, I swapped the starter relay for a known good one, and that didn't make any difference. Then I jumped pins 30 and 87 and the starter motor turned. I put the relay back in, and Jeep started normally on the key. Turned it off, waited a few moments, turned it on again, and it started normally again.

I'm glad that it's starting again, but I'd like to know what the problem was :shrug: I was expecting it to be either the actuator pin or the starter motor, but clearly not. I hope it's not the Park/Neutral switch, given that you need to partly disassemble the trans to replace that...

Sometimes merely plugging the Starter Relay in and out a few times cleans up the male/female plugs and it works again for a while....you may be lucky!

 

[DutchlandDiesel]

As I stated.."put the relay aside".

You place the piece of wire into the relay socket...into the female pins that you have identified as pins 30 and 87...pull the wire out the instant the engine fires!

The engine has to turn over..if not then check fuse 8 (40 Amps) in the distribution box where you are busy working with the relays.

The above procedure completely bypasses the ignition switch and the interlocks on the Starter Relay....ie. drive is in Park or in Neutral.

So if the engine now turns over and starts it means your fault is with:

A broken "Actuator Pin Assembly"...this breaks fairely often and is found by removing the plastic covers off from the steering column....use two male Torx bits. Then you have to remove the ignition switch from the key barrel by removing a smaller Torx screw....newer KJs need a "Security" male Torx bit which has a hole drilled down its center. You should noe see if the end of the actuator pin has broken off.

If this is the case..ie. pin is broken, put the key in the ignition..to unlock steering and enable SKIS if fitted and turn the ignition switch with a small flat screwdriver...the engine should start and you can run like that while looking for a new Actuator Pin assembly.....not from the Jeep Agents...they do not have it.

If the actuator pin is not broken then it could be a faulty Starter Relay....swap it out with an identical one near to it.

Finally it could be the Interlocks on the coil of the starter relay preventing the relay from activating. These interlocks are the "Park" and "Neutral" interlocks that sense that it is safe to start the engine....on the manual Jeep the interlock is the "Clutch Overide Switch" when you press in the clutch.

What model is your Jeep? Ie. Gas or Diesel, Manual or Auto...I can post the relevant circuit diagram here for you.

Bill-that was extremely helpful.
I have a 2005 Liberty 3.7L Trail-Rated version -- VERY IMPORTANT TO NOT THAT IT'S TRAIL-RATED. :whymewhyme:

I don't understand how you'd go about pulling the wire out of the starter relay female if you're behind the wheel? My understanding was that the starter relay was under the hood.

Thanks again -- J

 

[van462]

The jumper at the starter relay bypasses just about everything. It sends 12 volts directly to the starter solenoid. If you left the key in the off position it will crank, if in the run position it should start. If you have a manual you had better be in neutral with parking brake on. The jumper is the equivalent of turning the key to the start position but it also bypasses a few other safeties.