My 3.7 she goes"ticka ticka tick."

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kj924

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Had the KJ at the stealership for noise diagnosis. When started cold it tick from the top end. In severe cold (-25 C) it really thrashes. Dealer said not to worry right now and we will "revisit it" in a couple thousand kms. Now I've turned wrenches for a living(even worked at a stealership too) and I know they don't want to replace anything till she goes boom.

They pulled the right valve cover and checked things, and said there is nothing wrong. Nothing wrong!:mad: Noise just about always means something wrong. It will be interesting to see what they will say next time.

Oh yeah, they let me take an '04 Rubicon home for the night......starting to like those locking diffs (naughty)nana.gif
 
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tjkj2002

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Had the KJ at the stealership for noise diagnosis. When started cold it tick from the top end. In severe cold (-25 C) it really thrashes. Dealer said not to worry right now and we will "revisit it" in a couple thousand kms. Now I've turned wrenches for a living(even worked at a stealership too) and I know they don't want to replace anything till she goes boom.

They pulled the right valve cover and checked things, and said there is nothing wrong. Nothing wrong!:mad: Noise just about always means something wrong. It will be interesting to see what they will say next time.

Oh yeah, they let me take an '04 Rubicon home for the night......starting to like those locking diffs (naughty)nana.gif
100% normal as long as when the engine gets warm the noise stops,noises DO NOT MEAN there is something wrong.The noise is most likely the hydraulic lifters need to be pumped full of oil,until they are they will go "tick,tick,tick" until they are full.Now at -25 your oil doesn't want to flow very well and will take a little time to properly lube all parts of the engine including the lifters.I now that '07 KJ's recommend 5w-20 oil,'02-'06 recommend 5w-30 oil.You can get away with 10w-30 in the hot months.If you are using 5w-30 theres not much you can do,the noise is normal and happens to all vehicles.Do not switch to 5w-20 from 5w-30,you gain zero benifits in a cold start-up.

Again as long as it goes away when warmed up(the engine) it is perfectly normal as long as you are using the proper oil weight.
 

kj924

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Even when the engine is hot, it still has a faint tick.

Now no one can tell me that a metal on metal noise is normal. With every tick, there is wear, and with wear comes failure. If this is normal, then its poor engineering at best.

I also didn't know these 3.7's had hydraulic lifters?

Here's a little blurb......

The 3.7 liter Dodge - Jeep V6 engineThe 3.7 liter PowerTech V-6 engine is, essentially, the 4.7 V-8 with two fewer cylinders. It is being used to replace the 2.5 liter four-cylinder, as well as the 3.9 liter V6 engine, both used only on Jeeps and trucks. Its first use was being the optional engine on the Jeep Liberty, followed quickly by use as the 2002 Dodge Ram's base engine. In both cases, the 3.7 V6 was mated to a five-speed manual transmission or an automatic. It was later attached to a six-speed manual.
Producing 210 horsepower at 5,200 rpm, with 235 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm (that's 157 kW and 319 Nm), the 3.7 is more carlike in its power curve than past Jeep and Dodge Ram engines. However, revving for power is also the key to fuel efficiency not just for this engine, but for most new truck and SUV motors.


The 3.7 has a 90 degree V-6 design with cast iron block, compacted graphite bedplate and aluminum cylinder heads with single overhead cams on each bank. A centrally-mounted, gear-driven counter-rotating balance shaft, along with a split-pin crankshaft, reduces vibration.
Like the 4.7 on which it is based, the 3.7 features chain-driven overhead cams to provide long-term durability and reliability. A fabricated tubular camshaft with powder metal lobes helps reduce engine weight.
Unlike many new engines, the 3.7 has only two valves per cylinder - better for low-end torque, but not as good at higher rpms. Since the 3.7 will be in relatively heavy vehicles, that is probably a good design choice. A variable valve system would be even better.
The composite intake manifold has individually tuned runners for improved performance. Runners are shorter than on the 4.7-liter engine, to produce torque and power peaks at higher speeds. The three-piece shell molded plastic manifold provides individual tuned runners for each cylinder. Molded plastic construction provides more air flow than a cast aluminum manifold with the same dimensions because of its smooth inner walls. Lightweight aluminum pistons and precision forged, powder metal connecting rods reduce reciprocating weight, contributing to the engine's high rpm capability.
High air flow was achieved through hundreds of hours of computer simulation used to optimize every aspect of the air flow equation, from the air cleaner inlet to the tail pipe. Splayed valves and large uniform intake ports, made possible by using overhead camshafts, ensure that abundant air flow enters each cylinder in the same way.
Fast-burn combustion extracts more work from a given amount of fuel, increasing efficiency. Spark plug location near the center of the combustion chamber allows rapid combustion without potentially damaging knock. Rapid, complete combustion maximizes the amount of energy in a given amount of fuel that is transferred to the piston as useful work.
Molded, high temperature gaskets provide lifetime sealing of all structural joints. The drive overhead camshafts uses three chains with an intermediate shaft to provide the necessary speed reduction in a compact package and to ensure reliability. Direct mounting of the alternator, power steering pump and air conditioning compressor on the front cover of the engine provides accurate alignment to minimize belt wear and noise. An automatic tensioner for the single serpentine poly-vee belt makes adjustment unnecessary for the life of the belt.
The exhaust system of the 3.7-liter LEV includes two mini-catalytic converters, one for each cylinder bank in addition to a main under body converter.
3.7 liter Dodge / Jeep engines - production
The 3.7-liter engine is produced at Chrysler's Mack Avenue engine plant in Detroit, Michigan, next to the 4.7-liter engine plant.
 

tjkj2002

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Even when the engine is hot, it still has a faint tick.
Is that faint tich very fast? If so it's most likey the injectors opening/closing,again a totally normal thing.

When cold out(30 degress or less) my KJ ticks(lifters) until warmed up and then there is a faint,very fast tick which is the injectors,been that way since mile 3(have 60,000 now),and every other KJ(besides CRD's) have the same sounds,I use 5w-30 in winter and 10w-30 in the summer.

Now if you hear a load knocking,that's the time to be worried or that loud tick(like at start up) after the engine is fully warmed up and using the correct oil.

If your still worried go to the dealer and start another KJ and listen.
 

JeepJeepster

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So the 3.7 has lifters? I always thought the rocker rode on the cam and the valve was pushed by the rocker. Where does the lifter come into play?
 

kj924

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Its not a base knock, that I know for sure. It does sound alot like you said. When she warms up the noise is almost gone, but I can still hear something. Maybe it is the injectors....dunno. When I go and pick it up, I will start another KJ to see if its the same as mine.

Thanks for the knowledge tjkj.:D
 

kj924

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This is according to Wikipedia

The EKG is a 3.7 L (3701 cc/226 cu in)[1] version built in Detroit, Michigan. Bore is 93 mm and stroke is 90.8 mm. It is a 90° V engine like the V8, with SOHC 2-valve heads. Output is 210 hp (160 kW) at 5200 rpm with 235 ft·lbf (319 Nm) of torque at 4000 rpm. It has a cast iron engine block and aluminum SOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has roller followers, and features fracture-split forged powder metal connecting rods and an assembled reinforced plastic intake manifold.

I take this to mean that there are no lifters in this 3.7L only roller followers. An overhead cam set up doesn't usaully use lifters.
 

tjkj2002

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So the 3.7 has lifters? I always thought the rocker rode on the cam and the valve was pushed by the rocker. Where does the lifter come into play?
I take this to mean that there are no lifters in this 3.7L only roller followers. An overhead cam set up doesn't usaully use lifters.
"roller followers" is a fancy term for "roller lifters",meaning one side has a wheel on it for less friction.Looks different but serves the same purpose.Mechanic tend to call all things that serve the same purpose the same name,which I am rather guilty of since I started turning wrenches at age 10.

The 3.7 does have lifters,rather a version of them(don't look like regular lifters but serves the same purpose),but they do the same job.They contact the cam lobe and tranfer the motion to the rocker arm(then to the valve).A hydraulic lifter(roller or not) has a oil chamber inside of it that gets pumped up with oil to take the slack out of the distance between the cam and rocker arm,and it also self adjusts to allow for heated metal expansion and wear.Otherwise with solid lifter(rollor or not) do not take up that gap until heated or cooled depending on how you set them(older cars-'50) and needed adjustments often as they do not expand like hydrualic lifters for wear.

And that is the noise you are hearing at start up,the lifters oil cavity is empty and will be noisy until filled with oil.
 

offrovering

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i made a video of the ticking and clanking of my lifters and injectors on my discovery during cold start, let me see if I can find it, you will be eased.

in comparison to my liberty, the liberty sounds silky smooth and almost quiet.

any car at those temps will have noises, but I do agree, they make you think and become concerned from time to time
 

SoDakJeep

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Mine Does The Exact Same Thing The Last Few Days It Has Been -9, -3, And 0 Today When I Went To School Around 730 Gotta Love South Dakota Weather Haha. I Get The Same Noise Tick Tick Tick Increases With Rpm's. I Only Notice It On The Days Where Its Sat Overnight And Been Really Cold. During The Summer Never Heard That Noise. But When The Engine Warms Up After A Couple Mins You Cant Here The Noise Anymore. I Would Say Its Normal.
 

JeepJeepster

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What weight oil do you all use?

Mine ticked alittle during the winter with 10w-30 but Ive not heard it since I started using 5w-30 in the winter(10w-30 in the summer).
 

tjkj2002

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I run 5w30 Castrol oil. Used Castrol oil for years in all my rigs. :)
AAAHHHHH...That's your biggest problem,Castrol an Penz are wax based and leave massive amounts of sludge that could lead to blocked oil passages or patially blocked oil passages that can lead to extended times to get oil where it all needs to be.
 

offrovering

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AAAHHHHH...That's your biggest problem,Castrol an Penz are wax based and leave massive amounts of sludge that could lead to blocked oil passages or patially blocked oil passages that can lead to extended times to get oil where it all needs to be.

never heard of castrol like that. I have used it, and still do, never had that problem. I know penz is poor quality, but never had issues with castrol
 

SoDakJeep

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I run Amsoil in my jeep. it only last about a mile and then its all quite again. ITs just right away at start up and then im leaving my driveway. I believe I have 5w-30 but I cant remeber right off hand.
 

kjpilot

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never heard of castrol like that. I have used it, and still do, never had that problem. I know penz is poor quality, but never had issues with castrol

What he says is true. Castrol's base is not a true synthetic, but a hyper-refined wax based petroleum. This type of product can be labeled as "Synthetic" in the US, but not in Europe... not sure about other countries.

Interestingly, while checking into this topic, I found out that Amsoil has an "entry-level" oil they call the XL line, that is also wax based. Their non-XL lines are true PAO synthetics as is Mobil1.
 

kj924

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I have run Castrol in my vehicles for many many years, and never had a problem. Now as far as the wax-based formulation.....maybe so. I know that THE BIG Q is a poor oil.
This has nothing to do with engine oil, rather the engine itself being of poor design/poor materials. I will wait this out and see who's right, me or the dealership. :rolleyes:

Thanks guys for all your input. I will update as failure warrants......
 
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offrovering

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are we talking about castrol syntec, the sythetic, or just regular castrol dino?
 

oldcarguy

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The engine should not make lifter noise on start up unless there is sludge build up or you have a bad valve lash adjuster, You will hear some timing chain noise when it is hot or cold. The rocker is a center roller that is operated by the cam and one end of the rocker is on the valve stem and the other end is on the hydraulic valve lash adjuster. The valve lash adjuster works simular to a lifter but does not touch the cam. The rocker is held in by spring pressure. If the valve lash adjuster is defective it would not retain the oil and could be noisy on start up until oil pressure replaces the leaked oil. The noise should only last a second or two afer start up unless the oil passages are restricted by sludge. It can also cause the rocker to fall off usually on start up. Also, the 3.7 is susceptable to bent valves which can cause the valves to stick and create a simular noise. I have photos of the inside of a 3.7 if you are interested.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii250/oldcarjeepguy/clean.jpghttp://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii250/oldcarjeepguy/final-1.jpg
 
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