Lifting - validation and question on clevis lift

[rsscoggins]

My son turns 16 in April and we picked him up a good used 2002 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4 with the 3.6L. Only has 75k miles. Manual windows, manual locks, manual trans - that should keep him busy driving and off the damn phone!:happy175:

Anyway, he has some money saved and wants to do a lift and tires, add a head unit (to replace the OEM Cassette). He has been around lifted Jeeps/Trucks/ATVs/SxSs his entire life as we always seem to have a project to work on.

On the lift, I have been reading this forum (lots of good information) and followed the Professors lift thread at Professors Lift Thread with a wierd title


The goal of the lift is to make it look better and put some more aggressive tires/wheels - make it look more like a JEEP than a grocery getter! I don't want SUPER high as this will cost me $$ in the long run as we are hoping this will get him through college. Also he is paying for it - he agrees that he wants to do it right the first time, but he is working within a budget so a full blown kit with high-end parts just isn't in the budget. BUT we both agree that a spacer lift isn't the right thing to do either.

A real quick measurement on the drivers side yields 18.25" on the front and 19 on the rear. I will measure a little better once I can get it in the garage after I move some other projects out/around.

So we are going to use the following:

FRONT
OME 2927 HD front springs
Bilstein struts
Clevis lift (see questions below)
TeraFlex Bump stops

REAR
OME 2948 HD Rear Springs
Additional Coil spring Isolator
Hockey Puck bump stops
Shocks -(see questions below)
JBA Shock bushing

Alright now for the questions:

1. We want to do a clevis lift to hopefully compensate for any sag he might get over time but fully realize that the front maybe a little high until everything settles and he puts some miles on it. So should we go with the 0.25 spacer for 1/2" more of lift or the 0.375 spacer for 3/4" more of lift?
   
2. What Rear Shocks? I read somewhere that you should use the Dodge Dakota rear shocks but the professor used the YJ shocks? We have the shock bushing from JBA on the list but don't have a specific shock picked out at this point.
   
3. What about RANCHO front struts and rear shocks over Bilstein? Front struts are about the same costs as Bilsteins but the Rancho's have a rebate on them right now through the end of the month? Again don't want to save $50 dollars just to have to do it over again down the road....
   
4. Hockey puck for bump stops - fully get the concept. Are you guys counter sinking the bolt in the top of the puck. I would assume that you are mounting these on the lower spring cup. Correct?
   
5. What size wheels? - He likes the steelie's. Thinking Black Rock Black Rock D Widow 16x7 Black Wheel - 16x7 with 4" backspacing on 245/75-16. Don't want any rubbing so we are open to suggestions on wheels and backspacing and tire size.
   
6. What about 15" wheels? Will they clear the front calipers? maybe same style wheel in 15x7 with 31x10.5-15 tires. 15" wheels and tires are cheaper ....
   
7. Can we compress the front springs and disassemble the front strut/shock assembly ourselves in the garage? I realize this is a subjective question and I am leary of spring compressors. I do not have a press either. However, I recently had an issue with a shock on my RZR XP and I had to use a spring compressor to remove the spring as the preload collar was stuck. I rented this one Strut Compressor - it has pins that help keep the jaws from slipping off. It worked pretty well on the RZR spring.

We will be ordering parts once we finalize everything and hopefully installing on one of the warmer TEXAS winter weekends (it's been COLD the last few weekends!). We are definitely open to suggestions and advice as I don't want to spend his hard earned savings/birthday money/chore money unwisely!

 

[rsscoggins]

What about Rusty's lift? My son sent me a link to that one - struts, springs for the front and springs shocks for the rear for $390 (on special) - $450 shipped.

Rusty's 2.5" Liberty LIft

 

[u2slow]

You can add 2" conduit nuts between the strut and clevis. Several members have tried that.

There's also the KK clevis which is ~1/2" longer. I'm running these... they are the cast version as opposed to stamped steel.

 

[Tog]

You can do the springs yourself I have done both my KJ and KK with a rig that attaches to my high lift jack. Wouldn't even consider using hook on compressors the tension on these springs is to high.

2004 3.7 limited

 

[tommudd]

What about Rusty's lift? My son sent me a link to that one - struts, springs for the front and springs shocks for the rear for $390 (on special) - $450 shipped.

Rusty's 2.5" Liberty LIft

TOTAL JUNK
Out of 53 lifts we've installed here , one was a Rustys , installed under protest but the kids Dad bought it for him
Off roaded once and not hard , within a years time, two blown rear shocks and it had settled down over 1.75 inches

Same with Skyjacker and just say no to RRO as well
Many of us have been lifting / building and doing work on these for the last 14 years and more
so if we suggest something its because its been tried before and either worked or didn't work
I personally have over 235,000 miles of LIFTED KJ experience on my 03 and 04, using OME, and JBA coilovers

 

[tommudd]

My son turns 16 in April and we picked him up a good used 2002 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4 with the 3.6L. Only has 75k miles. Manual windows, manual locks, manual trans - that should keep him busy driving and off the damn phone!:happy175:

Anyway, he has some money saved and wants to do a lift and tires, add a head unit (to replace the OEM Cassette). He has been around lifted Jeeps/Trucks/ATVs/SxSs his entire life as we always seem to have a project to work on.

On the lift, I have been reading this forum (lots of good information) and followed the Professors lift thread at Professors Lift Thread with a wierd title


The goal of the lift is to make it look better and put some more aggressive tires/wheels - make it look more like a JEEP than a grocery getter! I don't want SUPER high as this will cost me $$ in the long run as we are hoping this will get him through college. Also he is paying for it - he agrees that he wants to do it right the first time, but he is working within a budget so a full blown kit with high-end parts just isn't in the budget. BUT we both agree that a spacer lift isn't the right thing to do either.

A real quick measurement on the drivers side yields 18.25" on the front and 19 on the rear. I will measure a little better once I can get it in the garage after I move some other projects out/around.

So we are going to use the following:

FRONT
OME 2927 HD front springs
Bilstein struts
Clevis lift (see questions below)
TeraFlex Bump stops

REAR
OME 2948 HD Rear Springs
Additional Coil spring Isolator
Hockey Puck bump stops
Shocks -(see questions below)
JBA Shock bushing

WITH WHAT YOU HAVE LISTED YOU WILL HAVE 3 INCHES OF LIFT
Alright now for the questions:

1. We want to do a clevis lift to hopefully compensate for any sag he might get over time but fully realize that the front maybe a little high until everything settles and he puts some miles on it.
   OME WILL NOT SAG FOR A LONG TIME
   So should we go with the 0.25 spacer for 1/2" more of lift or the 0.375 spacer for 3/4" more of lift?
   
2. What Rear Shocks? I read somewhere that you should use the Dodge Dakota rear shocks but the professor used the YJ shocks? We have the shock bushing from JBA on the list but don't have a specific shock picked out at this point.
   USE 99-04 DODGE DAKOTA CLUBCAB 4X4 REAR SHOCKS
   
3. What about RANCHO front struts and rear shocks over Bilstein? Front struts are about the same costs as Bilsteins but the Rancho's have a rebate on them right now through the end of the month? Again don't want to save $50 dollars just to have to do it over again down the road....
   RANCHOS ARE JUNK ANYMORE, THEY USED TO HAVE A GREAT LINE IN THE RSXs BUT DISCONTINUED THEM A FEW YEARS BACK ONLY OME OR BILSTEINS
4. Hockey puck for bump stops - fully get the concept. Are you guys counter sinking the bolt in the top of the puck. I would assume that you are mounting these on the lower spring cup. Correct? NO YOU DO NOT NEED TO COUNTERSINK THEM SOME DO BUT NOT NEEDED PLUS EASIER TO REMOVE IF YOU EVER NEED TO MOUNTING ON LOWER SPRING PERCH , YES
   
5. What size wheels? - He likes the steelie's. Thinking Black Rock Black Rock D Widow 16x7 Black Wheel - 16x7 with 4" backspacing on 245/75-16. Don't want any rubbing so we are open to suggestions on wheels and backspacing and tire size.
   LIFTED 16X7 WITH 4 INCHES OF BACKSPACING IS CORRECT
   
6. What about 15" wheels? Will they clear the front calipers? maybe same style wheel in 15x7 with 31x10.5-15 tires. 15" wheels and tires are cheaper ....
   AFTERMARKET 15 INCH WILL WORK
7. Can we compress the front springs and disassemble the front strut/shock assembly ourselves in the garage? I realize this is a subjective question and I am leary of spring compressors. I do not have a press either. However, I recently had an issue with a shock on my RZR XP and I had to use a spring compressor to remove the spring as the preload collar was stuck. I rented this one Strut Compressor - it has pins that help keep the jaws from slipping off. It worked pretty well on the RZR spring.

TAKE THE FROM COILOVER ASSEMBLY TO A SHOP AND LET THEM DO IT, NO USE LOSING YOUR FACE
We will be ordering parts once we finalize everything and hopefully installing on one of the warmer TEXAS winter weekends (it's been COLD the last few weekends!). We are definitely open to suggestions and advice as I don't want to spend his hard earned savings/birthday money/chore money unwisely!

Depending on what tires you may have to pound over the pinch weld as well , easy job though
also remember you will lose power and mileage with that size tire, I run and recommend regearing to compensate but some will argue that point as you will see .

 

[renegade 04]

I just added the kk clevis's to my jeep and love it, and it gives extra clearance for the cv boots.

 

[rsscoggins]

Tom - so with the components I described, woukd you recommend 0.25 or 0.387 clevis shims.

Thanks for the shock recommendation!

If I go with 15” wheels, I assume same 4” backspacing would apply.

Any specific advantage of the 16 or 15”?

 

[rsscoggins]

You can add 2" conduit nuts between the strut and clevis. Several members have tried that.

There's also the KK clevis which is ~1/2" longer. I'm running these... they are the cast version as opposed to stamped steel.

I checked out the conduit nuts at Home Depot - they were beveled and not flat. Is that normal?

 

[u2slow]

Bevelled is normal.

 

[tommudd]

I checked out the conduit nuts at Home Depot - they were beveled and not flat. Is that normal?

You don't need the conduit nuts or anything else really. We use them for measurement only, they hold no weight, do nothing really. Its just an easy way to make sure both sides are the same

 

[tommudd]

Tom - so with the components I described, woukd you recommend 0.25 or 0.387 clevis shims.

Thanks for the shock recommendation!

If I go with 15” wheels, I assume same 4” backspacing would apply.

Any specific advantage of the 16 or 15”?

Yes if you go with 15s , would be same width and backspacing
Since I do not like Soft 8s etc that you have to use to run 15s I only like 16s

 

[u2slow]

I'm running 2 or 3 conduit nuts... I forget. The 1st one kind of disappears into the shock plate, but after that they add height.

If all you're after is some cheap 15" steel winter wheels, there's dodge truck/van and car steels that work. Mine were from an 84 ramcharger 2wd. Probably has to that age or older.

 

[rsscoggins]

Yes if you go with 15s , would be same width and backspacing
Since I do not like Soft 8s etc that you have to use to run 15s I only like 16s

Tom, man thanks for all of your help on behalf of me and my son! It is greatly appreciated.

However, I am not following that last part - are you saying that you don't like the Soft 8s at all or they look weird in 15 or that you don't like the manufacture of the ones who make them in 15"? Not that it matters if you don't like them but if they look weird in 15" then that could be an issue or if the 15" wheels from certain manufacturers have issues, then that is another story! The wheels I had in the original link were the D-Window wheels and not the soft 8, I believe.


So with the lift I have proposed, I understand that we can run a 245/75R16 without issue (is that correct). That is about a 30.5 tire that is about 9.6 wide.

So with 15" wheels, would you run a 31x10.50 or a 30x9.50. I am thinking a 30x9.50 is safer for clearance.

 

[tommudd]

Tom, man thanks for all of your help on behalf of me and my son! It is greatly appreciated.

However, I am not following that last part - are you saying that you don't like the Soft 8s at all or they look weird in 15 or that you don't like the manufacture of the ones who make them in 15"? Not that it matters if you don't like them but if they look weird in 15" then that could be an issue or if the 15" wheels from certain manufacturers have issues, then that is another story! The wheels I had in the original link were the D-Window wheels and not the soft 8, I believe.


So with the lift I have proposed, I understand that we can run a 245/75R16 without issue (is that correct). That is about a 30.5 tire that is about 9.6 wide.

So with 15" wheels, would you run a 31x10.50 or a 30x9.50. I am thinking a 30x9.50 is safer for clearance.

I just don't like Soft 8s / D Windows etc personally
Kind of over done in my book
Not that they look weird or anything
Yes with 2.5 inches of lift you can run 245-75-16s or 3 inches even better
31-10.50-15 is same height as the 245-75-16s and 265-70-16s
30x9.50 would look great as well, plus no real power or mileage loss
of course not everyone runs as many hills as I do so the reason for me to recommend regearing , ( plus I like a little stop light action every now and again LOL)

 

[rsscoggins]

I am in the process of ordering stuff for the lift. The Bilsteins for the Dakota are out of stock everywhere.

If I run the shocks from the wrangle (Bilstein 24-185660) do I need the bushing kit from JBA for these shocks?

 

[tommudd]

I am in the process of ordering stuff for the lift. The Bilsteins for the Dakota are out of stock everywhere.

If I run the shocks from the wrangle (Bilstein 24-185660) do I need the bushing kit from JBA for these shocks?

shockwarehouse had some the other day for the 99-04 Dakota club cab 4x4
just ordered a set for a customers lift
I never use the wrangler ones

 

[rsscoggins]

shockwarehouse had some the other day for the 99-04 Dakota club cab 4x4
just ordered a set for a customers lift
I never use the wrangler ones

Thanks Tom. I will look at Shockwarehouse.

If I use these from the Dakota, I need the JBA bushings correct?

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Yes or do what I did (accidentally) and tighten them down enough to compress the mounts so they don't move. I didn't discover I did that till I went to put OME shocks on and had to slightly widen the openings.

 

[tommudd]

Thanks Tom. I will look at Shockwarehouse.

If I use these from the Dakota, I need the JBA bushings correct?

Yes
Its for bolt size so no slop in the bushing