possible aftermarket tcase???

[incommando]

The 231C,D, or J are LIGHT duty transfers. Chevy and Dodge used it in their downsized S10 & Dakota

The 241C,D, & J are considered medium duty transfer cases: Chevy & Dodge used them in full sized applications, certainly through 3/4 ton.

Bolt up? Both 231J/241J use the 6-bolt pattern??If the two or so interchangeble, as is the allegation, why won't they bolt up? Or maybe they are different, or you are talking nonsense: the low-geared 6-spd delivers more driveline shock and the stepped-up t-case was chosen to withstand it, is my guess.

We know what penny pinching *****'s Chryco was: Why would they spend even an extra penny to put in a 241J, requiring different front drive shaft to be deisgned/fitted/stocked, among other things?

It is on the person making the claim to prove it: WHY (provide facts, not wiki or "I always heard...") does the 241 exist if it is the same as a 231?

I know it is not an awesome Atlas ( and we know how awesome it is by the 14,912 times you post it) and I'd never question the guy who trolls a KJ forum when he owns a tall Jetta wagon, not a KJ, but hey, humor me here....

I found this info in less than 30 seconds:
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/transfer_case_replacements_and_parts/np231.html
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/transfer_case_replacements_and_parts/np241.html

Or go here
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/heavy-duty-np231-388997/
and scroll down to look at the pics. The dismissive " .25 inch wider chain" comment doesn't really cover the other, more robust characteristics of the 241 chain and sprockets or some of the other internal differences.

Hey.... After all, a stroked 383 is basically a 262 V8 with a couple of internal differences...why would you want one over the other?

 

[tjkj2002]

The 231C,D, or J are LIGHT duty transfers. Chevy and Dodge used it in their downsized S10 & Dakota

The 241C,D, & J are considered medium duty transfer cases: Chevy & Dodge used them in full sized applications, certainly through 3/4 ton.

Bolt up? Both 231J/241J use the 6-bolt pattern??If the two or so interchangeble, as is the allegation, why won't they bolt up? Or maybe they are different, or you are talking nonsense: the low-geared 6-spd delivers more driveline shock and the stepped-up t-case was chosen to withstand it, is my guess.

We know what penny pinching *****'s Chryco was: Why would they spend even an extra penny to put in a 241J, requiring different front drive shaft to be deisgned/fitted/stocked, among other things?

It is on the person making the claim to prove it: WHY (provide facts, not wiki or "I always heard...") does the 241 exist if it is the same as a 231?

I know it is not an awesome Atlas ( and we know how awesome it is by the 14,912 times you post it) and I'd never question the guy who trolls a KJ forum when he owns a tall Jetta wagon, not a KJ, but hey, humor me here....

I found this info in less than 30 seconds:
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/transfer_case_replacements_and_parts/np231.html
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/transfer_case_replacements_and_parts/np241.html

Or go here
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/heavy-duty-np231-388997/
and scroll down to look at the pics. The dismissive " .25 inch wider chain" comment doesn't really cover the other, more robust characteristics of the 241 chain and sprockets or some of the other internal differences.

Hey.... After all, a stroked 383 is basically a 262 V8 with a couple of internal differences...why would you want one over the other?

You've got other considerations then just spline counts between the 2 cases.The 6 speed barely has a lower crawl ratio then a auto or 5 speed KJ so the "extra beef" is not needed.It was simply the 241 had the correct length input shaft for the 6 speed for full spline engagement,cost less then having another 231 built with the correct length input.


Oh and "DUH" when it has a wider chain there has to be wider gears,that is a no brainer and should be self explanatory,guess not.And stocking more parts was not a factor since they had to stock different parts for the 5-speed KJ's compared to the auto's and the 45RFE/545RFE and 42RLE auto's.And let's not forget the at the same time they dropped the 6 speed behind the CRD's that were exports(a valid reason for the extra beef) so why pay extra for a input shaft for the 231 when they already had the setup for the CRD.

 

[J-Thompson]

Let me really throw out some confusion
the 6 speed came in the TJ
no TJ ,other than Rubicon, came with a 241
I am by no means trying to say that the 241 is not more HD than a 231
sure it is, but only because of some internal parts
those parts can be upgraded in the 231 making them basically the same
my point is more to the fact that there is no need for a 241 in a YJ ,TJ ,KJ or JK
not one comes with an engine that would even stress a 231
I know why it is in there
sales gimick "the new ??? Jeep comes with a HD 241 transfer case"
people who know Jeep but are not technical know that the Rubicon comes with a 241 so they think "oooh same t-case as a Rubicon it must be better" so Jeep can up the price $500 and people will pay it
Think I am wrong?
My KJ Limited was parked on the dealer lot in a row of 10+ KJ
I noticed the only Renegade ,2wd so it was out, it had the SAME equipment as a Limited
parked right next to it the Renegade cost a good bit more
my wife said "why would I pay more for that all it has is those lights and a roof rack
we can do that our self for a lot less money and this one has the better inside"pointing at the Limited
sales gimick ,and some people buy

 

[incommando]

"The 6 speed barely has a lower crawl ratio then a auto or 5 speed KJ so the "extra beef" is not needed...."

You win the consolation prize on this one:

The crawl ratio for the 42-series with a 231 = 27.70
The crawl ratio with your vaunted 45 series = 30.32
The crawl ratio for the 5 spd = 35.38
The crawl ratio for the NSG370 = 48.20*

And that is despite the drop to 3.55 axle gears with the 6spd. Did you just make your crawl ratio info up to fit your argument?

The point, of course, is that you belittled the 241 by saying " huff huff hufff the 1/4" wider chain huff huff huff" and dismissed the fact that yes, everything else has to be bigger as well. I pointed it out to keep your comment honest.

The 231 is available with what, 20-something different input lengths? NONE equal the 241??? If they are interchangable, then the correct input from the 241 should just slip right into the 231, right? Isn't that your contention? Hmmm? And, according to a brief 'net trip, the 2004 (and possibly later) Dakota came with the 3.7L/231 combo....so, that argument is pretty much disproven,yes?

The stroke difference from the "stroker" 383 from say, a 265, is less per cyl than the .25" number you dismiss as nothing. I am sure that it means there is no difference between the two. You can bolt one right in place of the other, can't you? So why pick the 383? leghump.gif
Actually, the 241 uses a different EXTERNAL case as well, so the parts are not just internal. And you can UPGRADE a 265 to a 383: That doesn't mean they are equal from the factory. After all there are just a few internal differences...lol.

Ummm... I have the sales info....and you are not being very accurate: the 241 was sold as the Command Trac HD system to designate its more robust design over the standard 231 Command Trac. They do not imply that the 241 in the KJ is any more HD than other 241's, such a sthe 241d-HD. As you say: you can spend a grand or so having the 231 made equal to a 241, so the fact that the 241 is a more HD case than the 231 is once again confirmed. The NSG370/241 combo was the cheapest combo available in the KJ. (PSSSTT...The larger,heavier JK gets the 241 as standard, not the 231....Engine output isn't the only reason to go with a heavier duty transfer case, in case you missed that...)


* You have nonsensically and without proof (see a trend?) claimed that the NSG370 in the KJ is the close ratio when others claim that it is the wide ratio. The close ratio was used behind the I6 while the 3.7L got the wide ratio, same as the 3.7L/NSG370 combo in the Dakota & Ram line. Again, it makes sense that the engine/****** combo carried over from line to line. If you can now find reference to the much wider-selling TJ combo being listed as THE jeep NSG370 with the low-numbered KJ version being left out....again.... it does not dismiss that further searching/common sense might lead to another conclusion. Even if it IS the close ratio, it still trumps the others with a 42.1 crawl ratio....

 

[J-Thompson]

Let me really piss in you wheaties some more
I know the JK comes with a 241 ,reason I pointed it out
I also know you can take the low end of a 231 and make
A doubler with that 241? Look it up
You have yet to explain the TJ 6 speed with a 231 and
3.73 gears
While you are at it figure out why the CRD gets a 242
more in put load by a long shot over the 3.6 and 42rle JK
then there is the V8 grand and the 242 or 231 go explain
why they don't get the HD t-case

Like I keep saying
The 241 is stronger than the 231 which is stronger
Than the 242 but is it needed in any of them?
I think not because at last check the 30A or the 35 were
the weak link not the t-case

 

[J-Thompson]

And while you try to explain the stronger engines getting
The weaker case also keep in mind this
Crawl ration is final drive NOT input load
In put load is pre t-case but post trans
So at 1-1 the crd is at X load but the 3.7 is at Y

And the google
Novak reavels that the NSG370 is rated
as a light duty trans capable of a whooping
272 lbft off torque
Yeah buddy you need that HD 241 to handle all
that
or maybe it is the 4.4 to 1 first?
because the NV3550(?) 5 speed only has
a 4.04 first
careful of all that extra in put torque

 

[boebr1]

Who cares... Run it til you break it... then you replace it and repeat... or you go through thousands of dollars to keep it from happening in the future by creating a new drive train... Some day I'll get one of those '40's dodge power wagons, pull the body off, and put the KJ body on it... BOOM! extreme crawler!

 

[incommando]

And while you try to explain the stronger engines getting
The weaker case also keep in mind this
Crawl ration is final drive NOT input load
In put load is pre t-case but post trans
So at 1-1 the crd is at X load but the 3.7 is at Y

And the google
Novak reavels that the NSG370 is rated
as a light duty trans capable of a whooping
272 lbft off torque
Yeah buddy you need that HD 241 to handle all
that
or maybe it is the 4.4 to 1 first?
because the NV3550(?) 5 speed only has
a 4.04 first
careful of all that extra in put torque

Ummm.... I was answering TJKJ's inaccuracies regarding crawl ratio and qouted his exact comment so I thought the progression was idiot proof : comment followed directly by rebuttal. I guess that was trickier to follow than I thought....

 

[ThunderbirdJunkie]

Don't actually know anything about the transfer case discussion, so staying out of that one.

a 383 uses a 400 crank; 3.75" stroke
265 283 and DZ302 use a 3" stroke crank

 

[incommando]

Yes, but you COULD upgrade the one to the other, so to follow out his argument: the two are equal....(biggthumpup)

 

[ThunderbirdJunkie]

in theory yes

 

[J-Thompson]

Ummm.... I was answering TJKJ's inaccuracies regarding crawl ratio and qouted his exact comment so I thought the progression was idiot proof : comment followed directly by rebuttal. I guess that was trickier to follow than I thought....

oh so none of that was directed at me?
like the psssst part about the JK?

like this
you think the 241 is hot snot
fine then
I think it is pointless as the transmissions can not handle the power that
the t-case can and the smaller 231 has the same gearing meaning that
the 241 is a complete waste of money

 

[tjkj2002]

"The 6 speed barely has a lower crawl ratio then a auto or 5 speed KJ so the "extra beef" is not needed...."

You win the consolation prize on this one:

The crawl ratio for the 42-series with a 231 = 27.70
The crawl ratio with your vaunted 45 series = 30.32
The crawl ratio for the 5 spd = 35.38
The crawl ratio for the NSG370 = 48.20*

You forgot to add the 2.5:1 torque converter reduction for the auto's,which blows the manuals crawl ratio's away.Hence why a auto does not need the ultra low 1 gear like manuals do,the TC gives a reduction that turns a 3:1 1st into more like 7:1.

 

[boebr1]

If it ain't broke... don't replace it...
If it goes slow (or fast) enough... don't upgrade it...
are we approaching= (deadhorse) ?

Here was the question:
i was just getting under my kj to inspect everything and clean some areas up when i noticed a shiny tag on my tcase...long story short the tcase is made by new process gear in syracuse NY i did some research into the company and unfortunately he plant was closed down not too long ago... does any1 else have this tcase "new process gear madel 231 J" ? i just would like some input on quality of the tcase or if any1 on here knows the former companys reputation???

Seems the answers are:
The quality is fine...
The parts are available...
There will never be a shortage of them...
Upgrades kits are available...
And you can spend lots of money on aftermarket ones...
You just need to decide how slow you want to go, and whether or not you are going to put a tuned-up V8 in front of it.
oh... and, there is a plastic thing that brakes on the cable, but someone is working on figuring out how to replace it with metal.

 

[J-Thompson]

You forgot to add the 2.5:1 torque converter reduction for the auto's,which blows the manuals crawl ratio's away.Hence why a auto does not need the ultra low 1 gear like manuals do,the TC gives a reduction that turns a 3:1 1st into more like 7:1.

yeah but the 241 is the hot shait
and the nsg370 is the best transmission on the market

 

[tjkj2002]

yeah but the 241 is the hot shait
and the nsg370 is the best transmission on the market

rofl2.gifrofl2.gifrofl2.gifrofl2.gif

Heck the 42RLE has a higher torque rating then the 6-speed.

 

[J-Thompson]

rofl2.gifrofl2.gifrofl2.gifrofl2.gif

Heck the 42RLE has a higher torque rating then the 6-speed.

no way
the 6 speed "box of marbles" is connected to the best t-case ever made
so it must be the best transmission ever

 

[incommando]

Nice to see you guys stayed a little on toopic and addressed the issue. Some people can't stand being proven wrong.

My last comment on the crawl ratio: NO ONE does the convertor voodoo for crawl ratio that TJKJ is talking about. I noticed that it is not used that way on any calculation website that I have seen. I know you need to try to justify the huge expense & time you have sunk into your KJ instead of building a super rig with the same investment, and bragging is a big part of of the justification, but dude.......

Jetta Wagon Fanboy earns the ignore until I join a Vdub website.....Considering the real-world problems of VW don't look for that to happen any time soon....

 

[J-Thompson]

Nice to see you guys stayed a little on toopic and addressed the issue. Some people can't stand being proven wrong.

My last comment on the crawl ratio: NO ONE does the convertor voodoo for crawl ratio that TJKJ is talking about. I noticed that it is not used that way on any calculation website that I have seen. I know you need to try to justify the huge expense & time you have sunk into your KJ instead of building a super rig with the same investment, and bragging is a big part of of the justification, but dude.......

Jetta Wagon Fanboy earns the ignore until I join a Vdub website.....Considering the real-world problems of VW don't look for that to happen any time soon....

Um ok
I will not compare the problems with
a VW to those af any American made car

I would like you to show me why having
an NP241 in a KJ is an advantage over a 231
I know the 241 is stronger
I want to know what advantage it has in a KJ
or even what advantage it has behind the
6 speed