Valve replacement how-to? Help Troubleshoot?

[widwesternjeepz]

Hey all! New to the forum, found you guys doing a google search looking for info. Not a good day here....

Get a call from the girlfriend she said her 2003 Sport with the 3.7L started flashing the CEL and running like crap, so rough she said it was shaking and scaring her.

She made it across town, about four blocks from where the problem started and got home. It has a P0302 cyl 2 misfire, i pulled the plug and replaced, i swapped the coil with cyl 4, still no change.

I can unplug the coil on cyl 2 while the engine is running and there is no change in its behavior, shaking, rough, etc. But if i pull the coil plug on any other cylinder while running then it nearly stalls out, so i know the problem is cyl #2 and its not a spark problem.

I fear its a broken valve spring. It started pouring rain here so i didn't get to pulling the plug and checking compression on that cylinder but i am betting its going to be a broken spring, local shops have seen it before and i know another KJ owner that went through this. Problem is it always ends up being a $2k repair job and pulling the head, etc.

I don't want to pull the dang head for a single spring. Going to check compression and if its dead on that cylinder i will get to pulling the valve cover. I can get the spring and rocker cheap locally from a dealer, about $20 in parts is all, the question is, how do you keep the valve up to swap the spring, its not going to work using air pressure because it won't close with the broken spring from what i read online. I was thinking the old rope trick that i have used on engines before, stuff it full of rope then hand crank it around to TDC and go to work. Will that work?

What about compressing the new spring? Will that be a nightmare or what? I don't have a spring compressor anymore, last one i had i gave to a buddy that needed it, i don't know if it would work on the 3.7L anyway looking at the pictures in the service manual. Anyone else here that has done this that can suggest a compressor for the job??

Thanks!

 

[tjkj2002]

While your at the dealer you can also order the special tool to replace said valve springs,pretty cheap to.

As for keeping the valve in place..................

Save on Lisle 19700 at ToolTopia.com

 

[widwesternjeepz]

Dealer said the tool was $87, not exactly cheap my friend!!

And you trailed off there... As for keeping the valve up??? What would you suggest?

 

[tjkj2002]

Dealer said the tool was $87, not exactly cheap my friend!!

And you trailed off there... As for keeping the valve up??? What would you suggest?

$87 is cheap for tools.Price a 10 piece set of snapon flank drive wrenches,that's not cheap.

Click the link for the 2nd part.

 

[Ry' N Jen]

The tools cheaper than bringing your ride in to a shop and having the work done!

 

[widwesternjeepz]

I clicked link... I have one of those air hoses, it won't do jack.

Checked compression, cyl 2 has a valve problem. Put air hose adapter in plug hole to see if i could close valve with pressure, air just blows out the intake valve won't hold closed. So not sure how thats going to help when it comes time to pull of the spring as the valve will just drop.

 

[widwesternjeepz]

Actually its not cheaper... I have a local shop that said about $250 to replace the valve spring, if i blow almost $100 on a tool (money i don't have) and another $20 on parts (i can afford that at least) then i might as well bring it to them and be farther in debt and not do the work myself.

But anyway.... Called the dealer back, got the parts dept, he said they can order the tool will be a two week lead time. What??????

 

[Ry' N Jen]

Perhaps try the old rope trick then!

 

[tjkj2002]

Actually its not cheaper... I have a local shop that said about $250 to replace the valve spring, if i blow almost $100 on a tool (money i don't have) and another $20 on parts (i can afford that at least) then i might as well bring it to them and be farther in debt and not do the work myself.

But anyway.... Called the dealer back, got the parts dept, he said they can order the tool will be a two week lead time. What??????

Then just park till you can afford to fix it.You do not need a vehicle.

Still don't understand why poeple have a vehcile that can not afford to fix them.A $250 repair is a drop in the bucket as far as automotive repaires go.

 

[widwesternjeepz]

Then just park till you can afford to fix it.You do not need a vehicle.

Still don't understand why poeple have a vehcile that can not afford to fix them.A $250 repair is a drop in the bucket as far as automotive repaires go.

Has anyone ever told you how big of an ass you are? I guess you live where you work, the rest of us poor bastards have to own one to drive to work, doesn't mean we can always afford to own one, but its a vicious cycle, own to get to work, and work to own.

Sorry we aren't all rich like you, judging by your postings on here and pictures you definitely don't have money problems.

The rest of us live in the real world, where bills and economic downturn make it hard to live from paycheck to paycheck.

Did i complain about the $250?? No i did not you *******. I said if i was going to blow $100 on a tool i might as well take it to someone who has the tools to do it and put my time to better use making money to pay for it.

If $250 is a drop in the bucket for you then i guess we should all be happy for you, but $250 is a quarter of my paycheck and nearly a mortgage payment as well.

 

[widwesternjeepz]

Perhaps try the old rope trick then!

That's what we plan on doing, took it to a friend of mine who owns a shop, he tried airing it up to, valve wouldn't stay up, going to fill it with rope and get to replacing the spring this weekend.

I don't think it will be that bad of a repair job after all, the valve cover removal isn't that bad.

 

[Paul M]

More than cheap...$250 is dirt cheap to be up and running in short order. Ours completely quit one frigid morning after running fine the night before. Busted valve spring (crap design). Dealer said the head was not rebuildable and thru Jeep was a full assembly part - which I thought was baloney, but went ahead anyway. That repair was $3K. Spend the $250.

 

[widwesternjeepz]

$87 is cheap for tools.Price a 10 piece set of snapon flank drive wrenches,that's not cheap.

Click the link for the 2nd part.

I must have missed this post... So i will comment. I looked that up, never heard of them before, but then i don't buy shafted-on tools. How much of an idiot do you have to be to spend $400 on a set of wrenches that you can otherwise get from Sears for $30.

 

[widwesternjeepz]

More than cheap...$250 is dirt cheap to be up and running in short order. Ours completely quit one frigid morning after running fine the night before. Busted valve spring (crap design). Dealer said the head was not rebuildable and thru Jeep was a full assembly part - which I thought was baloney, but went ahead anyway. That repair was $3K. Spend the $250.

Wow! I looked up a new head, $409.99 from my local dealer, $3k? I mean wow... You can't add up enough parts to get their, must have been a huge labor charge. I realize you would need gaskets and new head bolts, and what not, but $3k??? Whew.

I guess this is more common then the dealer wishes to admit? I found a lot of cases on here alone.

 

[tjkj2002]

I must have missed this post... So i will comment. I looked that up, never heard of them before, but then i don't buy shafted-on tools. How much of an idiot do you have to be to spend $400 on a set of wrenches that you can otherwise get from Sears for $30.

After using them you'll never step foot in sears again to buy a wrench.Craftsman is okay for the "once in awhile use" but fails quickly when used daily.

 

[Snail Farmer]

Craftsman is okay for the "once in awhile use" but fails quickly when used daily.

X2.. I'm a machinist and I don't use Craftsman in my shop. I've used them before and they don't even last one day. I do have Craftsman tools at home though. But I have a Sears basically across the street from my house, so if a tool breaks I just walk across the street and have it replaced free.

 

[Paul M]

Wow! I looked up a new head, $409.99 from my local dealer, $3k? I mean wow... You can't add up enough parts to get their, must have been a huge labor charge. I realize you would need gaskets and new head bolts, and what not, but $3k??? Whew.

I guess this is more common then the dealer wishes to admit? I found a lot of cases on here alone.

Is the new head a full assy for that price? I did have other items taken care of at the same time (plus a full oil change because of the engine work). I complained to Chrysler Care and they sent me a check that covered half the repair because of the premature failure.

 

[belvedere]

Paul M, I was curious about the price, too. I checked a couple of the online Chrysler parts dealers, and they show a list price of $690, so $410 would be a steep discount. If he can get that kind of discount, good for him, but they are never going to give you a discount on a part when they install it.

 

[widwesternjeepz]

I double checked the dealer today, it was $409.99 for a complete head. I asked them what they mean by complete, they parts counter guy was like i don't know. So i had him bring one to the counter so i could look at it.

The $409.99 price is for a head with valves and springs installed, no cam bearings or cam, also no rockers or lashers included. So now we know!

Oh and this repair just keeps getting stranger...

We put in air pressure to try and move the valve while turning the engine by hand, this was just a troubleshooting step as we pretty much figured it was a broken spring, hadn't removed the cover yet but knew from reports and the low compression it had to be it. Well me removed the cover today, the rocker is still on!! And the springs are fine no broken spring. So what the F...

Upon closer inspection the roller in the rocker is f-ed up, its chipped and there is little pieces of metal around the top side of the valve spring, its the #2 exhaust rocker with the damaged roller. We turned it slowly by hand and the cam lobe has a few rub marks on it but nothing more that normal wear compared to the others. So at this point we are planning on replacing the rocker and lasher and doing another compression test.

Bore scope into the plug hole didn't reveal anything wrong with the piston or valve seats, i saw some reports that they dropped a valve seat but the valve is closed right now but doesn't appear to open all the way or at all sometimes, watched it while rotating by hand. So it appears to be a failed roller on this rocker?? Has anyone seen this exact symptom before? I can't find any case by searching.

As for Sears wrenches, i have some that were in the family for 40+ years, all of them are in good shape, and have been used daily. My uncle used some of these daily at work as a mechanic, so i just don't agree with them not holding up. Not saying i am a craftsman only fan, i have a bunch of kobalt and other brands, whatever was cheap when i needed them. But Snapon is just too high priced for what you get.

 

[tjkj2002]

As for Sears wrenches, i have some that were in the family for 40+ years, all of them are in good shape, and have been used daily. My uncle used some of these daily at work as a mechanic, so i just don't agree with them not holding up. Not saying i am a craftsman only fan, i have a bunch of kobalt and other brands, whatever was cheap when i needed them. But Snapon is just too high priced for what you get.

The cheap brands like craftsman,kolbalt,and the like tend to have the open end spread under heavy load which then rounds the nut/bolt and yes there are many cases when you must or can only use the open end.Take doing alignments,setting the front toe you can only use a open end wrench to break the jam nut loose.The Snapon is specifically designed to prevent the open end from spreading under a heavy load.I've tested it many times and it never stops amazing me,heck I've had a 6 foot cheater pipe on my 22mm wrench trying to get a jam nut loose and it never opened up or rounded the nut,I ended up breaking the outer tie rod end instead.

I was not into all that hype either but 2 years ago I had to borrow another 21mm wrench(open end opened up to much) and the tech I borrowed it from lent me his flank drive snapon and let's just say I bought a set that night and sold all the other wrenches.