These pistons look normal?

[Jags]

Got the head off. #4 exhaust valve wiggles (middle cylinder). Guide is gone. 40,000 miles on new motor that was installed in 2010. Jeep was losing water and oil. Questions..
1.) Do the pistons look normal? lot of build up..why? I thought middle one should be shiny from water going in cylinder. Must have gone out exhaust and in oil.
2.) Why does an engine lose 3 qts. of oil when guide goes out? Does that much get around missing guide? Owner claimed they parked it soon after the white exhaust and Ticking started.
3.) Intake had water/oil mix in it...how the heck did it get into intake. ( did an edit..I said a quart earlier. It was alot but maybe not that much..)

Appreciate the comments. I hope a new head will solve all my problems.

 

[Birdman330]

No those do not look normal for that amount of mileage.

 

[LibertyTC]

Those photos at 40k Scare Me !!
By chance did you do a compression test before you pulled the head?
I would have the whole motor rebuilt. Those pistons & bores look nasty! :thumbsdown:

 

[mx3_ryder]

Why do you say it had water leakage? Bad head gasket? Did you drop the oil in the pan? What did it look like? Milky? How long has it been sitting? The pistons and bores in the block I just took out of my jeep with 198,000 miles looked in much better shape, though by the looks and sounds of things yours has burned some oil and coolant in its days. I'd be very nervous as to what damage has been done to the bottom of that engine. I would think strongly about just pulling the engine to check all your rod and main bearings. From experience, these engines are much easier to work on when yanked out anyways.

 

[libertybob]

Questions

1) When you say the "middle exhaust valve guide is gone" do you mean missing entirely or worn badly to give excessive clearance with valve stem? If missing entirely, where did it go? If one breaks apart, it would usually cause damage to the top of the piston. If the valve guide has too much clearance, this could be due to the original rebuild using an oversize guide or due to lack of lubrication causing excessive wear.

2) All 3 piston tops and head combustion chambers seem to have a lot of carbon build up for 40k miles. How is fuel consumption? Is the engine running excessively rich?

3) 3 quarts oil consumption - was this sudden or over several thousand miles? Worn valve guides do cause oil consumption. It can usually be seen as blue smoke from the exhaust pipe on start up, but it continues while the engine is running. The white smoke the previous owner told you about points to a blown head gasket. Blown head gaskets can also be from an oil pressure galley pumping oil into cylinders causing excessive oil consumption. Should have seen lot of blue smoke from exhaust however.

If the engine were mine, I would replace the worn guide (Loctite it in) and have the head serviced. Then reinstall it with new head gasket. Most of the work is already done. Once the engine is reassembled, I would also check compression on all cylinders and timing. I assume you have not run the engine since you bought the vehicle non running, so it is difficult to trouble shoot. Keep us informed as to how this works out.

 

[Jags]

Have not taken valve out of head yet. I can wiggle #4 exhaust quit a bit. Owner said wife was driving when light came on. Misfire on #4. Started to have white exhaust and loud tick. Compression is 150 of all 6. lot of whits sludge in motor. Pcv valve and hose full and plugged with white sludge. oil didnt look bad, I had to add almost 3 quarts to drive it home. Noticed platinum plugs in jeep, was told not to use those. Whats the best additive to add to gas to clean pistons once I put it back together? Does motor flush work good for sludge? Will pull valve out and post pic and see what is cracked.

 

[Jags]

I did notice that this jeep has a k&N filter. It had alot of oil/water vapor sludge on it. I wonder if it ran really rich due to that. Just a thought. My water/oil usage has to be from a cracked head from guide being gone. Not sure why oil would have been so low if they parked the jeep shortly after the noise and white smoke started. I can pull motor and go thru it or just put new head on and see if it was all related. When I drove it home it ran fine. Just a loud tick or passenger head. I couldnt get it to smoke white, but I only drove it a mile and parked it.

 

[MarkJ]

Got the head off. #4 exhaust valve wiggles (middle cylinder). Guide is gone. 40,000 miles on new motor that was installed in 2010. Jeep was losing water and oil. Questions..
1.) Do the pistons look normal? lot of build up..why? I thought middle one should be shiny from water going in cylinder. Must have gone out exhaust and in oil.
2.) Why does an engine lose 3 qts. of oil when guide goes out? Does that much get around missing guide? Owner claimed they parked it soon after the white exhaust and Ticking started.
3.) Intake had about 1.5 qts water/oil mix in it...how the heck did it get into intake.

Appreciate the comments. I hope a new head will solve all my problems.

What do you mean by "the intake"? Where exactly was this 1.5qt of oil and water?

Oil in the intake could cause that buildup in the combustion chamber I suppose... Need to know where exactly 1.5qts of anything can hide in the intake? Did you perhaps mean in the airbox holding the air filter?

 

[Jags]

When I took intake off and went to set it down oil/water ran out of it. It was alot, not sure of amount but it suprised me. I set it upside down for a while and it left another nice little puddle.. Did water vapor cool and condense from reclaim lines? Not sure.

 

[MarkJ]

Got the head off. #4 exhaust valve wiggles (middle cylinder). Guide is gone. 40,000 miles on new motor that was installed in 2010. Jeep was losing water and oil. Questions..
1.) Do the pistons look normal? lot of build up..why? I thought middle one should be shiny from water going in cylinder. Must have gone out exhaust and in oil.
2.) Why does an engine lose 3 qts. of oil when guide goes out? Does that much get around missing guide? Owner claimed they parked it soon after the white exhaust and Ticking started.
3.) Intake had about 1.5 qts water/oil mix in it...how the heck did it get into intake.

Appreciate the comments. I hope a new head will solve all my problems.

What do you mean by "the intake"? Where exactly was this 1.5qt of oil and water?

Oil in the intake could cause that buildup in the combustion chamber I suppose... Need to know where exactly 1.5qts of anything can hide in the intake? Did you perhaps mean in the airbox holding the air filter?

 

[Jags]

When I took off intake and throttle body I could hear sloshing inside. I drained it into a bucket. Water/oil mix. I set it upside down and a puddle of runny brown liquid formed around it. Quart was probable pushing it, more about 2 cups. Took head apart. Guide port is egg shaped. Valve seal is wide open. Guide was riding on Valve. Head gasket was leaking on left side of Head ( dark area). I believe I had two problems. Thought they had to be related. Got a new head with cam and Valves for $325 from CHI out of Calif.

 

[LibertyTC]

My guess form compression, the coolant & oil mixture was forced into the intake after the gasket sprang a leak.
Now I am tempted to remove my intake & clean it. Probably oily in there.

 

[Jags]

I plan on cleaning it out as best i can. May waste a whole can of carb spray on that job, but i want it clean on re-install. I figured since its tore down this far, im gonna pull left valve cover. Im sure the white sludge is caked on that inside cover also. Used a turkey baster (from wifes kitchen) to clean hoses. I cant believe how much white froth is in reclaim hoses. I just wanna take my time and do this right. Its not a daily driver yet so why rush it.

 

[Jags]

I am thinking that that water vapor cooled in the intake also and condensed there. Or on de-acceleration with the throttle body closed, it got sucked into intake. The owner claimed it didnt smoke much. With that seal gone and egg shaped guide port, the oil had to run down into the cylinder like a toilet. The head gasket went out by the exhaust port. I suspect all that heat caused it to fail. The exhaust spring is black. I plan to drop oil now and then again after I run it. How soon would you do the second oil change after rebuild?

 

[libertybob]

Coolant in Oil

When you get coolant in the oil, it mixes to form the white "sludge" you see. When faced with this problem, I don't drop the pan but instead fill the crankcase with clean oil, start the engine for 1 minute, then drain the oil, fill with fresh oil, and repeat until the oil is clean . This flushes out the oil passages, lash adjusters, bearings, cylinder head, and oil pan. For the flushes, I used inexpensive oil with the final fill a high grade oil. Then change again after 500 miles. Dropping the oil pan takes a lot of effort and doesn't flush the oil galleys and internals. Usually the white "mayonnaise" flushes out after the 2nd. oil change. Of course, one could completely disassemble the engine to clean it properly, but I never went to that degree.