Spacer Lift will be your doom!

[jfortier777]

If you bought a spacer lift then this is your future.

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If you install a spacer lift kit on your liberty and take it offroad this is going to happen to you!

Buy a Frankenlift or a RockfatherII lift if you have any intentions of going offroad. Anything more than level 1 trails will probably be too much.

This is not a fluke due to abuse, this is just an accelerated case because I did not know the limits of this suspension lift when I got it.
If you reach the end of your downward wheel travel you will pinch the inner portion of the UBJ boot, (see pictures above). Any serious offroading will likely cause you to reach the end of your wheel travel so beware!
Example

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As a side note I do not claim to have discovered this myself. I spoke to a very wise mechanic(who wishes to remain anonymous) who explained this to me.

Here are the new BJs.

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This is how we learn. Thank you unnamed mechanic for the lesson.

 

[Mutt]

My UBJs look like that with the Frankenlift, also the a arm hits the spring, and my alignment toes in because the upper a arm is pulling it in. Hopefully, this is going to be the solution to my front suspension:

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[jfortier777]

Those look like Al's arms.

That was going to be part of my solution.

 

[Mutt]

They are Al's arms, the only option out there. I was going to put them on today, but I'm too sunburned from doing the Powertrax yesterday. I need an air conditioned garage.

 

[jfortier777]

You should write up a How To on the install, or just take a bunch of pictures.

 

[Mutt]

Will do, I looked at it last night and looks pretty straight forward. The biggest problem will be moving the interferences to get the arms out.

On another note, I'm considering adding some thicker top plates to my struts and machining the same amount out of the spacers to give my springs more travel without losing any lift.

 

[Marlon_JB2]

Another wonderful victim of Rocky Road's 2.5" OTT Lift.

They should really take it off the market...

 

[jfortier777]

Another wonderful victim of Rocky Road's 2.5" OTT Lift.

They should really take it off the market...

Much as I do hate RRO, I can say, with 85% certainty, that this is not their fault.

With Mutt's problem it is apparent that any lift will cause this, even the franken lift.

 

[DJBassman]

So... I am real new to this stuff. I have my 235 tirs on order and was not going to lift this year, maybe next year. But, if these lift's create problems, and then we learn what to make it better. So, for the likes of me, what is the solution? Get a frankin lift, and then change other parts as well?

 

[Mutt]

So... I am real new to this stuff. I have my 235 tirs on order and was not going to lift this year, maybe next year. But, if these lift's create problems, and then we learn what to make it better. So, for the likes of me, what is the solution? Get a frankin lift, and then change other parts as well?

The Frankenlift is the best lift by far. You'll need Al's a arms to correct the frontend geometry and an adjustable lower control arm in the rear to recenter the rear wheel in the well. Al is fabricating a new rear boomerang and I'm doing an adjustable one.

Mostly the aftermarket has no interest in the KJ, it is up to guys like you and me to figure out how to make the mods work.

Build, beat, fix, repeat.

 

[MoladoGuy]

Mostly the aftermarket has no interest in the KJ, it is up to guys like you and me to figure out how to make the mods work.

Keep up the good work almighty ones!! Your efforts continue to hold the KJ world together in unity and off-roading.

 

[sport]

It ***** to have that happen, the same is happening to me and as soon as I can get a response from Al I will be ordering the new arms.

The thing is you can't put blame on an OTT lift. If you put some actual thought into it you would understand that all lifts are going to extend the upper arm downward and closer to the spring. Any bottoming out on any lift will cause contact with the UBJ and the spring.

 

[ogfalcon]

I talked with Tony, one of the techs at Rustys, and he said that their OTT spacer lift will NOT cause any problems with the suspension contact (spring seat hitting UBJ, steering knuckle, etc). Tony told me that the problems associated with spacer lifts are from the spacer lifts with spacers inside the strut (Rough Country), versus outside the strut (Rustys). I'm replacing my Rough Country with Rustys tomorrow.

 

[JeepJeepster]

I talked with Tony, one of the techs at Rustys, and he said that their OTT spacer lift will NOT cause any problems with the suspension contact (spring seat hitting UBJ, steering knuckle, etc). Tony told me that the problems associated with spacer lifts are from the spacer lifts with spacers inside the strut (Rough Country), versus outside the strut (Rustys). I'm replacing my Rough Country with Rustys tomorrow.

Haha, thats wrong. Its the spacers OUTSIDE the strut that causes the problem. They let the suspension droop more which in turn lets the upper A-arm hit the spring. If you have a spacer that is INSIDE the strut, keep it.. O

 

[Corwyyn]

I talked with Tony, one of the techs at Rustys, and he said that their OTT spacer lift will NOT cause any problems with the suspension contact (spring seat hitting UBJ, steering knuckle, etc). Tony told me that the problems associated with spacer lifts are from the spacer lifts with spacers inside the strut (Rough Country), versus outside the strut (Rustys). I'm replacing my Rough Country with Rustys tomorrow.

Haha, thats wrong. Its the spacers OUTSIDE the strut that causes the problem. They let the suspension droop more which in turn lets the upper A-arm hit the spring. If you have a spacer that is INSIDE the strut, keep it.. O

Exactly! And for clarification, here is a pic of one of my Daystar spacers with a bumpstop for the UBJ:

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If not for that bumpstop I'd be having this same problem. Luckily Daystar figured it out and included the bumpstop with the lift (which I bought used from another KJ owner).

 

[JeepJeepster]

Is that just the daystar lift Corwyyn? If so, why are you getting UBJC?

Do you have a strut plate also?

 

[desertkj]

The Frankenlift definitely doesnt solve all your problems. Mines coming off monday because it is way more labor intensive than I planned (and than All Js led me to believe). Personally, I dont blame the suspension companies for avoiding the Liberty now that I have had some first hand experience. If I owned an offroad company, I wouldnt touch it.

 

[Eddo]

The Frankenlift definitely doesnt solve all your problems. Mines coming off monday because it is way more labor intensive than I planned (and than All Js led me to believe). Personally, I dont blame the suspension companies for avoiding the Liberty now that I have had some first hand experience. If I owned an offroad company, I wouldnt touch it.

Actually, most lifts do not have any problems. Without a new top-plate or OTT spacer you will not have any of these problems. Rustys Spring lift, OME lift , etc.. none of them have the ubj contact problem.

And the UBJ contact problem can be resolved with a lower bumpstop. The UBJ contact has not to do with height, it all about how much the suspension droops. The addition of the different top plate is what causes the contact on the Frankenlift and Daystar lifts, but that is solved with the red bumpstop.

The KJ is really no different that any Jeep when it comes to lifting. There are pros and cons of all different types of lifts. I have my fair share of experience working on KJ suspension and other Jeeps (CJ, YJ, etc). There are issues with those Jeeps, handling, bump steer, pinion angles, driveshaft vibes, incorrect caster angle that needs new control arms or shims to fix, and the list goes on. Surprisingly the KJ has very few of issues mentioned above due to the longer wheelbase and adjustability of the IFS alignment settings.

The is little aftermarket support because it is mostly considered a grocery getter and too new, just like the WKs and even the WJs to some extent. It has nothing to do with the issues.

 

[Eddo]

It ***** to have that happen, the same is happening to me and as soon as I can get a response from Al I will be ordering the new arms.

The thing is you can't put blame on an OTT lift. If you put some actual thought into it you would understand that all lifts are going to extend the upper arm downward and closer to the spring. Any bottoming out on any lift will cause contact with the UBJ and the spring.

Actually that is incorrect. When the suspension droops the upper a-arm falls into the spring. It needs to be stopped from drooping so far. In stock form the strut is what prevent the suspension from drooping so far that UBJ contact is made. The max extension of the strut is what prevents further droop. Most lifts only include slightly longer struts, but taller springs to provide the lift. The strut is still short enough to prevent the suspension to droop far enough into the spring. Yes, a lift will place the upper control arm closer to the spring, but it should be stopped by the limiting length of the struts extension.

Lifts such as the OTT place a spacer on top of the strut assembly and push the strut assembly further down. This allows the suspension to droop further and thus the contact is made

The issue with the OTT style lifts is they do not incorporate the lower bump stop or provide one. They really need too. The other issue with the OTT kits is bottoming out the strut (not over extension) which is a little different.

The UBJ contact can be fixed with a lower bumpstop that is shown in corywn's picture of the daystar lift. It is the small polyurethane square strapped to the bottom of the strut.

Other lifts such as the Frankenlift and Daystar use a different top plate that places the upper mounting point for the strut lower to increase droop and relieve some strut pretension. This creates the same problem as with UBJ contact and the spring as described above. The Frankenlift does have the lower extension bumpstop. However, in a recent revision it did not function properly and therefore they when back to the old system. That is why there is mention of the UBJ contact with the Frankenlift by some folks. Also, sometimes All-J does not tight the clamp down tight enough and the bumpstop slides off. I've seen that happen on two KJs.


Wow those two posts where longer than I expect. Hope that clears up some misconceptions regarding KJs and lifts.

 

[desertkj]

It ***** to have that happen, the same is happening to me and as soon as I can get a response from Al I will be ordering the new arms.

The thing is you can't put blame on an OTT lift. If you put some actual thought into it you would understand that all lifts are going to extend the upper arm downward and closer to the spring. Any bottoming out on any lift will cause contact with the UBJ and the spring.

Actually that is incorrect. When the suspension droops the upper a-arm falls into the spring. In stock form the strut is what prevent the suspension from drooping so far that UBJ contact is made. The max extension of the strut is what prevents further droop. Most lifts only include slightly longer struts, but taller springs to provide the lift. The strut still keeps the shorter enough to prevent the suspension to droop far enough into the spring. Yes, a lift will place the upper control arm closer to the spring, but it should be stopped by the limiting length of the struts extension.

Lifts such as the OTT place a spacer on top of the strut assembly and push the strut assembly further down. This allows the suspension to droop further and thus the contact is made. Other lifts such as the Frankenlift use a different top plate that place the upper mounting point for the strut lower to increase droop and relieve some strut pretension. This creates the same problem as with UBJ contact and the spring as described above.

The UBJ contact can be fixed with a lower bumpstop that is shown in corywn's picture of the daystar lift. It is the small polyurethane square strapped to the bottom of the strut.

The issue with the OTT style lifts is they do not incorporate the lower bump stop or provide one. They really need too. The other issue with the OTT kits is bottoming out the strut (not over extension) which is a little different.

The Frankenlift does have the lower extension bumpstop. However is recent revision it did not function properly and therefore they when back to the old system. That is why there is mention of the UBJ contact with the Frankenlift by some folks. Also, sometimes All-J does not tight the clamp down tight enough and the bumpstop slides off. I've seen that happen on two KJs.

Double post! I'm just messing with you. Anyways, I guess I've got too used to dealing with trucks and that with the lifts. I've known many people with full size trucks who lifted them and could forget about it becuase everything worked out perfectly. I guess it's a "Jeep Thing". Anyways, I kinda wished I had known that it really required all of this to be an effective kit. I wouldnt have done it. I was already under the impression that the stuff like the A-Arms and greasable ball joints were an option, not a necessity.