Rocky Road OTT "budget lift" :(

[IIVII]

Hey Ever1

i wish i've found this forum b4 buyin' & installin' this kit


i live overseas , so i paid ($160) just for shippin and i bought this kit without knowin what i was gettin myself into .. it was installed last week the Lib looked good and drove kinda softer , till i took it offroad 2 days ago n (i drove it hard) the result is : ](*,)

The left front suspension (driver side) got really messed up n am talkin about everything


1-ball joints
2-strut
3-axle
4-random loud noises on both sides .. (clunks) over bumps or dips ](*,)

man what a "budget lift" (Aeh)


please advice is the other kit they have any better ?

Rocky Road 2.125" Combo kit ( inside strut coil spacers) or should i look somewhere else . i need to change the front side , cuz the rear coil spacers r workin just fine.

Thanx


Here r Some Photos of ma Lib 2003 Limited 5sp on 2.5" lift & 10x15 with 275/60/15 (Sand Tires) \/

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[Eddo]

Re: Rocky Road OTT "budget lift" Yeah right

Hey Ever1

i wish i've found this forum b4 buyin' & installin' this kit


i live overseas , so i paid ($160) just for shippin and i bought this kit without knowin what i was gettin myself into .. it was installed last week the Lib looked good and drove kinda softer , till i took it offroad (i drive hard) 2 days ago n the result is :

The left front suspension (driver side) got really messed up n am talkin about everything


1-ball joints
2-strut
3-axle
4-random loud noises on both sides

man what a "budget lift" (Aeh)


please advice is the other kit they have any better ?

Rocky Road 2.125" Combo kit ( strut coil spacers) or should i look somewhere else . i need to change the front side , cuz the rear coil spacers r workin just fine.

Thanx


Some Photos of ma Lib 2003 Limited 5sp on 2.5" lift & 10x15 with 265/60/15

ogfalcon, is correct. Certain types of spacer in the front cause problems. The OTT kit cause the same problems over and over again. Exactly the same design as tera-flex, and Rusty's spacer. It's acceptable if you don't want to offroad and drive really gentle. Ruff county is very similar except it uses a spacer that sits on the bottom of the strut. If you opt for a space you want that goes inside the strut assembly or atleast half inside and half outside (combo lift)

I'd scrap the front spacer, and get some new springs instead. You can pick up a set of Rusty's (www.rustysoffroad.com) front springs for about 120 dollars. Put that in the front. You might want some new struts if the OTT kit has already damaged the stock struts. The rear you can just leave alone.

 

[IIVII]

Thank you guys for the inputs ,,

i've seen Rusty's system but the problem was i couldnt get them to send it overseas , cuz it was hard to get an answer from them by email

so let say i went with a complete inside strut spacer sys , or half inside and half outside Rocky's (combo lift) , will i still have the problem where the A-arm is makin' a contact with the spring and resulting the "clunk" ? cuz , i checked ma Lib today and that what made the "clunk" noise , and messed up the ball joint .

Thanx again guys .

 

[Eddo]

Thank you guys for the inputs ,,

i've seen Rusty's system but the problem was i couldnt get them to send it overseas , cuz it was hard to get an answer from them by email

so let say i went with a complete inside strut spacer sys , or half inside and half outside Rocky's (combo lift) , will i still have the problem where the A-arm is makin' a contact with the spring and resulting the "clunk" ? cuz , i checked ma Lib today and that what made the "clunk" noise , and messed up the ball joint .

Thanx again guys .

The Rough Country kit had a spacer that goes entirely inside the front struts, and I had the same noise you had. I would steer clear, because I had that kit for only one week before I changed it out, because even with mostly street driving, I was having contact when I drove over speed bumps. Your best bet for the front is a suspension (not spacer) lift with around 2 to 2.5" of lift. Since I already had the RC lift on, I just bought the new springs, struts, etc from Rusty, and that ran about $350 bucks or so, before shipping. If you can't get a hold of Rusty's via email, can you call them? If you can, I would talk to Tony; he's always helped me out.

Good Luck

Are you sure the spacer went inside the strut assembly? According to their website and install instructions, it is listed as a billet aluminum strut extension. From the install instructions it looks like it is a spacer/extension that slip on the bottom of the strut. http://www.roughcountry.com/install/692S.pdf

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What causes the upper-ball joint contact problem is the strut extensions (as seen above), or the OTT spacer allows the entire wheel to droop too far. Normally, the length of the struts at full extension is what limits the droop and stops the a-arm and spindle from swinging down into the spring. However, the strut extension or OTT spacer lengths the strut assembly and this results in the a-arm and spindle swinging down into the spring assembly as seen in this picture.

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A second problem is the OTT style spacer or strut extensions allows the strut to be over compressed and bottom out as shown below.

Measured there is aprox 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" distance between the bottom of the bump stop and top of the upper A arm at full shock compression. The bumpstop need to limit the compression not the strut. Bottoming out the strut will ruin the strut.

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[Eddo]

Thank you guys for the inputs ,,

i've seen Rusty's system but the problem was i couldnt get them to send it overseas , cuz it was hard to get an answer from them by email

so let say i went with a complete inside strut spacer sys , or half inside and half outside Rocky's (combo lift) , will i still have the problem where the A-arm is makin' a contact with the spring and resulting the "clunk" ? cuz , i checked ma Lib today and that what made the "clunk" noise , and messed up the ball joint .

Thanx again guys .

A strut extension or OTT spacer that is only about 1/4-1/2" will not cause the problems. It does not lengthen the strut assembly enough to make to cause problems. So using a small OTT spacer and an in-strut spacer will not cause the problems. An in-strut spacer does not length the strut assembly in anyway therefore will not result in any of the above problems. That is why the Combo lift works well, a small OTT spacer and a small in-strut spacer.

I do agree with ogfalcon, your best bet is to just upgrade to new springs. If your struts are not damaged, just take off the front spacer and put these springs on instead. http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/...ys&Product_Code=R901&Category_Code=sus_kj_par
They will give 2-2.5" of lift. If the OTT kit already damaged the struts, then you will need new struts also.

If you can get them to answer to ship overseas, you might want to consider some Heavy Duty OME (Old Man Emu) springs in the front which should give you about 2". I know Rocky-Road sells them also.

Hope it helps.

 

[Eddo]

Semantics, man. On the bottom of the strut or inside the strut or a strut extension; it's really all the same. Yes, this is the way the RC kit was on my KJ, and it did cause problems. Not only did it cause steering knuckle and upper ball joint contact with the spring, it also limits your suspension travel by the amount of lift you have, because the spacer is actually inside the strut. This also compresses the spring more, making the ride very stiff. So, Why waste the money and the time to install a spacer in the strut and one on top of the strut when you could just buy new springs and struts and be done?

No, its actually quite different. A in-strut spacer does NOT lengthen the strut assembly in any way. Just think about it how droop is affect. The strut is what limits droop, if you put an extension on the bottom (or spacer on the top) it increase the strut assembly's effective length. The increased length is what cause the problems.

Yes, an in-strut spacer does compress the spring more (increased preload) and will affect ride, how significant is up the individual. However, that is not what he is asking. A in-strut spacer does NOT increase the length of the struts assembly, therefore it will not have the contact problems. (The daystar/franken lifts are a little different because they use a different top plate that increase the strut assembly's length)

Also, the RC lift or OTT lift does NOT compress the spring further (atleast not at normal ride height). The strut assembly is never opened up, you are merely adding a spacer outside the assembly. Just look at the pictures, the spacer is placed on the bottom outside, not inside. It even says so in the instructions. One of the "supposed benefits" of an OTT or strut extension-- It does not affect preload because no spacer is place inside the strut.
This is what an in-strut type spacer looks like. Notice is goes in-between the top and bottom plate of the strut. Hence it goes in-side the strut.

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The RRO combo lift will not cause the problems. There is a lot of people happy with the RRO combo lift on the lost board. I do agree that new springs are the best way to go, but what you are incorrect is assuming all spacer are the same.

 

[IIVII]

Thank you guys its all clear now ..

Eddo , you r %100 correct ,

In-strut spacer doesn't lengthen the strut assembly in anyway which means the A-arm wont have the extra (travel) causing the contact problem .


Out side spacer no matter which kind , extension on the bottom or spacer on the top , (increase the strut assembly's effective length. The increased length is what cause the problems)


you've mentioned that ,, (Daystar) is a little different because it uses a different top plate that increase the strut assembly's length .. dose it have the contact problem ?


i already e-mailed Rocky-Road discribin' to them my problem , which is the spring hittin' both (A-arm & ball joint) ,
they were kind enough to reply to me quickly , but they sounded kinda surprised knowin' that its not only the A-arm but both (A-arm & ball joint) contactin' the spring .


now i'm thinkin of 2 options

1- Rocky Road Combo kit
2- Daystar part# KJ09117 (2.5" Front spacer kit (1 pair) & upper strut plate)

so what do ya guys think is better to go with and will the RR Combo Kit give me a complete 2.5" lift in the front ?

i know that new springs is the best way to go , but i'm avoidin that option ,cuz of the shippin cost


ogfalcon , Eddo

Thanks again i really appreciate your inputs

 

[Eddo]

Thank you guys its all clear now ..

Eddo , you r %100 correct ,

In-strut spacer doesn't lengthen the strut assembly in anyway which means the A-arm wont have the extra (travel) causing the contact problem .


Out side spacer no matter which kind , extension on the bottom or spacer on the top , (increase the strut assembly's effective length. The increased length is what cause the problems)


you've mentioned that ,, (Daystar) is a little different because it uses a different top plate that increase the strut assembly's length .. dose it have the contact problem ?


i already e-mailed Rocky-Road discribin' to them my problem , which is the spring hittin' both (A-arm & ball joint) ,
they were kind enough to reply to me quickly , but they sounded kinda surprised knowin' that its not only the A-arm but both (A-arm & ball joint) contactin' the spring .


now i'm thinkin of 2 options

1- Rocky Road Combo kit
2- Daystar part# KJ09117 (2.5" Front spacer kit (1 pair) & upper strut plate)

so what do ya guys think is better to go with and will the RR Combo Kit give me a complete 2.5" lift in the front ?

i know that new springs is the best way to go , but i'm avoidin that option ,cuz of the shippin cost


ogfalcon , Eddo

Thanks again i really appreciate your inputs

The Daystar kit uses an in-strut spacer along with a different top plate. The top plate moves the upper mounting location for the strut down further. This would typically result in the contact. However, they have a little red bump stop that prevent that is strapped on to the spacer to prevent the contact. See the picture below. Actually, I'm not 100% sure if this is a Daystar addition, or what All-J (www.boulderbars.com) includes to their customer

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[ogfalcon]

No, its actually quite different. A in-strut spacer does NOT lengthen the strut assembly in any way. Just think about it how droop is affect. The strut is what limits droop, if you put an extension on the bottom (or spacer on the top) it increase the strut assembly's effective length. The increased length is what cause the problems.

Yes, an in-strut spacer does compress the spring more (increased preload) and will affect ride, how significant is up the individual. However, that is not what he is asking. A in-strut spacer does NOT increase the length of the struts assembly, therefore it will not have the contact problems. (The daystar/franken lifts are a little different because they use a different top plate that increase the strut assembly's length)

Also, the RC lift or OTT lift does NOT compress the spring further (atleast not at normal ride height). The strut assembly is never opened up, you are merely adding a spacer outside the assembly. Just look at the pictures, the spacer is placed on the bottom outside, not inside. It even says so in the instructions. One of the "supposed benefits" of an OTT or strut extension-- It does not affect preload because no spacer is place inside the strut.
This is what an in-strut type spacer looks like. Notice is goes in-between the top and bottom plate of the strut. Hence it goes in-side the strut.

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Ahhh, now I get it!! I understand what you're saying, now. Sorry, crappy comprehension on my part. Yes, the RC kit fit under the strut. I was not aware of a front spacer that actually fit inside the strut, so I had just assumed (incorrectly) that all spacer lifts were the same. I do agree that a spacer entirely inside the strut will not lengthen the strut assembly.

Again, my fault for posting bad info!!

Thanks,
OG

Yet, when I look at the picture of the daystar lift, even though the spacer is really inside the strut, as opposed to under the strut, the contact issues look similar to the issues I was having (see the picture I attached). In my situation, the lower spring seat would contact the steering knuckle (even after grinding some of the lower spring seat away), but with the daystar lift, it looks like the spring may still contact the UBJ. And any type of contact of this nature can't be good. So, I ask, if the strut is not extended with an in-strut spacer, why is there a need for a bump stop? Again, I stand (or sit) corrected about the strut extension stuff, but why is there a contact problem with the daystar lift? Is it due to the different top plate?

PS: Here is a pic of the contact I would get with the old RC kit:

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[Eddo]

. So, I ask, if the strut is not extended with an in-strut spacer, why is there a need for a bump stop? Again, I stand (or sit) corrected about the strut extension stuff, but why is there a contact problem with the daystar lift? Is it due to the different top plate?

Exactly. The different top-plate lowers the mounting point for the strut piston, increasing the length of the strut assembly. See the picture below.

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This is actually a picture of a frankenlift strut assembly, that incorporates a daystar 1.5" spacer, daystar top plate, and other hardware.

 

[IIVII]

Eddo

can the daystar 2.5" spacers be installed with stock top plate ?

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[Eddo]

Eddo

can the daystar 2.5" spacers be installed with stock top plate ?

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I'm sure it could. However, one of the reasons for the new top plate is to prevent relieve some of the strut pretension caused when you throw the spacer in there. I'm really not sure how it would effect ride quality. You might want to try and call Daystar.

If you can call over to the states, try giving Quinn a call over at boulderbars.com He is very helpful and friendly. He should be able to answer your questions and they do sell the Daystar lift. I also believe he ships over seas.

 

[IIVII]

Thanks alot Eddo i really appreciate it

 

[IIVII]

this's the last reply i got from (Rocky Road) .. i guess the name says it all #-o


All lift kits on the planet have the problem (including Rustys, Daystar, Fabtech, Skyjacker, Rancho, etc, etc) except for our Rockfather lift kits. It was specifically designed to eliminate this issue. Most people don't have any contact problems at all. Some do have a-arm contact, but the ball joint issue is certainly a new one for us. Could be something specific to Jeep made for your country

www.rocky-road.com

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Top Ten All Star Manufacturers


and

boulderbars.com aint even answerin' my e-mails ,so i guess am kinda givin up on the whole Librety thing , its time to move on , i'll put it back as it was ( stock ) then get rid of it .. ](*,)

Gbye Librety :-#

 

[Eddo]

this's the last reply i got from (Rocky Road) .. i guess the name says it all #-o


All lift kits on the planet have the problem (including Rustys, Daystar, Fabtech, Skyjacker, Rancho, etc, etc) except for our Rockfather lift kits. It was specifically designed to eliminate this issue. Most people don't have any contact problems at all. Some do have a-arm contact, but the ball joint issue is certainly a new one for us. Could be something specific to Jeep made for your country

www.rocky-road.com

Voted by Four Wheeler magazine readers....
Top Ten All Star Manufacturers


and

boulderbars.com aint even answerin' my e-mails ,so i guess am kinda givin up on the whole Librety thing , its time to move on , i'll put it back as it was ( stock ) then get rid of it .. ](*,)

Gbye Librety :-#

BS, tons of people have e-mailed RRO and get the same reply. Just do a search over on the lost board. RRO is well aware of the problems, but every time someone complains that act like the never heard of it and it is probably something wrong with your Jeep. There are MUCH better kits on the market besides the OTT style kits.

 

[Eddo]

A fix for your lift might be a little difficult because of your overseas location.

You might want to try and contact ARB http://www.arb.com.au/contact_exports.php
http://www.arbusa.com/contact_us.php

They have offices and dealers located all over the world. If you can find a dealer then have them ship you some OME927 springs (~120 US dollars). They are the HD front springs. If you are running a ligth load in the front they should give you about 2" of lift. Add the extra 1/2" with a clevis lift.

I run the HD springs up-front along with alot of others and they ride just fine with a light load. From the last time I called them, I believe the medium and light springs are actually softer than stock and the HDs are just a tad heavier than stock.

 

[IIVII]

Hi Eddo ,



i knew Rocky road were BSin' me , i even sent them links to some topics on jeepkj & L.O.S.T boards to prove to them that there are alot of people with US Librety's complainin' about the same problem with the exact same kit , so it has nothin' to do with Jeeps made for my country.

i even asked them if i can buy only the front spacers alone from the combo kit , but they kinda ignored me on that , so i guess that was their way of sayin' (get lost) we've got ur money and we want nothing to do with ya ..


i'll try to contact ARB ..

Thanx again i really appreciate you tryin to help ..