New Guy W/Problems...

[Jnicho]

Hi gang,

New to the forum, but not to cars or car related forums. My GF has an '05 Liberty Renegade which is now in my garage, DEAD, LOL! I towed it home for her last week. I have diagnosed the initial problem to the water pump. Pretty easy to diagnose as there are puddles of coolant all over the engine bay and the fan is about to fall off the bearing is so far gone. The bigger problem is it's missing pretty bad and throwing P0300 and P0302 codes. I have not yet run a compression check on the engine, and I don't know if the engine was overheated badly or not. She said it was smoking when she stopped driving it, so I'm guessing it overheated, but there are also signs that coolant was probably sprayed back on the exhaust which could have caused some of the "smoke". My research is making me wonder about the valve seats if it was overheated...seems to be a common scenario...kind of thinking this could be the reason for the P0302 code. I know trying to diagnose things over the internet is hard at best...but I would appreciate any info/guidance some of you with more experience with this vehicle/engine may be able to give.

Thanks!

 

[Hedsic]

Cylinder 2 Misfire.

Just pulling up the code online it lists these as possible issues. Which are of no help since that's a pretty big list of what-if's

•Faulty spark plugs or wires
•Faulty coil (pack)
•Faulty oxygen sensor(s)
•Faulty fuel injector(s)
•Burned exhaust valve
•Faulty catalytic converter(s)
•Stuck/blocked/leaking EGR valve / passages
•Faulty camshaft position sensor
•Defective computer

If there are no symptoms, the simplest thing to do is to reset the code and see if it comes back.

If there are symptoms such as the engine is stumbling or hesitating, check all wiring and connectors that lead to the cylinders (i.e. spark plugs). Depending on how long the ignition components have been in the car, it may be a good idea to replace them as part of your regular maintenance schedule. I would suggest spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap, and rotor (if applicable). Otherwise, check the coils (a.k.a. coil packs). In some cases, the catalytic converter has gone bad. If you smell rotten eggs in the exhaust, your cat converter needs to be replaced. I've also heard in other cases the problems were faulty fuel injectors.

Random misfires that jump around from one cylinder to another (read: P030x codes) also will set a P0300 code. The underlying cause is often a lean fuel condition, which may be due to a vacuum leak in the intake manifold or unmetered air getting past the airflow sensor, or an EGR valve that is stuck open.

It is helpful to have access to a factory service manual and an advanced scan tool to properly diagnose a random misfire DTC.

 

[Jnicho]

Thanks I looked at something similar...a lot of possibilities, LOL! I was leaning toward a head gasket or valve issue since this started at the same time as the water pump failure. As much as I would love it to be something simple like a coil pack or spark plug, since I think the misfire is likely an effect of the water pump/overheat condition, I'm expecting to have to pull the head(s).

 

[CactusJacked]

Coolant spraying all over the engine area could have shorted out something with the ignition or injectors, and/or now corroded their connections. Removing the heads would be a last resort after everything else has been ruled out.

 

[Jnicho]

Ya, I figured I'd check all the wiring to coils, etc and pull the plugs and look at them first. Then do a compression check. I don't intend to pull the heads unless the compression check indicates a potential problem. I have no desire to do that except as a last resort, LOL!

 

[02blue]

Might be worth pulling the "valve" covers and seeing what the inside looks like. If it's popping when it misfires it may have thrown a rocker. Happened to me once and it was #2 exhaust.

 

[Jnicho]

Might be worth pulling the "valve" covers and seeing what the inside looks like. If it's popping when it misfires it may have thrown a rocker. Happened to me once and it was #2 exhaust.

Good info, thanks. There is some popping, I'll check into it. My code is on the #2 cylinder too.

 

[kage860]

I'm guessing your coils/plugs are wet? I would try to start with finding the leak, fixing it, filling up the coolant and letting the engine bay dry out, then see if it still throws codes. I hate messing with things that aren't broke if I don't have to.

 

[Jnicho]

I'm guessing your coils/plugs are wet? I would try to start with finding the leak, fixing it, filling up the coolant and letting the engine bay dry out, then see if it still throws codes. I hate messing with things that aren't broke if I don't have to.

I had the same thought initially, but I'm not sure I'm still that hopeful, LOL! I know the leak is the water pump...the bearing is spun and I can take hold of the fan and there is substantial play/wiggle so that part is easy enough. I did figure I'd tackle replacing the water pump first and then go from there. I do understand where you're coming from...I have no desire to pull the heads if I don't have to, LOL! I still think I'll run a compression check first and see what that yields. If compression is good I plan to check/clean all the electrical connections to the plugs/coils etc. before I start taking anything major apart. If there is a compression problem somewhere I think that will necessitate some disassembly to find the problem.

 

[slipinkramer]

No guessing about it. Your GF cooked it pretty good.

My wife (formerly known as GF) cooked her PT Cruiser when the electric fan failed once on a lovely 110 degree afternoon. She saw the temp gauge peg. She saw the steam and smelled the sickly sweet vaporized glycol. She even saw the engine light come on when the super heated oil finally gave up its lubricating properties. But she didn't want to stop... She didn't want to bother with a phone call and waiting around for help...

Of course she had to call and wait around when the engine finally seized about 10 miles from home. Its a good thing the head was made of aluminum rather than cast iron or steel. I got more for it by the pound at the recycle-center that way.

I bet you've got a dropped rocker like 02blue said.

 

[Jnicho]

Well gang, I finally delved into this. I checked compression...150psi on all but #2...#2 reads zero! So I pulled the valve cover. One of the rockers on #2 was very loose but I don't think it was out of place. I removed it and shimmed under the lifter to snug it up and did another compression test...still zero. So I guess something else is going on and my next step will be to pull the head.

 

[mx3_ryder]

I feel your pain as my Liberty just dropped #2 intake seat and popped the rocker off as well. I'm actually right in the middle of the tear down. Do we need the secondary camshaft chain tool (#8429) for this job by any chance you know?

 

[mx3_ryder]

I feel your pain as my Liberty just dropped #2 intake seat and popped the rocker off as well. I'm actually right in the middle of the tear down. Do we need the secondary camshaft chain tool (#8429) for this job by any chance you know?

Anyone?

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

I feel your pain as my Liberty just dropped #2 intake seat and popped the rocker off as well. I'm actually right in the middle of the tear down. Do we need the secondary camshaft chain tool (#8429) for this job by any chance you know?

I did a complete tear down when I swapped engines (all three timing chains came out since I had to remove the crank) and didn't use any special tools. Was just very careful and followed the FSM to the letter.

Bob

 

[k99jk99j]

sounds like the overheat damaged the head.