Manual Trans Question

[dude1116]

Hi Guys!!!

This can be KJ related. (In my case...it's not!!)

I've done enough research to find out that when driving a manual and you are at a stop light, sitting there with the clutch down and in gear, you are putting wear on your throwout bearing. I believe the same logic goes if you are in neutral with the clutch down (pointless to be in this position, I know...)

So here's my question for all you gear-heads out there: I've found great joy in rev matching: blipping the throttle with the clutch in, then letting the clutch out after shifting to a lower gear to make a smooth downshift. Does rev matching cause MORE wear on the throwout bearing?

Thanks all!!!

 

[JavelinAMX]

wouldn't think so, besides its one of my favorite things to do too! especially in my buddy's car because it makes him mad when I can rev match better than him in his own stuff.

also, been doing it for years on street bikes and never had any problems, even up shifting on a bike with no clutch or quick shifter was kinda fun too. the quick shifter on my bike that came stock is one of my favorite features.

 

[CactusJacked]

When sitting at a stop light, I put it in neutral and let out the clutch, for the very reason of not wearing out the release bearing sooner. If you gauge the life of the bearing as it having so many revolutions in it before wearing out, then yes rev matching will technically wear it out a fraction sooner. Not that it would stop me from doing it, and it doesn't. Giving it a little more gas when down shifting to reduce jerking is second nature to me. Hopefully you're only talking about downshifting for needing a lower gear. Downshifting to use as braking only wears the clutch out faster, and is a lot more involved money and time wise to replace than brake pads are. I've even seen guys use the clutch to hang the vehicle on a hill at a stop (can see them bounce the car forward and back some)...clueless.

 

[dude1116]

When sitting at a stop light, I put it in neutral and let out the clutch, for the very reason of not wearing out the release bearing sooner. If you gauge the life of the bearing as it having so many revolutions in it before wearing out, then yes rev matching will technically wear it out a fraction sooner. Not that it would stop me from doing it, and it doesn't. Giving it a little more gas when down shifting to reduce jerking is second nature to me. Hopefully you're only talking about downshifting for needing a lower gear. Downshifting to use as braking only wears the clutch out faster, and is a lot more involved money and time wise to replace than brake pads are. I've even seen guys use the clutch to hang the vehicle on a hill at a stop (can see them bounce the car forward and back some)...clueless.

I am talking for both situations: engine braking and downshifting.

You definitely have a point with using the brakes. The main reason I engine brake is so I am in a better gear to accelerate as I slow down. If I'm cruising in gear in forth and I have to slow down to make a turn, I will drop to third or second (depending on the turn) before making said turn. This will give me an engine braking effect, but I'm also ready to pull out of the corner right away

I'm not the best stick driver. I've only been driving it regularly for a week (got the Scion registered 1 week ago today), so I still have a lot to work on. Been working on double clutching and will also be working on heel-toe shifting. But trying to make sure I am doing everything right, as I was barely taught how to drive stick properly.

 

[CactusJacked]

I do the same thing when going through a turn, I was reefering to clutch braking at a full stop. When coming home it's a bit downhill coming around the turn, there I coast with clutch disengaged and put it in a lower gear, but don't let out the clutch till after I'm through the turn; I could almost coast home at that point anyway.

 

[CactusJacked]

Double clutching is something you do for the fun of it, it has no advantages with today's transmissions. Years ago, before my stick time even, transmissions didn't have synchros, and you needed to double clutch to prevent grinding the gears.

 

[dude1116]

I do the same thing when going through a turn, I was reefering to clutch braking at a full stop. When coming home it's a bit downhill coming around the turn, there I coast with clutch disengaged and put it in a lower gear, but don't let out the clutch till after I'm through the turn; I could almost coast home at that point anyway.

Wouldn't coasting with the clutch disengaged (pressed down, right?) burn up the TO though???

Double clutching is something you do for the fun of it, it has no advantages with today's transmissions. Years ago, before my stick time even, transmissions didn't have synchros, and you needed to double clutch to prevent grinding the gears.

I know this. I just like to learn a new skill for the fun of it. Also I figured a double clutch would save the TO.

The proper way to drive a manual tends to differ from person to person, board to board. I know the TO and the clutch are both wear items, as well as synchros. The clutch should usually outlast the TO, and both are replaced at the same time. Synchros should outlast both but probably won't outlast the trans. I'm just trying to figure out how to minimize creating too much wear on one part or the other. So I DO engine brake by rev matching while the clutch is pressed in and I'm in gear. When rev's approximately match trans speed, I let out the clutch and I'm in a lower gear, then use that lower gear to slow down. Question is...how would that wear the clutch more? If the clutch is grabbing the flywheel right away with no slipping, then that should have minimal clutch wear, no? Yet the TO would become more worn down since I am revving with the clutch in?

Oi ve sometimes I wish I didn't get a manual lol. I know...I'm probably overthinking it.

 

[CactusJacked]

So I DO engine brake by rev matching while the clutch is pressed in and I'm in gear. When rev's approximately match trans speed, I let out the clutch and I'm in a lower gear, then use that lower gear to slow down. Question is...how would that wear the clutch more? If the clutch is grabbing the flywheel right away with no slipping, then that should have minimal clutch wear, no? Yet the TO would become more worn down since I am revving with the clutch in?
Oi ve sometimes I wish I didn't get a manual lol. I know...I'm probably overthinking it.

The clutch disc slips some when disengaging and reengaging, no matter how good you are at rev matching. The pressure plate isn't "instant grab", it's spring loaded and "glides" into contact.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

At least you won't get a P0740 with a manual.

 

[nullptr]

I miss driving a manual.

 

[CzarKJ]

I always downshift so I remain able to GO if needed. Always in control. Parts are just parts.

 

[dude1116]

The clutch disc slips some when disengaging and reengaging, no matter how good you are at rev matching. The pressure plate isn't "instant grab", it's spring loaded and "glides" into contact.

Of course, note how I said "minimal." First gear is more wear on my clutch if anything. I guess it's one thing or the other depending on driving style. Clutch or TO bearing. Let's just hope that I don't blow anything up TOO fast.

 

[LibertyTC]

. Let's just hope that I don't blow anything up TOO fast.

I hope you don't get to experience the ...
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You must be registered for see images attach

:gr_grin:

 

[dude1116]

I hope you don't get to experience the ...
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You must be registered for see images attach

:gr_grin:

With two vehicles now it's going to be very hard not to empty my pockets. I already have a short list of plans for the Scion...as well as all the work I would like to do to the Jeep.

I need to win the lottery. Ironically, I never play.

 

[CactusJacked]

Seeing how numerous victi....er I mean Jeep owners with an automatic have had serious problems, I'm even more glad I have a row it yourself trans. I replaced the clutch at 128k miles, only because the pilot bearing disintegrated. The disc had between 5-10k miles of life left. Pressure plate, disc, release and pilot bearing was under $200. An automatic doesn't let you off nearly that easily.

 

[sota]

you're overthinking this. seriously.

 

[turblediesel]

If your foot is on the clutch the throwout bearing is wearing. If the clutch is slipping it's wearing. The less of both, the better. Synchronizers are compensators.. the less RPMs they have to compensate for, the better.

Double clutching spins up the intermediate shaft in the transmission to where it needs to be for a downshift. Clutch, neutral, unclutch, rev to proper RPMs, clutch, lower gear, unclutch, go.

Proper RPMs are determined by driving the same MPH in two different gears, say 3-4, or 2-3. The difference in RPMs is what you blip to, plus a bit due to some drop as you reclutch and engage the lower gear.

It's two applications on the throwout bearings but less bearing spin time, less clutch slippage, and less synchro "compensation" and wear in the long run. Less heat and hot spots on the flywheel and pressure plate.

 

[JavelinAMX]

you're overthinking this. seriously.

yeah just don't use the clutch to shift....:emotions33:

 

[dude1116]

If your foot is on the clutch the throwout bearing is wearing. If the clutch is slipping it's wearing. The less of both, the better. Synchronizers are compensators.. the less RPMs they have to compensate for, the better.

Double clutching spins up the intermediate shaft in the transmission to where it needs to be for a downshift. Clutch, neutral, unclutch, rev to proper RPMs, clutch, lower gear, unclutch, go.

Proper RPMs are determined by driving the same MPH in two different gears, say 3-4, or 2-3. The difference in RPMs is what you blip to, plus a bit due to some drop as you reclutch and engage the lower gear.

It's two applications on the throwout bearings but less bearing spin time, less clutch slippage, and less synchro "compensation" and wear in the long run. Less heat and hot spots on the flywheel and pressure plate.

That's one of the main reasons I want to learn to double clutch. I understand the concept just fine. Just can't get my body to do it LOL! :rofl:

 

[u2slow]

I rev-match too. My cummins trucks prefer it, so I do it on the KJ also. It lets you engage the clutch quicker, which translates into less time the disc spends slipping against the flywheel & pressure plate. I also use neutral and clutch-pedal-out when stopped in traffic.

In 20 years of driving manual, I have yet to wear out a clutch from start to finish.