"How" do you listen to music?

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eddiev9

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For you guys or gals who have like 800-1000W RMS power going into a sub, up to what volume level can you listen to music before it drowns out the highs?

The problem I'm experiencing is that when I turn the volume up to about 80%, the bass kicks so hard you can barely hear any highs. It's not a hard hitting system (about 320 watts RMS), but it does that. So I can only imagine what it would sound like with three times my current power.

Unfortunately, I'm overseas and I haven't found a person who has a more superior system than mine so I am unable to compare or experience.

Some day I plan on going with 1,000 watts of power and be heard thumping from blocks away, but I still want to hear my music. So I'm wondering...is there a trick to all this? Something I'm missing?

My audio specs are in my signature. I have the Gain control on my amps set to even...if that means anything. Thanks.
 

Se7enLC

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eddiev9 said:
The problem I'm experiencing is that when I turn the volume up to about 80%, the bass kicks so hard you can barely hear any highs. It's not a hard hitting system (about 320 watts RMS), but it does that. So I can only imagine what it would sound like with three times my current power.

Some day I plan on going with 1,000 watts of power and be heard thumping from blocks away, but I still want to hear my music. So I'm wondering...is there a trick to all this? Something I'm missing?

Maybe amp the highs higher? I don't know how many people look into the sound quality issue. I hate to stereotype/lump people into categories like that, but I want to say that most people who just want the loud-thumping-from-blocks-away don't care about the musical quality, they just want power! Of course, they don't want distortion or noise or anything like that, but I can't imagine they would put a 1000W amp on their tweeters to actually balance the sound.

Of course, what do I know, I've never actually amped a sub, and my current vehicle has the stock speakers, even.
 

jfortier777

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Necessary Terminology to understand before reading this:

Driver - a device used to reproduce audible frequencies
SubWoofer - A driver designed to reproduce frequencies between 20Hz-200Hz
Speaker - A driver in an enclosure.

I often refer to a subwoofer as a driver because I'm just old school like that.


First of all its important that you don't just look at the power ratings. A high power sub can be fairly quiet in certain enclosures, so it is important to take that into consideration. It simple actually, you have a few options.

1. Pretend you don't notice. This is most often practiced by the typical "I bought it from bestbuy" people.

2. Don't go for SPL, instead shoot for sound quality (SQ), if you take a look at sqliberty's jeep you will see that his setup is geared to high quality, precise sound reproduction. In a setup like this you will deffinetly have an amp on every speaker in the vehicle as well as an array of crossovers, ect...

3. Go for SPL (Sound Pressure Level), Ignore the high range frequencies and try to go as LOUD as is possible. This is probably just as technical as building an SQ system. In a SPL bias system you can expect that you are going to drown out the highs because your only real goal is for VERY loud bass, loud enough for unsafe listening is generally a good goal. Needless to say an SPL system is not a good daily driver.

4. Then there is the hybrid system(which I am building, not to be confused with my dual purpose concept). A hybrid system is fairly common for self appointed system architects. It is the middle of the road in every sense; but usually has slight bias towards SPL or SQ. It is the best all-around non competitive system. Generally it is more than enough to scare the hell out of average people, but not enough to make ears bleed. In the same aspect it sounds good enough that most people think it is the most beautiful thing they've ever heard. (Of course most people can't comprehend competition level SQ.)

There is never an easy way to describe Power Vs. Performance.
I'll start by saying that the power rating of a subwoofer is its ability to disipate energy. (in watts)
Yours for example, is able to opperate continuously with 320 watts of power.(RMS power) Whereas on the the other hand, your max rating is the amount of energy that can be disipated in a quick burst of power.(MAX power)

The more power that your subwoofer can handle the better control it has over its performance. Lower frequencies require more energy in order to be reproduced, and increasing the volume also requires more energy. So a 320 watt RMS driver will have some serious trouble playing a 20Hz sine wave at 130db.(I am sure there is an equation out there to describe this)

Here an example with my driver:
Kicker S15L7 15"
RMS 1000W
The standard for RMS ratings is as follows:
"The maximum amount of power a driver is able to effectively disipate for a period of 8 hours in a free air enviroment"

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU HAVE YOUR USE THAT MUCH POWER!
A subwoofer will function very nicely at even half of its RMS power. But any lower than that is just a waste of a driver with more potential than is being used.
(although I like pushing my system to the limit, its does not mean you have to)

Max 2000W
This means that if I get an amp capable of putting out 2000W I can run the driver at that power rating for a brief period.(Generally for high SPL, maybe 5 seconds tops)
Note: Max power ratings ONLY APPLY TO COMPETITION SYSTEMS. If you are not competing than the Max rating has nothing to do with you.
That is unless, you happen to be building a hybrid system and have VERY good knowledge of your system's power handling abilities, in which case you can burp it to show off. But still only for a few seconds.

I run my L7 at 1200-1400W RMS which means that I need to be very careful low long and hard I am running the driver. If I noticed it is getting too hot I just back off the subwoofer volume a little bit. I do not reccomend a system like mine unless you really know your driver.

I don't know how directly that answers your question, and I am sure much of this you already know. But I figured this would be a good opportunity for a brief tutorial on the basics.
 

sqliberty

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I run my Alpine Type X 12 in a .9 cu ft sealed box running 1000 watts RMS
and I have my Diamond Audio D971 components bi-amped on a 4 channel amp pushing 100 watts RMS to each speaker. It gets very loud with no distortion and I don't ever drown out my highs even when the sub is hitting 135 dB on a Term Lab meter. I do compete in MECA for sound quality and it takes first place most of the time with this setup.
 

eddiev9

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Thanks for the advice, jfortier777. That was a great tutorial! =D>

I may as well ask some advice...you guys think more power to my front/rear speakers may help a little? Right now I'm only pushing in 40W to 60W recommended speakers. At near full volume they distort. With extra power, it'll clear up distortion and, perhaps, I can turn up the gains for them...right? 8-[
 

jfortier777

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sqliberty said:
I run my Alpine Type X 12 in a .....


135 is a very nice number for an SQ system, Kudos to you!


eddiev9 said:
At near full volume they distort. With extra power, it'll clear up distortion and, perhaps, I can turn up the gains for them...right? 8-[

A gain is not a volume control. It is a means to match the output voltage of your HU to the input voltage on your amp. Turning your gains to a higher input voltage than is being output by your HU will cause distortion at higher volume. If you match your gains to the HU voltage and use a higher power amp, that is when you will see the improvement.

Of course this is only something I can assume as I have yet to amp any front speakers. (will be in the near future)
So SQliberty please feel very free to correct me if that answer was not correct.
 

sqliberty

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Yup, you are correct. The gains are not volume knobs like alot of people think. Gains cranked up usually leads to distortion which could lead to blown speakers. In general I think if the gains are set in between 1/4 to 1/2 you should be ok.
 

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