Fram Filters, junk???
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Powerslave
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I have always used FRAM. I used FRAM in the Avenger I had, though I used the 8A instead of the 16, it (8A) is a 50% larger filter. I am using that larger filter (FL-1A) on this Jeep. The thing is, once at operating temp; I shut down, like to go to the store? After I start the engine again, the oil light stays on for a good 10 seconds. If I am idling on a upward grade and it's at full operating temp? I hear the ding, the oil light comes on again. If I gas it up a few hundred RPMs, it goes off, while still on the upward grade. So, I will have to change it back to the stock filter ASAP... I never got an oil light with the stock filter at purchase, nor when I did the first oil change, so it has to be the larger filter doesn't have the same specs.
The OIL is full, I checked it time and time again, so it's not a low oil problem. The larger filter takes about a quart itself, once the material inside has soaked up the oil to it's saturated point. This did not happen when I got it, it did not happen when I changed the oil the first time with a stock filter. Only this 2nd time with the FL-1A filter... So, my guess is the filter specs are not the same.
In the former Avenger? The larger filter increased oil pressure and volume, I actually had a GAGE in it to see the difference between the 16 and 8A... Can't see anything with idiot lights...
Anyone else have the FL-1A installed?
The OIL is full, I checked it time and time again, so it's not a low oil problem. The larger filter takes about a quart itself, once the material inside has soaked up the oil to it's saturated point. This did not happen when I got it, it did not happen when I changed the oil the first time with a stock filter. Only this 2nd time with the FL-1A filter... So, my guess is the filter specs are not the same.
In the former Avenger? The larger filter increased oil pressure and volume, I actually had a GAGE in it to see the difference between the 16 and 8A... Can't see anything with idiot lights...
Anyone else have the FL-1A installed?
Powerslave
Banned
Sorry, but: Too bad it IS true, to a certain point: High Performace Mopar Filters were made by Fram; and were their OEM as far up as 1999.
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That is a Mopar HP filter, made my FRAM!
Mopar does use many other MFRs. I have also heard that (fram filter part) from Chrysler dealers before. Now, they are are made by Purolator, and Champion Laboratories, AND others. The Mopar part numbers are the same, but the filters can be from a different MFR. The only way to identify the manufacturer of a particular filter, is to look at the backplate, and end plate. If you see 3 - 4 - 16 on the end plate, it's a Purolator.
Here:
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LEFT is the Purolator filter, Right is a Champion filter; BOTH say Mopar!
With Mopar filters, you never know what you are going to get. I am looking for PROOF they may still use Fram as their HP source, it may take a while...
You have to realize that there are not really a bunch of oil filter MFRs out there; and, other brands are, well, other brands...
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kb0nly
Full Access Member
Yes it is true... You believe what you want, but i have seen the paperwork to prove it on a case of Mopar filters at the dealership he works for. The filters come from the Fram plant in Canada.
We cut apart a Fram and a Mopar filter side by side back when i had my Neon, the EXACT same both externally and internally, the Mopar filter even has the same stampings on the tube down the center of the filter.
They are MADE BY THE SAME COMPANY people....
Oil Filters
An oil filter gets changed often ( every oil change) and they all do the job.
If you are wheeling, then the tougher casing should be considered. (carry a spare) Nothing like a big stick or flying debris puncturing the filter. Anyone in here had one fail ?eek2.gif
I think the tougher ones are the K&N and Mobil Pure 1.
In my case, I was glad I had the K&N on. While at highway speeds, a small metal bar started bouncing, after falling off P/U truck ahead. It ended up hitting under the KJ, and quite a clunk was heard and felt. I pulled over after the impact, and sure enough it hit the oil filter, with quite the dent in side& bottom of filter. It did not collapse or puncture. I guess it was my lucky day.
I drove to the nearest garage and had them install another K&N from my spare kit.
An oil filter gets changed often ( every oil change) and they all do the job.
If you are wheeling, then the tougher casing should be considered. (carry a spare) Nothing like a big stick or flying debris puncturing the filter. Anyone in here had one fail ?eek2.gif
I think the tougher ones are the K&N and Mobil Pure 1.
In my case, I was glad I had the K&N on. While at highway speeds, a small metal bar started bouncing, after falling off P/U truck ahead. It ended up hitting under the KJ, and quite a clunk was heard and felt. I pulled over after the impact, and sure enough it hit the oil filter, with quite the dent in side& bottom of filter. It did not collapse or puncture. I guess it was my lucky day.
I drove to the nearest garage and had them install another K&N from my spare kit.
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TruLiberty
Full Access Member
thanks for that write up, i've always used Frams...so has my dad...might pick up the high end model this next time to see if i notice a performance difference
Marlon_JB2
Kombat Edition Jeep
Sounds to me like Fram *used* to make filters for Mopar, but that *no longer* seems to be the case RIGHT NOW. In which case you are both right, depending on what period we're talking about here.
And if they still do, it depends on the vehicle maybe?
And if they still do, it depends on the vehicle maybe?
kb0nly
Full Access Member
I think they still make "some" of them not "all" of them, that much i will admit. About 4 years ago i cut open a Mopar and a Fram that was the correct filter for my Neon. Of course i cut them open in their used state because i wasn't going to piss away $10 on the Mopar filter just to cut it open.
And just last month there was a guy on a PT forum i visit who cut open a brand new stock Mopar filter for his car and a brand new off the shelf Fram for it and compared and if it wasn't for the paint job you wouldn't know the difference. The interior looked exactly the same.
So maybe some of the higher end Mopar filters are made by the other brands now but the regular Mopar filters are Fram??
All i can tell you is what i learned from personal experience and that i have used Fram long enough that if a problem was going to happen it would have by now...
Powerslave
Banned
I already have proved Mopar has used Fram, they DID, as far back 1999 was the best I could find. I am going to keep my eyes open for any further proof of current use, but it is not really needed, they probably still do in some applications. Mopar does NOT make their own filters, everyone - EVERYONE else makes them for them...
I remember when Mopar MEANT something, now? Not so much...
Powerslave
Banned
Sure, I am just not sure on the pressure side. Each filter has it's own value in pressure coming back out of the filter, drain back, and bypass valve specs, and so on... My oil light NEVER came on before installing this filter. I did use the Motorcraft FL-1A. I am just trying to find the values of the OEM to FL-1A specs for a side by side comparison. If they are the same, then I got a more serious problem, to just a sending unit...
kb0nly
Full Access Member
Almost forgot, on a related note, i won a bet at a local auto parts store, i won't mention the chain name as its not their fault...
I walked into the store to get a new air filter for my KJ, the local Wal-Mart ran out of the correct Fram model i need, and they had one of those filter demonstrators, you know that thing to sell K&N filters? It has a high flow fan to suck air through the filter and then a ball that rises in a tube to show the vacuum due to airflow.
They tried pushing a K&N on me, you know the sales pitch, higher flow, more horsepower, etc... So i asked the guy, i don't know what your comparison filter is on the demonstrator as its not branded, but get me a Fram that size and we will make a bet, if the K&N has more airflow and the filtration is as good i will buy a K&N and a recharge kit, to the tune of almost $50. If it's not you give me a free Fram air filter.
He asked how are you going to test that, i told him i will go out in your parking lot, get a handful of fine gravel dust and two bottle caps, each filter gets the same measured cap full of dust and i will sprinkle it over the filter while the fan is running... This cocky counter guy said you better get your wallet ready!
So first the Fram airflow was checked and marked on the tube with tape...
Next the K&N airflow was checked and marked on the tube with tape...
Then we put in the Fram and applied the dust, yeah some of the really really fine airborne dust made it through, but no filter is 100%.
Then we put in the K&N, and yes it was properly oiled and such, and the bottom of the plexiglass airbox turned an oily dirty brown...HMM??
The guy looked at his fancy demonstrator in horror... I told him....
"Yeah, i really want to be sucking that crap into my motor all day long!"
Dude gave me the Fram air filter free and i was on my way. Two months later i was in there for something else and his K&N display was gone.
I walked into the store to get a new air filter for my KJ, the local Wal-Mart ran out of the correct Fram model i need, and they had one of those filter demonstrators, you know that thing to sell K&N filters? It has a high flow fan to suck air through the filter and then a ball that rises in a tube to show the vacuum due to airflow.
They tried pushing a K&N on me, you know the sales pitch, higher flow, more horsepower, etc... So i asked the guy, i don't know what your comparison filter is on the demonstrator as its not branded, but get me a Fram that size and we will make a bet, if the K&N has more airflow and the filtration is as good i will buy a K&N and a recharge kit, to the tune of almost $50. If it's not you give me a free Fram air filter.
He asked how are you going to test that, i told him i will go out in your parking lot, get a handful of fine gravel dust and two bottle caps, each filter gets the same measured cap full of dust and i will sprinkle it over the filter while the fan is running... This cocky counter guy said you better get your wallet ready!
So first the Fram airflow was checked and marked on the tube with tape...
Next the K&N airflow was checked and marked on the tube with tape...
Then we put in the Fram and applied the dust, yeah some of the really really fine airborne dust made it through, but no filter is 100%.
Then we put in the K&N, and yes it was properly oiled and such, and the bottom of the plexiglass airbox turned an oily dirty brown...HMM??
The guy looked at his fancy demonstrator in horror... I told him....
"Yeah, i really want to be sucking that crap into my motor all day long!"
Dude gave me the Fram air filter free and i was on my way. Two months later i was in there for something else and his K&N display was gone.
Powerslave
Banned
On my former avenger; the insides of my CAI intake tubes got the oily/dirty mess. However, I tracked it back to just about 2-3" before where I had it entering the stock intake tube; the tube section there was clean. That was a steep upward tube, total length was about 2 feet. It may not actually make it ALL the way back into the motor, and from what I saw in my tube, it didn't. I think depends on your intake tube length. I still have a section (a bend) of that old tubing, and it's still dirty/oily. My CIA on that Avenger was a true one, you could SEE it from the outside, even with a shield on. So, I was picking up whatever was on the road.... My stock intake tube, the black plastic piece, was also clean... It all depends, I think anyway...
Redbone
Full Access Member
tjkj2002's report was nice to the Fram. I read a more comprehensive report with the same conclusions but more problems reported. I decided to see for myself. I cut up a Fram and six other filters. Problems I found on the Fram:
1. Paper end cap held in place poorly. If the glue fails it would bypass. Metal on all others would not bypass.
2. Bypass valve did not seal. Hard plastic to metal contact with deformities in plastic. A small amount of oil will bypass at all times.
3. Questionable bypass spring pressure. I have no way to measure but it was smaller diameter wire leading me to do a unscientific feel test. It was noticably weaker.
4. Anti drainback valve didn't seal. I'm unsure how big a deal this would be on 3.7 due to mounting location. I won't take a chance on dry startups.
I found some other differences but at 4:00 a.m. I don't feel like going out to the shed to refresh my old mind. I haven't been to bed yet and I leave to go on vacation in 4 hours. I'll be back in 2 weeks and will check this thread.
My personal conclusion: If I'm going to put good oil, Mobil 1, in my vehicles why on earth would I put such a poorly constructed filter on them. If I ever use store brand recycle oil maybe ..... no, not even then .... nfw.
P.S. Buying Mopar filters is the same as any other private label filters. Don't do it. In most cases you don't know who actually makes them. Go with tjkj2002's posted study plus flow/filtration info. I use nothing but Purolator except in my Tractor. Nothing but John Deere in it and, yes, I cut one of those apart too.
1. Paper end cap held in place poorly. If the glue fails it would bypass. Metal on all others would not bypass.
2. Bypass valve did not seal. Hard plastic to metal contact with deformities in plastic. A small amount of oil will bypass at all times.
3. Questionable bypass spring pressure. I have no way to measure but it was smaller diameter wire leading me to do a unscientific feel test. It was noticably weaker.
4. Anti drainback valve didn't seal. I'm unsure how big a deal this would be on 3.7 due to mounting location. I won't take a chance on dry startups.
I found some other differences but at 4:00 a.m. I don't feel like going out to the shed to refresh my old mind. I haven't been to bed yet and I leave to go on vacation in 4 hours. I'll be back in 2 weeks and will check this thread.
My personal conclusion: If I'm going to put good oil, Mobil 1, in my vehicles why on earth would I put such a poorly constructed filter on them. If I ever use store brand recycle oil maybe ..... no, not even then .... nfw.
P.S. Buying Mopar filters is the same as any other private label filters. Don't do it. In most cases you don't know who actually makes them. Go with tjkj2002's posted study plus flow/filtration info. I use nothing but Purolator except in my Tractor. Nothing but John Deere in it and, yes, I cut one of those apart too.
kb0nly
Full Access Member
I don't think the drainback issue would be a problem on the KJ due to its steep filter angle. Now on the 2.4 in my wife's PT it might because the filter is pretty much horizontal.
At any rate, i'm not changing after this many years!
At any rate, i'm not changing after this many years!
Ry' N Jen
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I've always used Fram and never had any problems in any of my vehicles.
Even in my classic Mini's, which incidentally uses the same engine oil to lubricate the manual or automatic transmissions!
Never an issue!
Even in my classic Mini's, which incidentally uses the same engine oil to lubricate the manual or automatic transmissions!
Never an issue!
Powerslave
Banned
There would be little to no drain-back with the filter on the 3.7, even without valve, due to it's about 70 Degree downward angle. Gravity is to the filter, not back towards the block. The only drain back would be a cup tilts worth...
ThunderbirdJunkie
Bronze Supporter
Nevermind.
maybe? maybe not? it depends how much column pressure is on the filter? and we don't know that! mike
J-Thompson
Full Access Member
use what you want
if you have issues then it is your fault
I mean he!! it is only the engine oil who cares if it gets clean right?
That being said I have only used 1 type of filter on the TJ for the past 30K
I have also only used 2 types of oil and changed it every 5K miles
I have never had to add oil and when I change it it still looks clean
in fact cleaner than some oil I have seen people put into their cars
I only use a Wix filter ,why it is a name brand and trusted also middle of the road in price
I only use full syn. oil Mobile one or Royal Purple
I dont plan to change so dont bother disputing me on this
if you have issues then it is your fault
I mean he!! it is only the engine oil who cares if it gets clean right?
That being said I have only used 1 type of filter on the TJ for the past 30K
I have also only used 2 types of oil and changed it every 5K miles
I have never had to add oil and when I change it it still looks clean
in fact cleaner than some oil I have seen people put into their cars
I only use a Wix filter ,why it is a name brand and trusted also middle of the road in price
I only use full syn. oil Mobile one or Royal Purple
I dont plan to change so dont bother disputing me on this
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