Considering KJ purchase, seeking feedback on certain things

[papercut]

Hi guys,

I'm considering purchasing a KJ, and wanted to get some feedback from current owners.

If I do buy one, I have a couple of options. One is to get an '05 CRD 4x4 that the dealer currently has in stock (Sport model I think, with some extra options already installed). Never owned a diesel before, have no specific grudge against modern designs, so I probably wouldn't hate it. The idea of high torque and decent fuel economy is appealing. The only thing about the CRD that I don't like is it doesn't have the option for a manual transmission. (I've never owned an automatic trans vehicle before. Why start now?)

The other option is to have the dealer order a new gas model 4x4 with manual transmission. I have been told by one person, though, that the manual with the 4WD is terrible. But, I don't know what year this person was referring to--it may have been one with the 5-speed transmission. None of the nearest dealers have a manual transmission w/4WD combination on the lot, so I can't test drive one.

I will probably do some offroading from time to time, and I don't think I'll do much towing (if I towed a trailer once a year, that'd be a lot).


So, what I want to know is:

For you stick-shift people with 4WD: what year do you have and how does it drive? How difficult is shifting? Do you have any trouble offroading that makes you wish for an auto or the diesel? Do you have any trouble _on_roading that makes you wish for the auto trans?

For you auto trans people (particularly the ones with a CRD): do you have a personal preference for auto or manual? Do you wish the CRD had a manual?


Also, when I did a test drive of both the gas & diesel models (both auto trans) this weekend, when going over a certain section of highway I noticed some wheel-hop type behavior in the gas one that wasn't there in the diesel. The sales guy with me wasn't sure why that happened and didn't recall it happening in others that he'd been in during the test drive. (It was late enough in the day and I was tired enough not to want to drive another one right then.) Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on why that might have happened?

 

[Se7enLC]

Re: Considering KJ purchase, seeking feedback on certain thi

Hi guys,

I'm considering purchasing a KJ, and wanted to get some feedback from current owners.

If I do buy one, I have a couple of options. One is to get an '05 CRD 4x4 that the dealer currently has in stock (Sport model I think, with some extra options already installed). Never owned a diesel before, have no specific grudge against modern designs, so I probably wouldn't hate it. The idea of high torque and decent fuel economy is appealing. The only thing about the CRD that I don't like is it doesn't have the option for a manual transmission. (I've never owned an automatic trans vehicle before. Why start now?)

I wish they made a manual ****** CRD, too. I went with the gasoline model to get the 6-speed.

The other option is to have the dealer order a new gas model 4x4 with manual transmission. I have been told by one person, though, that the manual with the 4WD is terrible. But, I don't know what year this person was referring to--it may have been one with the 5-speed transmission. None of the nearest dealers have a manual transmission w/4WD combination on the lot, so I can't test drive one.

Not true! It's quite the opposite, actually. I think it's much more fun wheeling in a manual! There are a couple things that you have to do slightly differently / watch out for, however:

1). When you start in 4Lo, you don't need the clutch. It just starts driving. 1st gear in 4Lo is actually slower than rolling, so feathering the clutch has the OPPOSITE result that it would in normal 2wd...you push the clutch in, you speed up, you let it out, you slow down (engine braking)

2). In an automatic, there is slippage at low speeds, so auto drivers have to "give it more gas" to get over obstacles to overcome that slippage. Also, there are times when they will need to feather the brake to get the power they want. In a manual, it just drives itself - you keep a steady foot on the gas, it keeps steady power to the wheels.

3). Don't change gears in a water crossing! I haven't had this myself, but I've heard horror stories of shifting causing the transmission to take in huge gulps of water and foul things up. So just go through the water in a lower gear than you need to make sure you can get the power you need, and go slowly.

I will probably do some offroading from time to time, and I don't think I'll do much towing (if I towed a trailer once a year, that'd be a lot).

So, what I want to know is:

For you stick-shift people with 4WD: what year do you have and how does it drive? How difficult is shifting? Do you have any trouble offroading that makes you wish for an auto or the diesel? Do you have any trouble _on_roading that makes you wish for the auto trans?

I have a 2005 Renegade 4WD. Drives great on and off road. Shifting is no harder than it is in any other vehicle, and you don't have to shift much when offroad anyway. The only thing I wish I had a diesel for is the fuel economy....but with the 6-Speed, I've gotten 18-20 mpg average when I drive nicely, which isn't bad (but the 24mpg average of the CRD is appealing)

For you auto trans people (particularly the ones with a CRD): do you have a personal preference for auto or manual? Do you wish the CRD had a manual?

Also, when I did a test drive of both the gas & diesel models (both auto trans) this weekend, when going over a certain section of highway I noticed some wheel-hop type behavior in the gas one that wasn't there in the diesel. The sales guy with me wasn't sure why that happened and didn't recall it happening in others that he'd been in during the test drive. (It was late enough in the day and I was tired enough not to want to drive another one right then.) Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on why that might have happened?

Wheel Hop? Were you in 4wd?

Check www.vehix.com to find a manual transmission liberty to try out. They let you search inventory local to you and it lists the transmission type. I found a surprising number, but I'm not positive that they are all actually manual, or if they are just listed wrong.

 

[melted]

I think the high compression of the diesel enhances the auto ******. Have always preferred manual myself, but the CRD & auto is a winner.

 

[Bonehead]

Still wish mine ws a manual , but I wouldn't lose the diesel for a gas motor to get it though. The diesel motor was why I bought the KJ in the first place, and end up like it more everytime I drive it( can't wait for snow).

 

[LibertyCRD]

Still wish mine ws a manual , but I wouldn't lose the diesel for a gas motor to get it though. The diesel motor was why I bought the KJ in the first place, and end up like it more everytime I drive it( can't wait for snow).

This is EXACTLY how I felt too. I wanted the 6-speed REALLY bad. And I still think the 6-speed would enhance the CRD package. But giving up the far superior engine for a particular transmission didn't make sense to me.

Something to remember...the automatic in the CRD is different than the automatic in the V6 Liberty. The one in the V6 models is the 42RLE. I HATE it. My wife has that combo. and it drives me crazy to drive it. The torque converter acts funny and in stop/go traffic it's worse than driving a manual! It's either not moving, or you nudge the pedal and it lurches forward. I hate it. Not to mention I've heard nothing but horror stories about that ******.

The one they use in the CRD is the newer 545RFE. It's MUCH smoother and a real joy to drive. Not to mention it's stronger (taken from the Dodge Ram pickup line) and will probably last much longer.

I really wanted the manual ****** bad. But with the diesel, the automatic doesn't kill the package. It actually has it's advantages.

As far as the wheel hop you noticed... The reason for that is the V6 Liberty weighs about 200 lbs. less than the CRD. So the CRD will stay planted on the road a little better.

I agree the CRD with the 6-speed manual ****** would be IDEAL. But if I had to pick between the two options you listed....I would go with the CRD/automatic.

No offense to any 3.7L owners here. I like that engine and my wife has a '04 Libby with it. No problems with it at all so far. I just prefer diesel power. Also, keep in mind that diesel ownership is different. You must use different oils, different fuels, different driving habits to be efficient with it, let it cool down for a minute or so before shutting it off, plug it up in below freezing weather to keep the engine warm, etc. It's a different animal. The reward is more power, more resale value, savings in your checking account, and people staring at you every time you pull up to the diesel pump in your Jeep. =P~

 

[Watty]

Pity about not being able to obtain a manual CRD. I own a manual CRD with the 5-speed box though and will never go to auto (in my experience off-road driving is best undertaken where you have control over the rev's, gear to be in, etc.).

 

[Derek Mc]

The UK CRD is a 6 speed manual with 4WD only really useable in loose conditions. The CRD with Auto is far stronger with part and full time 4wd options. Noise wise I have only driven about 50 miles so far and apart from a cold start this morning once on open roads the engine settles down to a nice low level thrum the torque is awesome and at 70mph she was spinning at just under 2000rpm. Economy on the brand new engine is sitting at 27mpg and I can wholly and heart felt recommend the KJ, go diesel chum don't give it a second though, go Auto if you need a full time 4wd option over winter.

 

[CHUD]

But giving up the far superior engine for a particular transmission didn't make sense to me.

No offense to any 3.7L owners here. I like that engine and my wife has a '04 Libby with it.

I hear you LibertyCRD, but when I first read this I couldn't help but take some offense. Saying the CRD is far superior is stretching it a bit. Somewhat superior perhaps, but it's in the eye of the beholder. My 3.7 has been incredibly dependable (not 1 breakdown in 42 months), refined and adequately powerful. Luckily, my commute is very short so gas mileage is an afterthought for me. My KJ has the 45RLE which is identical to the 545RLE, just one less gear.

What sux is that the CRD is not even available to ANYONE in my state. That's such bull$h!t. Like New Jerseys diesel fumes aren't floating over my house in New York right now.

 

[papercut]

Re: Considering KJ purchase, seeking feedback on certain thi

I wish they made a manual ****** CRD, too. I went with the gasoline model to get the 6-speed.

I see we have a difference of opinion here between you and LibertyCRD. I'm just glad we have the option of going either way!

Not true! It's quite the opposite, actually. I think it's much more fun wheeling in a manual!

You don't have to convince me! \/

There are a couple things that you have to do slightly differently / watch out for, however:

1). When you start in 4Lo, you don't need the clutch. It just starts driving. 1st gear in 4Lo is actually slower than rolling, so feathering the clutch has the OPPOSITE result that it would in normal 2wd...you push the clutch in, you speed up, you let it out, you slow down (engine braking)

Actually, in some circumstances this same phenomenon happens in 2WD cars, it's just not as often or as obvious. And I've been a passenger in some off-road adventures in manual ******/4WD before, so I've seen exactly what you're talking about, but thanks for reminding me (because it's been a long time!).

3). Don't change gears in a water crossing! I haven't had this myself, but I've heard horror stories of shifting causing the transmission to take in huge gulps of water and foul things up. So just go through the water in a lower gear than you need to make sure you can get the power you need, and go slowly.

Never heard this before, so thanks for the warning!

I have a 2005 Renegade 4WD. Drives great on and off road. Shifting is no harder than it is in any other vehicle, and you don't have to shift much when offroad anyway. The only thing I wish I had a diesel for is the fuel economy....but with the 6-Speed, I've gotten 18-20 mpg average when I drive nicely, which isn't bad (but the 24mpg average of the CRD is appealing)

Glad to hear that the manual w/4WD isn't a problem. Like I said, it was only one person who said that, but it worried me just a little.

Yeah, the higher milage on the CRD is what's making this so hard. (Well, that and the extra torque and engine life and....) :-k

Wheel Hop? Were you in 4wd?

No. I didn't think to check that at the time, but I fiddled with the shifter back at the dealer's lot, and I remember that it was in 2WD when I started fiddlin'. And I'm not sure that "wheel hop" is really the right term for it, but I don't know what else to call it. I happened while I was braking. It kinda felt like the Jeep was "porposing" a little bit--not incredibly bad but enough to notice. I guess one way to describe it would be to say that maybe the front brakes were releasing before the back brakes, then the front brakes were grabbing and the back brakes releasing, affecting the pitch of the Jeep. (I'm not saying that the brakes were actually doing that, but it's just the best way I can think of to describe something that might cause the behavior.) It wasn't the ABS--I didn't feel sensation in the brake pedal, it was just the Jeep around me. And I was holding steady pressure on the brake. And it was an auto ******, so maybe the auto-clutch wasn't doing right?

 

[papercut]

I think the high compression of the diesel enhances the auto ******. Have always preferred manual myself, but the CRD & auto is a winner.

Still wish mine ws a manual , but I wouldn't lose the diesel for a gas motor to get it though. The diesel motor was why I bought the KJ in the first place, and end up like it more everytime I drive it( can't wait for snow).

I admit it drove nicely in the test drive I did. I am a little worried about the lack of horsepower at the top end, although clicking off the overdrive should help that somewhat.

Shifting was smooth and it appeared to be well-programmed to shift at appropriate points, so I give them credit for good work on it. And, since the auto transmission in the CRD appears to be heavier duty than the auto they're putting in the gas engine models, it should hold up well. =D>

If I had plans to do a lot of towing or carrying heavy cargo, then it'd be a no-brainer--the CRD would win. But I don't forsee having to do that, hence my dilemma. ](*,)

 

[2003KJ]

How many miles were on this KJ when you were driving it and noticed the "wheel hop" like syndromes? Vehicles can do some crazy things before stuff like brakes, clutches and what not get the slightest bit broken in. The one I test drove at my dealer had all of 2 miles on it, and that was just from moving it around the lot and on and off trucks, and it did some funky stuff when I drove it. The one I purchased, I had driven in from the next town, and it was their main test drive KJ....so it had slightly higher milage on it, plus the 20 mile drive over to our dealer, made for a grand total of 50 miles on it when I picked her up, not to bad if you ask me.

 

[Pnorton]

I admit it drove nicely in the test drive I did. I am a little worried about the lack of horsepower at the top end, although clicking off the overdrive should help that somewhat

I live in Utah and often drive up our canyons. I-80 from Salt Lake City to Park City gets quite steep and the CRD has no problem keeping up and even passing a lot of vehicles that struggle to keep up the speed. I have had no trouble at the high end. 160 hp is not that bad, I've had worse in gas engines.

 

[gsbrockman]

Re: Considering KJ purchase, seeking feedback on certain thi

For you auto trans people (particularly the ones with a CRD): do you have a personal preference for auto or manual? Do you wish the CRD had a manual?

I own a 2003 Dodge RAM 2500 Crew Cab w/H-O CTD and NV5600 six speed ( http://kydtr.com/iboard/index.php?showuser=27 )and the 2005 Liberty Limited 4x4 CRD. The 545RFE is a great trans with the CRD.......winds up fast, builds boost almost immediately, bangs off a gear, then does it all over again (4 more times plus torque convertor lockup). No boost / momentum lost between shifts with the auto in the CRD....now the CTD is a bit different, but it's a TRUCK and can easily tow 150 lbs shy of 6.5 tons, too. I'd personally never own a manual trans with a CRD. Hop behind the wheel of a CRD w/545RFE, 3.73 l/s axle and you'll see what I mean. IMO, a manual transmission would be step in the wrong direction with a Liberty CRD.
The CRD is short on hp, but the superior low rpm torque is where it's at.

Greg